Trae Young moves

[Swish77]

I wish people realized that if the Spurs wanted to get a PG, they would have landed a good one already, for relatively cheap. But it seems clear the team DOES NOT want to maximize their short term chances, but their long term chances. That is, THEY'RE TANKING this year, and possibly the next one as well.
Spurs have said multiple times (owner Peter J Holt, GM Brian Wright, Pop) that they're not going to rush anything, and their track record backs their claims. They can monitor the market and maybe make a move, but it's naive to think they're going to throw everything they have at the first available target "just because".

I dont believe they will tank next year. I think this offseason they start moving towards winning again. You can't keep losing with Wemby on the roster. Its a bad look.

Next year will be Wemby's 2nd and he's still not a true no. 1 player on a contender, he'll get there by years 3/4 most likely. Spurs highest pick (besides Wemby) was Sochan at no. 9, they need to add talent and these next 2 drafts could provide the opportunity to do just that. I don't expect them to pull another "Sochan at PG" shameless tanking move, but they've already said they're trying "to build a dynasty" (owner's exact words) rather than pivoting quickly, and all these Trae Young proposals seem like desperation moves that don't fit that mold. I'd be shocked if anything like that happens.

SO you don't agree in moving towards winning next year? You don't have to trade for a Superstar to move towards winning.

[wemby]

I wish people realized that if the Spurs wanted to get a PG, they would have landed a good one already, for relatively cheap. But it seems clear the team DOES NOT want to maximize their short term chances, but their long term chances. That is, THEY'RE TANKING this year, and possibly the next one as well.
Spurs have said multiple times (owner Peter J Holt, GM Brian Wright, Pop) that they're not going to rush anything, and their track record backs their claims. They can monitor the market and maybe make a move, but it's naive to think they're going to throw everything they have at the first available target "just because".

I don't agree with this. Spurs could tank for 5 more years and they're never going to get a better pG than Trae. Heck odds are they won't get a better player than Trae regardless of position.

Trae + Wemby is such an interesting combo I think Spurs should really consider it. Wemby is ready to start playing meaningful basketball games immediately. If Spurs can do it without losing Vassel they would have a playoff team next year.

Spurs don't need a more flashy PG than Trae, there's plenty of PGs out there that will cost much less both in terms of assets and salary cap, and are more conducive to winning. One such example would be waiting until the '25 free agency and make a pitch at Derrich White, or pick Dillingham who seems to be like a pretty close prospect to what Trae is. These Trae Young proposals solve the Hawks problems more so that the Spurs'.

[winforlose]

naw, we know what we have. Murray is terrible on the ball and not nearly the defensive player he was advertised to be. JJ is awesome. OO already hit his ceiling and is on the way down. KB, who knows?


Team is crap, they either need to get rid of everyone except Trae and JJ and go from there or they need to clean house completely OKC style and trade Trae AND Murray for picks and then build around JJ and the draft.

There is no offense intended in this, (god knows my Wolves sucked at defense for so many years.) But, is it possible you aren’t getting the high end defense out of guys like DJM and OO because the defensive culture is bad. Having a Pat Bev type defender did wonders for us. Karl was a terrible defender, now he is 2nd in defensive win share behind only Rudy Gobert. Ant was terrible at defense now he is elite on ball. I think moving Trae and adding that hard nosed defensive vet will have a big impact. Jarred Vanderbilt might be a good trade target for you next year.

I do agree with the premise that teams take after their star players, however that's no excuse for Murray to come in with a defensive rep and to instantly turn into a sieve. Or is it?

Also, Trae is the only player on the team whno is actually improving on that end. Top 10 in steals and charges drawn this year. I bet no one on this site would've guessed that.

