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Wolveswin wrote:

Residual-Heat wrote:

kds92 wrote:Hartenstein's a little overboard at 30 mil, but totally agree on Claxton. Adding Simons and Claxton to this team would do wonders.

Honestly between Hartenstein and Claxton, Im not sure who is the better player. I think Hartenstein was great this season, while Claxton didnt have his best season. I think 30 mill/yr is an overpay for either of them.

You know who Magic can trade for when free agent dreams are crushed…Ayton.

Both of them are UFA, but even if they get neither.. They will spend that money on a guard, and keep WCJ and still have a great season. The Magic have to spend money. They are too under the cap.

giberish wrote:I think it's been obvious all year that Orlando needs to add at least one and preferably two guards who can shoot (accurately) and score. Ideally a PG or at least combo guard, but also someone who doesn't completely dominate the ball so Paolo and Franz are still involved in the offense. A young Steph Curry would be ideal but he's not available so Orlando will have to choose among options with various flaws and limitations (at least there are a bunch of plausibly available options). If they get two guys than one should have enough size to play some SF minutes.

There's also a center decision to be made. If they view Goga as their starting center then resigning him shouldn't be too hard but there may not be enough minutes to justify keeping WCJ (with Gogo/Paolo/Isaac as the primary PF/C options). He could return some assets to help in acquiring guard(s). If they view WCJ as their starting center than keeping Goga could be an issue as another team could offer him low-end starting money.

Goga got like 5 minutes in a 7 game series. I'd be surprised if he was a primary concern for the Magic. WCJ is a better than average starting center. Mo Wagner is a good backup. Isaac can play spot minutes at the 5. Center is their deepest position

We need a guard that pairs with Suggs better than Gary Harris does while AB develops. Whether they are a PG, SG, or combo guard, we need to add a shooter to take some of the pressure off Paolo and Franz. Players that come to mind but in no particular order; Murray, Monk, Brogdon, Herro, Simons, Schroder, DLO, Sexton, CJ. I wish we would have grabbed Brunson. I wanted to draft him. I'd like to keep Goga if we can.

jbk1234 wrote:

giberish wrote:I think it's been obvious all year that Orlando needs to add at least one and preferably two guards who can shoot (accurately) and score. Ideally a PG or at least combo guard, but also someone who doesn't completely dominate the ball so Paolo and Franz are still involved in the offense. A young Steph Curry would be ideal but he's not available so Orlando will have to choose among options with various flaws and limitations (at least there are a bunch of plausibly available options). If they get two guys than one should have enough size to play some SF minutes.

There's also a center decision to be made. If they view Goga as their starting center then resigning him shouldn't be too hard but there may not be enough minutes to justify keeping WCJ (with Gogo/Paolo/Isaac as the primary PF/C options). He could return some assets to help in acquiring guard(s). If they view WCJ as their starting center than keeping Goga could be an issue as another team could offer him low-end starting money.

Goga got like 5 minutes in a 7 game series. I'd be surprised if he was a primary concern for the Magic. WCJ is a better than average starting center. Mo Wagner is a good backup. Isaac can play spot minutes at the 5. Center is their deepest position

bad memory on my part. I thought Goga started early in the series but that was Isaac. I know at times this year he was starting and WCJ seemed like the odd man out but it switched back and forth.

zimpy27 wrote:I like Sexton+Kessler for the Magic.

WCJ+FRP probably does it. Lauri, Collins, WCJ is a better fitting 3-5.

Our defense would be even worse with WCJ instead of Kessler, and he's also a fully realized player whereas Walker might not be. Hard pass. A first (or maybe a little more) for Sexton could be interesting, though. I'd do Clarkson and 32 for WCJ, he'd make for a decent minutes split.

zimpy27 wrote:I like Sexton+Kessler for the Magic.

WCJ+FRP probably does it. Lauri, Collins, WCJ is a better fitting 3-5.

I like Kesseler. Saw the potential even when he was at UNC backing up Bacot lol

WCJ + FRP is fine if that's all it takes.

babyjax13 wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:I like Sexton+Kessler for the Magic.

WCJ+FRP probably does it. Lauri, Collins, WCJ is a better fitting 3-5.

