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BBallFreak wrote:I'm going to pretty happily pass for Miami. I didn't want him by the end of the offseason and he's done nothing to change my mind now, especially when we got Dame-lite for so much younger...err, cheaper...

Who on the Heat is Dame lite?

I’ve said it before, but I think it’s highly likely(bordering on necessary) that the Pels get folded into any Giannis trade.

I assume a Giannis trade doesn’t happen this offseason, but Pels own Bucks ‘25 (5-31 protected), ‘26 swap and ‘27 1st unprotected.

Milwaukee is as bad of a market for free agency as New Orleans once Giannis is gone. The only path to success for a small market like us is to max your odds at getting an elite talent by winning the lottery. The easiest way to do that is with your own picks.

Euphonetiks wrote:I’ve said it before, but I think it’s highly likely(bordering on necessary) that the Pels get folded into any Giannis trade.

I assume a Giannis trade doesn’t happen this offseason, but Pels own Bucks ‘25 (5-31 protected), ‘26 swap and ‘27 1st unprotected.

Milwaukee is as bad of a market for free agency as New Orleans once Giannis is gone. The only path to success for a small market like us is to max your odds at getting an elite talent by winning the lottery. The easiest way to do that is with your own picks.

Except never in league history has a team said we must get our own picks back to do X or Y.

And why? Because if you are worried about your own picks that much, what you are saying is we are going to be a bottom 5 team for the next 3 years and no team is willing to say that. Because even if you are the 8th worst team in the league, its just not that big a loss to lose those picks. That gets badly overvalued here.

It's a trope thats super popular here, but I feel like its just not a thing.

If a team is picking 4th or 5th and their board is pretty flat after No. 3, then this is doable, but unless the Jazz have a very specific player in mind, they are still at a place where they should be taking as many swings as possible.

I'd be surprised if this moves the needle for the Bucks and there's a good case to be made that teams just entering a rebuilding would prefer a as many firsts as possible to a three position jump. The jump has as much value as the specific player assigned to it.

Texas Chuck wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I'm going to pretty happily pass for Miami. I didn't want him by the end of the offseason and he's done nothing to change my mind now, especially when we got Dame-lite for so much younger...err, cheaper...

Who on the Heat is Dame lite?

Terry Rozier.
23.2 ppg
45.9% shooting
35.8% three point
3.9 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.1 steals

Dame Lilard
24.3 ppg
42.4 % shooting
35.4% three point
4.4 rebounds
7.0 assists
1.0 steals

I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

BBallFreak wrote:I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

I'm not telling anyone they should do anything. But I don't think Rozier is the same kind of player as Dame even if in a short sample size we can compare their stats favorably.

Texas Chuck wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

I'm not telling anyone they should do anything. But I don't think Rozier is the same kind of player as Dame even if in a short sample size we can compare their stats favorably.

Roziers numbers kind of fell back to earth too after the trade fwiw. I think dame has another gear in him esp if going to a destination he prefers, but i could be wrong.

Godaddycurse wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

I'm not telling anyone they should do anything. But I don't think Rozier is the same kind of player as Dame even if in a short sample size we can compare their stats favorably.

Roziers numbers kind of fell back to earth too after the trade fwiw. I think dame has another gear in him esp if going to a destination he prefers, but i could be wrong.

Rozier's numbers went down after the trade, it's true, but then they bounced back. He's been a very valuable player for us.

As for Dame, when you're trading for a guy his age and with his contact, you don't trade for the idea that he might have another gear if he gets to the place he really wants to go. That's a terrible way to do business. Thus, the only way we take him is if we get him at a price that's worth it to us. Giving up two starting caliber shooting guards and future picks only to put him next to Rozier, seems like it's not worth it to me. In other words, the pieces aren't fitting right in that trade.

To me, Miami's obvious play is to trade Herro and those picks for an upgrade to the frontcourt. We have plenty of depth at guard, but we could really use some help behind Bam. Jovic is nice and Love is a great reserve but we need that guy who makes Bam's life easier.

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I'm going to pretty happily pass for Miami. I didn't want him by the end of the offseason and he's done nothing to change my mind now, especially when we got Dame-lite for so much younger...err, cheaper...

Who on the Heat is Dame lite?

Terry Rozier.
23.2 ppg
45.9% shooting
35.8% three point
3.9 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.1 steals

Dame Lilard
24.3 ppg
42.4 % shooting
35.4% three point
4.4 rebounds
7.0 assists
1.0 steals

I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

So Lillard's stats get shown from his current good team, and Rozier gets his stats shown from his previous bad team? I would be shocked if Lillard went to Miami and put up Rozier's current numbers.

Myth wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:
Who on the Heat is Dame lite?

Terry Rozier.
23.2 ppg
45.9% shooting
35.8% three point
3.9 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.1 steals

Dame Lilard
24.3 ppg
42.4 % shooting
35.4% three point
4.4 rebounds
7.0 assists
1.0 steals

I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

So Lillard's stats get shown from his current good team, and Rozier gets his stats shown from his previous bad team? I would be shocked if Lillard went to Miami and put up Rozier's current numbers.

The point wasn't that they're the same guy but that they're similar. I even said he wasn't as good.

Either way, we're happy with our guy.

But my point is they aren't actually similar as players. I mean they are both smaller guards. But that's so superficial as to be of no merit. Again, not asking you to want to pay for an aging Dame if you don't believe in him. But he's simply been a superstar player driving the offenses of the teams he's played on often to pretty solid success. Rozier has only done this on terrible teams with no interest in winning. Any time he's been on a solid team, he's played a different role playing off of superstars. And because he put up some numbers on a Hornets team with little else at all doesn't remotely mean he's a player anything like Dame.