A good rule of thumb is defense takes twice as much energy as offense. If you truly believe your teammates will defend and have your back, it is much easier to get yourself psyched to the spend that energy and defend. However, when you think your effort is wasted because someone else will let down on defense, that effort is more likely to be spent on offense where you can make yourself look good. There is also a coaching and culture component. If guys understand the defensive scheme, and are all connected on defense, then your outcome is more likely favorable, even on an average defensive team. But, when guys don’t care about defense, when the attitude is give up 130 and drop 140, then you tend to give up 130 regardless of what you score.

[wemby]

I dont believe they will tank next year. I think this offseason they start moving towards winning again. You can't keep losing with Wemby on the roster. Its a bad look.

Next year will be Wemby's 2nd and he's still not a true no. 1 player on a contender, he'll get there by years 3/4 most likely. Spurs highest pick (besides Wemby) was Sochan at no. 9, they need to add talent and these next 2 drafts could provide the opportunity to do just that. I don't expect them to pull another "Sochan at PG" shameless tanking move, but they've already said they're trying "to build a dynasty" (owner's exact words) rather than pivoting quickly, and all these Trae Young proposals seem like desperation moves that don't fit that mold. I'd be shocked if anything like that happens.

SO you don't agree in moving towards winning next year? You don't have to trade for a Superstar to move towards winning.

I don't agree with desperate, all out moves towards contention. I would not like to see another season as bad as this one, but if the Spurs draft well and sign/trade for one or two key vets they could easily be at around 30/35 wins and use the '25 offseason to take that true leap towards contention (make a pitch at Donovan Mitchell, Lauri Markkanen, Derrick White, etc).

[BK_2020]

It's insane how underrated Trae gets. He took his team to the ECF as a 22 year old and has been near the top for on/off his whole career minus this season under Snyder. That's a lot of winning for a guy who doesn't impact winning.

[winforlose]

It's insane how underrated Trae gets. He took his team to the ECF as a 22 year old and has been near the top for on/off his whole career minus this season under Snyder. That's a lot of winning for a guy who doesn't impact winning.

I agree that he is more than he seems. But he doesn’t defend well and his 3 point shooting is not where it needs to be. I don’t think he should be the 1A, but he could be a very good 1B or an elite 3rd best player.

[shakes0]

I wish people realized that if the Spurs wanted to get a PG, they would have landed a good one already, for relatively cheap. But it seems clear the team DOES NOT want to maximize their short term chances, but their long term chances. That is, THEY'RE TANKING this year, and possibly the next one as well.
Spurs have said multiple times (owner Peter J Holt, GM Brian Wright, Pop) that they're not going to rush anything, and their track record backs their claims. They can monitor the market and maybe make a move, but it's naive to think they're going to throw everything they have at the first available target "just because".

I don't agree with this. Spurs could tank for 5 more years and they're never going to get a better pG than Trae. Heck odds are they won't get a better player than Trae regardless of position.

Trae + Wemby is such an interesting combo I think Spurs should really consider it. Wemby is ready to start playing meaningful basketball games immediately. If Spurs can do it without losing Vassel they would have a playoff team next year.

Spurs don't need a more flashy PG than Trae, there's plenty of PGs out there that will cost much less both in terms of assets and salary cap, and are more conducive to winning. One such example would be waiting until the '25 free agency and make a pitch at Derrich White, or pick Dillingham who seems to be like a pretty close prospect to what Trae is. These Trae Young proposals solve the Hawks problems more so that the Spurs'.

flashy? More conducive to winning? Derrick White? Dillingham close to the prospect of Trae?

Show yourself out and take a break, this is one clueless take after another.

Wake me up when you can name another PG who took his team to the conference finals at age 22 without having another all star on his team?


Wemby/Trae would be an ideal combo. You can have lotto picks for the next 10 years and the Spurs won't find a better running mate for Wemby than Trae. They fit together like a glove.


And for the record, I'm a Trae fan first and will follow him wherever he goes so I'm not saying all this cause I want ATL to get the better end of a deal.

[shakes0]

It's insane how underrated Trae gets. He took his team to the ECF as a 22 year old and has been near the top for on/off his whole career minus this season under Snyder. That's a lot of winning for a guy who doesn't impact winning.