Our defense would be even worse with WCJ instead of Kessler, and he's also a fully realized player whereas Walker might not be. Hard pass. A first (or maybe a little more) for Sexton could be interesting, though. I'd do Clarkson and 32 for WCJ, he'd make for a decent minutes split.

Kessler+Sexton would be the deal..

Does it take more FRP with WCJ?

BK_2020 wrote:Unironically take a chance on Beal and Ayton. It's not like they have anything to lose. WCJ is a backup at best. At least Ayton has the tools. Send out Anthony, Isaac, and Mo.
Payroll should be manageable going forward even after Franz and Paolo get their 2nd contracts since neither is likely to get the 30% max

Absolutely ridiculous..."not like they have anything to lose"? Their core is under 22 years old and they just took a CLE team to 7 games from a 5th seeding.

Beal and Ayton might be the worst adds they could make, they have 2 big extensions to negotiate this summer and Paolo will get a max extension after 3 seconds of negotiation next summer. Isaac will be expiring next summer too and he has shown that, when healthy, even in limited minutes, he's as disruptive as any defender in the league and a viable DPOY candidate if he can handle more minutes next season.

Beal has been overrated his entire career. He's really good, but that contract might be the most untrade-able in the NBA. Ayton is so potentially awesome, but has been extremely disappointing, particularly on the defensive end, which is the only end ORL really needs an upgrade at C. Either one of these guys would be management fiscal and chemistry malpractice.

I DO agree that Lead Guard who can shoot and a rim-protecting C WOULD be the areas to address, but at the opposite end of the value spectrum from Beal and Ayton.

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:Unironically take a chance on Beal and Ayton. It's not like they have anything to lose. WCJ is a backup at best. At least Ayton has the tools. Send out Anthony, Isaac, and Mo.
Payroll should be manageable going forward even after Franz and Paolo get their 2nd contracts since neither is likely to get the 30% max

Absolutely ridiculous..."not like they have anything to lose"? Their core is under 22 years old and they just took a CLE team to 7 games from a 5th seeding.

Beal and Ayton might be the worst adds they could make, they have 2 big extensions to negotiate this summer and Paolo will get a max extension after 3 seconds of negotiation next summer. Isaac will be expiring next summer too and he has shown that, when healthy, even in limited minutes, he's as disruptive as any defender in the league and a viable DPOY candidate if he can handle more minutes next season.

Beal has been overrated his entire career. He's really good, but that contract might be the most untrade-able in the NBA. Ayton is so potentially awesome, but has been extremely disappointing, particularly on the defensive end, which is the only end ORL really needs an upgrade at C. Either one of these guys would be management fiscal and chemistry malpractice.

I DO agree that Lead Guard who can shoot and a rim-protecting C WOULD be the areas to address, but at the opposite end of the value spectrum from Beal and Ayton.

I'm just looking at Beal and Ayton as two very easily attainable upside gamble pieces. They would be costly but, as I mentioned, the Magic can absorb that cost even after Franz's and Banchero's extension at 50% of the cap. Someone like Simons or Poole will be cheaper but better to pay for potential upside than a known mid.

First glaring priority is a Lead Guard who can spread the floor for the big forwards and, ideally, initiate the offense sometimes.
My first choice is Dejounte Murray, who's the only one I see that would improve an intense ORL defense at the same time as the obvious offensive boost. He and Suggs would be a frightening POA duo. ORL has lots of cap space and picks, but not much of an offering of win-now players that ATL might demand. Maybe a three-way with a team that values picks. My second choice is Anfernee Simons, who happens to be on a team that's both rebuilding and way over the salary cap. My third is Malik Monk, who has had a fantastic run in SAC, but they are capped in what they can offer him and, imo, none of the other cap space teams would offer the same fit and opportunity. My fallback choice would be Brogdon, as a less costly, but age-limited solution. Brogdon is actually a really good basketball fit, but his age and injury history make him kind of a placeholder.

Wendell Carter is a very solid and versatile (and young) two-way player, but he's not an ideal fit between Paolo & Franz. I would be happy to keep Carter as a reserve at 4/5, but generally consider him to be ORL's best trade chip...Ideally, a solid switchable defender and rebounder (on both ends) like Claxton or Hartenstein would be better fits. I really wanted to steal Gafford for a late frp like DAL did. ORL shouldn't overpay, but both of them are UFA's and NYK's (like SAC with Monk) are limited in what they can offer Hartenstein (so SnT isn't even an option for them).