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I'm going to pretty happily pass for Miami. I didn't want him by the end of the offseason and he's done nothing to change my mind now, especially when we got Dame-lite for so much younger...err, cheaper...

Who on the Heat is Dame lite?

Terry Rozier.
23.2 ppg
45.9% shooting
35.8% three point
3.9 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.1 steals

Dame Lilard
24.3 ppg
42.4 % shooting
35.4% three point
4.4 rebounds
7.0 assists
1.0 steals

I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

Why use only Rozier Charlotte stats?

They are nowhere close to similar players. That’s asinine analysis.

For the season Terry has a .555 TS%, 3.9 win shares and 1.5 BPM. Lilliard has a .590 TS%, 7.7 win shares and 2.1 BPM.

I can understand not wanting to trade for Lilliard for various reason but Rozier is nowhere near the player. Not even near lite.

I do hate you lol.
But it’s a pretty creative trade and values aren’t that absurd.
I do think it would be hard to find Team x willing to trade down, but if a team thinks they can get the player they want at 8 maybe?
I also can’t see Milwaukee totally blowing it up like this. That would be wild!!! I think they would not want a pick in this years draft as the centerpiece though. Would need a couple picks that has good likely hood of being top 5 in 2025 and 2026. Those are likely good drafts at the top.
I personally don’t love Miami going for Dame but maybe they think one last shot with Bulter/ Dame / Bam is worth it. I think Miami is giving too much for Dame in this trade. I applaud the creativity though.

brackdan70 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:
Who on the Heat is Dame lite?

Terry Rozier.
23.2 ppg
45.9% shooting
35.8% three point
3.9 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.1 steals

Dame Lilard
24.3 ppg
42.4 % shooting
35.4% three point
4.4 rebounds
7.0 assists
1.0 steals

I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

Why use only Rozier Charlotte stats?

They are nowhere close to similar players. That’s asinine analysis.

For the season Terry has a .555 TS%, 3.9 win shares and 1.5 BPM. Lilliard has a .590 TS%, 7.7 win shares and 2.1 BPM.

I can understand not wanting to trade for Lilliard for various reason but Rozier is nowhere near the player. Not even near lite.

My lord, do I really need to keep doing this?

I'm going to retract the statement because I'm already tired of defending it. I already said he wasn't as good as Dame. Said it in that post, specifically. The point was that we're already getting strong point guard play from someone who costs half the money and is 3 years younger!

The assets are better spent elsewhere. That should be obvious.

BBallFreak wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:Terry Rozier.
23.2 ppg
45.9% shooting
35.8% three point
3.9 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.1 steals

Dame Lilard
24.3 ppg
42.4 % shooting
35.4% three point
4.4 rebounds
7.0 assists
1.0 steals

I'm not saying he's as good, but you can't look at the stats and tell me that this version of Dame is so far above Rozier that we should give up more assets.

Why use only Rozier Charlotte stats?

They are nowhere close to similar players. That’s asinine analysis.

For the season Terry has a .555 TS%, 3.9 win shares and 1.5 BPM. Lilliard has a .590 TS%, 7.7 win shares and 2.1 BPM.

I can understand not wanting to trade for Lilliard for various reason but Rozier is nowhere near the player. Not even near lite.

My lord, do I really need to keep doing this?

I'm going to retract the statement because I'm already tired of defending it. I already said he wasn't as good as Dame. Said it in that post, specifically. The point was that we're already getting strong point guard play from someone who costs half the money and is 3 years younger!

The assets are better spent elsewhere. That should be obvious.

Well you did make the comparison and called him Dame lite, and cherry picked stats to make it look like Rozier was closer than he is.
I agree that Miami shouldn’t be making that trade…. But the presence of a very pedestrian player in Rozier wouldn’t really be my rational.

brackdan70 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:Why use only Rozier Charlotte stats?

They are nowhere close to similar players. That’s asinine analysis.

For the season Terry has a .555 TS%, 3.9 win shares and 1.5 BPM. Lilliard has a .590 TS%, 7.7 win shares and 2.1 BPM.

I can understand not wanting to trade for Lilliard for various reason but Rozier is nowhere near the player. Not even near lite.

My lord, do I really need to keep doing this?

I'm going to retract the statement because I'm already tired of defending it. I already said he wasn't as good as Dame. Said it in that post, specifically. The point was that we're already getting strong point guard play from someone who costs half the money and is 3 years younger!

The assets are better spent elsewhere. That should be obvious.

Well you did make the comparison and called him Dame lite, and cherry picked stats to make it look like Rozier was closer than he is.
I agree that Miami shouldn’t be making that trade…. But the presence of a very pedestrian player in Rozier wouldn’t really be my rational.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree on Rozier. I love his game. I think he's a great fit with us.

BBallFreak wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:My lord, do I really need to keep doing this?

I'm going to retract the statement because I'm already tired of defending it. I already said he wasn't as good as Dame. Said it in that post, specifically. The point was that we're already getting strong point guard play from someone who costs half the money and is 3 years younger!

The assets are better spent elsewhere. That should be obvious.

Well you did make the comparison and called him Dame lite, and cherry picked stats to make it look like Rozier was closer than he is.
I agree that Miami shouldn’t be making that trade…. But the presence of a very pedestrian player in Rozier wouldn’t really be my rational.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree on Rozier. I love his game. I think he's a great fit with us.

Fair enough. I’d like to see if you feel that way at the end of next season.