I agree that he is more than he seems. But he doesn’t defend well and his 3 point shooting is not where it needs to be. I don’t think he should be the 1A, but he could be a very good 1B or an elite 3rd best player.

Are taking charges and getting steals part of defense? Trae is top 10 in both this year. He'll never be a good defender, but his defense has improved greatly this year especially from an effort POV.

And his poor 3 pt shooting is because he is always shooting off the dribble with a hand in his face. Because he is the #1 option and on top of everyone's scouting report. Put him with Wemby and all that changes. Wemby will draw the double teams and Trae will start to get some wide open catch and shoot oppotunities.

[winforlose]

It's insane how underrated Trae gets. He took his team to the ECF as a 22 year old and has been near the top for on/off his whole career minus this season under Snyder. That's a lot of winning for a guy who doesn't impact winning.

I agree that he is more than he seems. But he doesn’t defend well and his 3 point shooting is not where it needs to be. I don’t think he should be the 1A, but he could be a very good 1B or an elite 3rd best player.

Are taking charges and getting steals part of defense? Trae is top 10 in both this year. He'll never be a good defender, but his defense has improved greatly this year especially from an effort POV.

And his poor 3 pt shooting is because he is always shooting off the dribble with a hand in his face. Because he is the #1 option and on top of everyone's scouting report. Put him with Wemby and all that changes. Wemby will draw the double teams and Trae will start to get some wide open catch and shoot oppotunities.

Both are interesting points. My questions:

1. What are the team defensive numbers for the Hawks, (points allowed, defensive rating, defensive rank based on defensive rating, turnovers forced, ect…)

2. If Trae is excellent in catch and shoot why cannot the bigs screen and have DJM on ball to get Trae some clean looks?

2.

[shakes0]

I agree that he is more than he seems. But he doesn’t defend well and his 3 point shooting is not where it needs to be. I don’t think he should be the 1A, but he could be a very good 1B or an elite 3rd best player.

Are taking charges and getting steals part of defense? Trae is top 10 in both this year. He'll never be a good defender, but his defense has improved greatly this year especially from an effort POV.

And his poor 3 pt shooting is because he is always shooting off the dribble with a hand in his face. Because he is the #1 option and on top of everyone's scouting report. Put him with Wemby and all that changes. Wemby will draw the double teams and Trae will start to get some wide open catch and shoot oppotunities.

Both are interesting points. My questions:

1. What are the team defensive numbers for the Hawks, (points allowed, defensive rating, defensive rank based on defensive rating, turnovers forced, ect…)

2. If Trae is excellent in catch and shoot why cannot the bigs screen and have DJM on ball to get Trae some clean looks?

2.

1. don't know, I don't look at stats like that. Also I would assume that any team stat is based on tghe entire team, not one player thereby making it impossible to judge one player's d impact based on looking at team defensive numbers.


2. Trae IS excellent at catch and shoot. Not debatable. Look up his stats for the very few C&S opportunities he gets in an entire season.

Why Trae won't move without the ball and run through screens like Steph Curry has been a mystery to me over the last 3 years. I can't explain why he won't do it nor can I explain why the coaches don't insist he do it. But with Wemby he wouldn't have to. He can just get open looks based on Wemby getting doubled or sagged on in the post.

[Celts17Pride]

It's insane how underrated Trae gets. He took his team to the ECF as a 22 year old and has been near the top for on/off his whole career minus this season under Snyder. That's a lot of winning for a guy who doesn't impact winning.

Atlanta Hawks are 198 wins and 241 losses in Trae Young's 5.5 years in Atlanta. I guess "that's a lot of winning".

[wemby]

I don't agree with this. Spurs could tank for 5 more years and they're never going to get a better pG than Trae. Heck odds are they won't get a better player than Trae regardless of position.

Trae + Wemby is such an interesting combo I think Spurs should really consider it. Wemby is ready to start playing meaningful basketball games immediately. If Spurs can do it without losing Vassel they would have a playoff team next year.