Assuming ORL is able to send out some salary for their Lead Guard, they should still have enough salary space left the replace guys like Ingles, Harris, Okeke, Bitadze and Fultz (all UFA's or Team Options) with better vet role players. ORL should now be seen as a more attractive FA destination with an ascending team, solid coach and defensive identity, no state taxes and warm winters.

THIS summer is the time to strike. ORL's (agonizingly patient) FO has put themselves in great position financially and asset-wise to make a big swing this summer - before the big rookie extensions hit. Their needs are glaringly obvious and their success, in spite of it, has got to be generating interest around the league...there's a significant role that needs filling in a very attractive situation.

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:Unironically take a chance on Beal and Ayton. It's not like they have anything to lose. WCJ is a backup at best. At least Ayton has the tools. Send out Anthony, Isaac, and Mo.
Payroll should be manageable going forward even after Franz and Paolo get their 2nd contracts since neither is likely to get the 30% max

Absolutely ridiculous..."not like they have anything to lose"? Their core is under 22 years old and they just took a CLE team to 7 games from a 5th seeding.

Beal and Ayton might be the worst adds they could make, they have 2 big extensions to negotiate this summer and Paolo will get a max extension after 3 seconds of negotiation next summer. Isaac will be expiring next summer too and he has shown that, when healthy, even in limited minutes, he's as disruptive as any defender in the league and a viable DPOY candidate if he can handle more minutes next season.

Beal has been overrated his entire career. He's really good, but that contract might be the most untrade-able in the NBA. Ayton is so potentially awesome, but has been extremely disappointing, particularly on the defensive end, which is the only end ORL really needs an upgrade at C. Either one of these guys would be management fiscal and chemistry malpractice.

I DO agree that Lead Guard who can shoot and a rim-protecting C WOULD be the areas to address, but at the opposite end of the value spectrum from Beal and Ayton.

I'm just looking at Beal and Ayton as two very easily attainable upside gamble pieces. They would be costly but, as I mentioned, the Magic can absorb that cost even after Franz's and Banchero's extension at 50% of the cap. Someone like Simons or Poole will be cheaper but better to pay for potential upside than a known mid.

I really hope "easily attainable" isn't the priority this summer

....both of those players are among the deepest negative-values in the league, along with Zach Lavine. I'm generally optimistic, so maybe I could be convinced that Ayton just hasn't been in the right environment - he's still young, agile, and enormous...but he just hasn't done anything but score. Last thing ORL needs is another frontcourt player demanding touches while the backcourt is Suggs and some vet min guys or unproven draft picks. He doesn't rebound or protect the rim any better than WCJ (at 25% of the price) and WCJ is far more versatile on the offensive end (he can shoot 3's). I'm such a fan of Simons that I'd listen to some kind of deep discount on Simons to take Ayton off their payroll...honestly, I'd prefer Time Lord, with all of his injury history, as a bet than Ayton.

Beal is just...No. An even bigger NO than Lavine. PHX is stuck there. He can still help them, but NO.

Skybox wrote:First glaring priority is a Lead Guard who can spread the floor for the big forwards and, ideally, initiate the offense sometimes.
My first choice is Dejounte Murray, who's the only one I see that would improve an intense ORL defense at the same time as the obvious offensive boost. He and Suggs would be a frightening POA duo. ORL has lots of cap space and picks, but not much of an offering of win-now players that ATL might demand. Maybe a three-way with a team that values picks. My second choice is Anfernee Simons, who happens to be on a team that's both rebuilding and way over the salary cap. My third is Malik Monk, who has had a fantastic run in SAC, but they are capped in what they can offer him and, imo, none of the other cap space teams would offer the same fit and opportunity. My fallback choice would be Brogdon, as a less costly, but age-limited solution. Brogdon is actually a really good basketball fit, but his age and injury history make him kind of a placeholder.

Wendell Carter is a very solid and versatile (and young) two-way player, but he's not an ideal fit between Paolo & Franz. I would be happy to keep Carter as a reserve at 4/5, but generally consider him to be ORL's best trade chip...Ideally, a solid switchable defender and rebounder (on both ends) like Claxton or Hartenstein would be better fits. I really wanted to steal Gafford for a late frp like DAL did. ORL shouldn't overpay, but both of them are UFA's and NYK's (like SAC with Monk) are limited in what they can offer Hartenstein (so SnT isn't even an option for them).

Assuming ORL is able to send out some salary for their Lead Guard, they should still have enough salary space left the replace guys like Ingles, Harris, Okeke, Bitadze and Fultz (all UFA's or Team Options) with better vet role players. ORL should now be seen as a more attractive FA destination with an ascending team, solid coach and defensive identity, no state taxes and warm winters.

THIS summer is the time to strike. ORL's (agonizingly patient) FO has put themselves in great position financially and asset-wise to make a big swing this summer - before the big rookie extensions hit. Their needs are glaringly obvious and their success, in spite of it, has got to be generating interest around the league...there's a significant role that needs filling in a very attractive situation.

Expanding on Brogdon - nothing wrong with a low cost (in terms of assets plus 1 year contract) placeholder. For a developing team, a veteran point guard can pay dividends in terms of player development. I know the main goal is to find a co-star at guard to pair with Palo long term. But if you can’t, this isn’t a bad option.

I think a bigger question is - is Jalen Suggs a point guard or shooting guard going forward? He has enough size to play either guard slot, and he shot 39% from 3 on 5 attempts this year, so he can play anywhere. But is best suited long term paired with a primary playmaker or another combo guard?

R-DAWG wrote:

Skybox wrote:First glaring priority is a Lead Guard who can spread the floor for the big forwards and, ideally, initiate the offense sometimes.
My first choice is Dejounte Murray, who's the only one I see that would improve an intense ORL defense at the same time as the obvious offensive boost. He and Suggs would be a frightening POA duo. ORL has lots of cap space and picks, but not much of an offering of win-now players that ATL might demand. Maybe a three-way with a team that values picks. My second choice is Anfernee Simons, who happens to be on a team that's both rebuilding and way over the salary cap. My third is Malik Monk, who has had a fantastic run in SAC, but they are capped in what they can offer him and, imo, none of the other cap space teams would offer the same fit and opportunity. My fallback choice would be Brogdon, as a less costly, but age-limited solution. Brogdon is actually a really good basketball fit, but his age and injury history make him kind of a placeholder.

Wendell Carter is a very solid and versatile (and young) two-way player, but he's not an ideal fit between Paolo & Franz. I would be happy to keep Carter as a reserve at 4/5, but generally consider him to be ORL's best trade chip...Ideally, a solid switchable defender and rebounder (on both ends) like Claxton or Hartenstein would be better fits. I really wanted to steal Gafford for a late frp like DAL did. ORL shouldn't overpay, but both of them are UFA's and NYK's (like SAC with Monk) are limited in what they can offer Hartenstein (so SnT isn't even an option for them).

Assuming ORL is able to send out some salary for their Lead Guard, they should still have enough salary space left the replace guys like Ingles, Harris, Okeke, Bitadze and Fultz (all UFA's or Team Options) with better vet role players. ORL should now be seen as a more attractive FA destination with an ascending team, solid coach and defensive identity, no state taxes and warm winters.

THIS summer is the time to strike. ORL's (agonizingly patient) FO has put themselves in great position financially and asset-wise to make a big swing this summer - before the big rookie extensions hit. Their needs are glaringly obvious and their success, in spite of it, has got to be generating interest around the league...there's a significant role that needs filling in a very attractive situation.

Expanding on Brogdon - nothing wrong with a low cost (in terms of assets plus 1 year contract) placeholder. For a developing team, a veteran point guard can pay dividends in terms of player development. I know the main goal is to find a co-star at guard to pair with Palo long term. But if you can’t, this isn’t a bad option.


I think a bigger question is - is Jalen Suggs a point guard or shooting guard going forward? He has enough size to play either guard slot, and he shot 39% from 3 on 5 attempts this year, so he can play anywhere. But is best suited long term paired with a primary playmaker or another combo guard?

I like Brogdon for sure...just hope they're aiming higher...Suggs is not a PG, many thought he was or wish he was - but "Combo Guard" is even somewhat generous. He's got a terribly loose handle and not much of an offensive creator for others. Great player, but not a PG...I see him as basically a smaller, even more intense OG Anunoby. 3&D, physical, fierce DPOY candidate and he had a really good year shooting (which I admit I wasn't expecting).