Spurs don't need a more flashy PG than Trae, there's plenty of PGs out there that will cost much less both in terms of assets and salary cap, and are more conducive to winning. One such example would be waiting until the '25 free agency and make a pitch at Derrich White, or pick Dillingham who seems to be like a pretty close prospect to what Trae is. These Trae Young proposals solve the Hawks problems more so that the Spurs'.

flashy? More conducive to winning? Derrick White? Dillingham close to the prospect of Trae?

Show yourself out and take a break, this is one clueless take after another.

Wake me up when you can name another PG who took his team to the conference finals at age 22 without having another all star on his team?

Wemby/Trae would be an ideal combo. You can have lotto picks for the next 10 years and the Spurs won't find a better running mate for Wemby than Trae. They fit together like a glove.

And for the record, I'm a Trae fan first and will follow him wherever he goes so I'm not saying all this cause I want ATL to get the better end of a deal.

That's one way to put it, the other being that he only made it out of the first round once, which happens to be the fluke year where Ben Simons had a mental breakdown and decided he couldn't afford to dunk because he was too scared he might be fouled and take a FT. Other than that season he's hovered around 0.500 at best and was absolutely targeted, destroyed and exposed multiple times as the flawed player that he is (like in the Miami series), and he's widely considered overrated by his peers for good reason.

I can see why you as a Trae fan would like to see him paired with Wemby, he'd be in a prime position to highlight his stregths and cover his weaknesses, but I really don't give a *crap* about Trae stat padding and making highlights. Basketball is played on both ends, and you can only go so far when you're one of the worst players in the league on one end (defensive, of course). I'd rather have lower profile players that help you win, and it's hard to do with a guy that takes a HUGE chunk of your cap and assets and you have to plan everything around him because he's such a weak link on defense.

I would ABSOLUTELY 100% have Derrick White as my PG than Trae Young, all things considered (acquisition costs, salary, defense, etc), or take a chance on Dillingham being 70% of Trae at 5% the cost. But then again, I'm A SPURS FAN, not a Trae fan, so I'm not concerned with bailing out his legacy or the Hawks.

[azuresou1]

I don't believe anyone with two functioning eyes and a brain can actually watch the Hawks play and think that Trae Young is the problem with the Hawks winning.

I also can't fathom how a Spurs fan wouldn't want to pair Wemby, the generational freak athlete, with a Top 3 passer and the single best lob passer in the league by a wide margin.

For the record, Trae posts one of the BEST defensive EPMs for high-utilization PGs:

Read on Twitter

[jayu70]

Are taking charges and getting steals part of defense? Trae is top 10 in both this year. He'll never be a good defender, but his defense has improved greatly this year especially from an effort POV.

And his poor 3 pt shooting is because he is always shooting off the dribble with a hand in his face. Because he is the #1 option and on top of everyone's scouting report. Put him with Wemby and all that changes. Wemby will draw the double teams and Trae will start to get some wide open catch and shoot oppotunities.

Both are interesting points. My questions:

1. What are the team defensive numbers for the Hawks, (points allowed, defensive rating, defensive rank based on defensive rating, turnovers forced, ect…)

2. If Trae is excellent in catch and shoot why cannot the bigs screen and have DJM on ball to get Trae some clean looks?

2.

1. don't know, I don't look at stats like that. Also I would assume that any team stat is based on tghe entire team, not one player thereby making it impossible to judge one player's d impact based on looking at team defensive numbers.


2. Trae IS excellent at catch and shoot. Not debatable. Look up his stats for the very few C&S opportunities he gets in an entire season.

Why Trae won't move without the ball and run through screens like Steph Curry has been a mystery to me over the last 3 years. I can't explain why he won't do it nor can I explain why the coaches don't insist he do it. But with Wemby he wouldn't have to. He can just get open looks based on Wemby getting doubled or sagged on in the post.