What about McCollum, he is an excellent shooter, he also brings that experience and he only has 2 years left...Mccollum for WCJ... NOP gets a center that can shoot, which should be a compliment to Zion and save a few million to pay Murphy... Magic could select a center where they project (Edey/Ware) and bring back Goga in a larger role

Astaluego wrote:What about McCollum, he is an excellent shooter, he also brings that experience and he only has 2 years left...Mccollum for WCJ... NOP gets a center that can shoot, which should be a compliment to Zion and save a few million to pay Murphy... Magic could select a center where they project (Edey/Ware) and bring back Goga in a larger role

I can see New Orleans moving McCollum as part of a larger trade utilizing his salary slot, at which point being able to move him into cap space/expiring deals with little cost could be mutually beneficial. I think WCJ is too big a cost here TBH.

Whether it's Brogdon or McCollum or a similar type of player, nothing wrong with threading the needle of upgrading in the short term at a low cost while remaining in position to make a big splash long term.

Skybox wrote:

R-DAWG wrote:

Skybox wrote:First glaring priority is a Lead Guard who can spread the floor for the big forwards and, ideally, initiate the offense sometimes.
My first choice is Dejounte Murray, who's the only one I see that would improve an intense ORL defense at the same time as the obvious offensive boost. He and Suggs would be a frightening POA duo. ORL has lots of cap space and picks, but not much of an offering of win-now players that ATL might demand. Maybe a three-way with a team that values picks. My second choice is Anfernee Simons, who happens to be on a team that's both rebuilding and way over the salary cap. My third is Malik Monk, who has had a fantastic run in SAC, but they are capped in what they can offer him and, imo, none of the other cap space teams would offer the same fit and opportunity. My fallback choice would be Brogdon, as a less costly, but age-limited solution. Brogdon is actually a really good basketball fit, but his age and injury history make him kind of a placeholder.

Wendell Carter is a very solid and versatile (and young) two-way player, but he's not an ideal fit between Paolo & Franz. I would be happy to keep Carter as a reserve at 4/5, but generally consider him to be ORL's best trade chip...Ideally, a solid switchable defender and rebounder (on both ends) like Claxton or Hartenstein would be better fits. I really wanted to steal Gafford for a late frp like DAL did. ORL shouldn't overpay, but both of them are UFA's and NYK's (like SAC with Monk) are limited in what they can offer Hartenstein (so SnT isn't even an option for them).

Assuming ORL is able to send out some salary for their Lead Guard, they should still have enough salary space left the replace guys like Ingles, Harris, Okeke, Bitadze and Fultz (all UFA's or Team Options) with better vet role players. ORL should now be seen as a more attractive FA destination with an ascending team, solid coach and defensive identity, no state taxes and warm winters.

THIS summer is the time to strike. ORL's (agonizingly patient) FO has put themselves in great position financially and asset-wise to make a big swing this summer - before the big rookie extensions hit. Their needs are glaringly obvious and their success, in spite of it, has got to be generating interest around the league...there's a significant role that needs filling in a very attractive situation.

Expanding on Brogdon - nothing wrong with a low cost (in terms of assets plus 1 year contract) placeholder. For a developing team, a veteran point guard can pay dividends in terms of player development. I know the main goal is to find a co-star at guard to pair with Palo long term. But if you can’t, this isn’t a bad option.


I think a bigger question is - is Jalen Suggs a point guard or shooting guard going forward? He has enough size to play either guard slot, and he shot 39% from 3 on 5 attempts this year, so he can play anywhere. But is best suited long term paired with a primary playmaker or another combo guard?

I like Brogdon for sure...just hope they're aiming higher...Suggs is not a PG, many thought he was or wish he was - but "Combo Guard" is even somewhat generous. He's got a terribly loose handle and not much of an offensive creator for others. Great player, but not a PG...I see him as basically a smaller, even more intense OG Anunoby. 3&D, physical, fierce DPOY candidate and he had a really good year shooting (which I admit I wasn't expecting).

Marcus Smart with a more consistent shot is also a good comparison here - especially if he's less prone to heat checks. If he can replicate this seasons 39% shooting on 3 attempts per game, your talking about the top 3 and D wing in the league. Might not have been what you were hoping for when drafting him where you did, but as long as his extension is based on elite 3 and D upside and not something else, he's a glue piece for a long time.

I think high level Suggs and Franz are ideally your #3A and #3B type of players. The long term goal is to get a co-star to run with Palo. This, of course, is the hardest thing to find.

We desperately need 3pt shooting and half-court playmaking. Orlando has the cap space after all Fultz, Gary, Chuma, and possible iNgles coming off the books. We will try to address those needs in free agency as one of few teams that has the cap.

I expect the FO to go hard on Malik Monk as he fits this team almost perfectly. Prob outbid the Kings with something like 4 years 90mil up to 100 for years. Orlando was interested in a similar type of player earlier in Qucikley before TOR outbid us.

If we miss out in free agency then the contingency plan is gonna be prob someone like Simons or Sexton.

OrlandoDream wrote:We desperately need 3pt shooting and half-court playmaking. Orlando has the cap space after all Fultz, Gary, Chuma, and possible iNgles coming off the books. We will try to address those needs in free agency as one of few teams that has the cap.

I expect the FO to go hard on Malik Monk as he fits this team almost perfectly. Prob outbid the Kings with something like 4 years 90mil up to 100 for years. Orlando was interested in a similar type of player earlier in Qucikley before TOR outbid us.

If we miss out in free agency then the contingency plan is gonna be prob someone like Simons or Sexton.

"that has the cap" sounds serious

Toronto didn't outbid Orlando, NY just coveted OG the most. Good thing too, after OKC jumped over Toronto in the draft to nab Wallace. Monk would be solid but after watching Sac become stagnant, I'm sure they will do what they need to to keep him. He's also besties with Fox since high school, so they seem to have the inroads to keep him.

TBH before the lackluster year from GTJ, I had figured he was going to Orlando. Him or OG, who would be perfect anywhere lol.

I haven't watched as much Magic this season, would Murray fit? Trade Black couple picks and absorb the balance?
Murray, Suggs, Wagner, Paolo, WCJ

Does Orlando have enough cap room to go after Klay and Monk?

docholliday99 wrote:

OrlandoDream wrote:We desperately need 3pt shooting and half-court playmaking. Orlando has the cap space after all Fultz, Gary, Chuma, and possible iNgles coming off the books. We will try to address those needs in free agency as one of few teams that has the cap.

I expect the FO to go hard on Malik Monk as he fits this team almost perfectly. Prob outbid the Kings with something like 4 years 90mil up to 100 for years. Orlando was interested in a similar type of player earlier in Qucikley before TOR outbid us.

If we miss out in free agency then the contingency plan is gonna be prob someone like Simons or Sexton.

"that has the cap" sounds serious

Toronto didn't outbid Orlando, NY just coveted OG the most. Good thing too, after OKC jumped over Toronto in the draft to nab Wallace. Monk would be solid but after watching Sac become stagnant, I'm sure they will do what they need to to keep him. He's also besties with Fox since high school, so they seem to have the inroads to keep him.

TBH before the lackluster year from GTJ, I had figured he was going to Orlando. Him or OG, who would be perfect anywhere lol.

I haven't watched as much Magic this season, would Murray fit? Trade Black couple picks and absorb the balance?
Murray, Suggs, Wagner, Paolo, WCJ

SAC can't pay Fox more than $17.8 per (I think was the number)...therefore, that's below his NEW market value and that also means SAC can't even facilitate a SnT (which limits his suitors to those with the cap space to outbid SAC). Unless Monk takes love over money...which he won't, it's very unlikely SAC can really "do what they need to do" to keep him. He has also mentioned that he'd like to start, which is unlikely in SAC as well. The only exception I could think of would be signing a one-year below market deal with SAC, with the understanding that there's a big long-term deal next summer...that's risky for both sides. I think if ORL wants Monk, they go right at him with the money ($22m+ with a front-loaded descending deal) and the clear vision of a tremendous opportunity to be ORL's "Dearron Fox - type" backcourt leader. Monk's value is SO much higher than at any other time in his not-short career...I think you can bet on him taking the long-term security from ORL or SAS or...whoever (I don't see DET getting in on another smallish, ball-dominant player).