Regarding the screens..during McMillan’s tenure? that's not his style or scheme. I also think to effectively run off screen, you need it in the playbook so the Bigs can set the screen and more importantly you need someone to pass Trae the ball. Who's gonna do it? Hunter, Collins, Capela?
We have been seeing it more this year under Quin, with more capable passers like DJ and JJ and even OO. I mean Trae cutting back door and getting a pass from OO was unexpected because Clint couldn't make that pass.

[BK_2020]

It's insane how underrated Trae gets. He took his team to the ECF as a 22 year old and has been near the top for on/off his whole career minus this season under Snyder. That's a lot of winning for a guy who doesn't impact winning.

Atlanta Hawks are 198 wins and 241 losses in Trae Young's 5.5 years in Atlanta. I guess "that's a lot of winning".

Kinda have to remove what happened when Trae was 21 or younger. Since turning 22, the Hawks have made the playoffs 3 seasons in a row and made it to ECF. 2 First-round appearances and 1 CF is exactly the same level of success that Luka has had.

[louc1970]

I don't believe anyone with two functioning eyes and a brain can actually watch the Hawks play and think that Trae Young is the problem with the Hawks winning.

I also can't fathom how a Spurs fan wouldn't want to pair Wemby, the generational freak athlete, with a Top 3 passer and the single best lob passer in the league by a wide margin.

For the record, Trae posts one of the BEST defensive EPMs for high-utilization PGs:

Read on Twitter

Am I reading this correctly that Mitchell is the only positive PG on the defensive side of the ball of that group?

[JKiddy]

Brooklyn goes all in.

Cam Thomas
Ben Simmons expiring
Suns ‘25 1st
Suns ‘27
Suns ‘29
Mavs ‘29
76ers ‘27

Maybe more if needed.

WTF no! Is Trae MJ in his prime? COME ON MAN! All Suns picks would not be in a trade for anyone not named Luka, Jokic, Wemby, or maybe Embiid.

[JKiddy]

Brooklyn goes all in.

Cam Thomas
Ben Simmons expiring
Suns ‘25 1st
Suns ‘27
Suns ‘29
Mavs ‘29
76ers ‘27

Maybe more if needed.

I don't see any other teams beating that offer. OKC could obviously, but I hate the fit for them.

The Lakers offer of Reaves, D-lo, Vincent, JHS + 3 1sts and some swaps probably beats it. Reaves on that contract and starting next to Murray is worth more than a few late 1sts.

Which of the Nets picks is slated to be a late first rounder? None of these that were listed are. Which ones???

[gswhoops]

I don't see any other teams beating that offer. OKC could obviously, but I hate the fit for them.

The Lakers offer of Reaves, D-lo, Vincent, JHS + 3 1sts and some swaps probably beats it. Reaves on that contract and starting next to Murray is worth more than a few late 1sts.

Which of the Nets picks is slated to be a late first rounder? None of these that were listed are. Which ones???

Are you expecting the Suns to blow up Booker/KD/Beal after one season? Because otherwise that '25 Suns pick looks like a late pick.

Embiid is under contract through 2027 and presumably Maxey will be too once he signs his max extension, so I wouldn't count on that being a great pick either.

That being said, I think I'd probably take the Brooklyn offer over the LAL offer here anyway. JHS is nothing more than a throw in at this point and Vincent is a negative value contract, albeit a small one.

[OriAr]

Spurs don't need a more flashy PG than Trae, there's plenty of PGs out there that will cost much less both in terms of assets and salary cap, and are more conducive to winning. One such example would be waiting until the '25 free agency and make a pitch at Derrich White, or pick Dillingham who seems to be like a pretty close prospect to what Trae is. These Trae Young proposals solve the Hawks problems more so that the Spurs'.

flashy? More conducive to winning? Derrick White? Dillingham close to the prospect of Trae?

Show yourself out and take a break, this is one clueless take after another.

Wake me up when you can name another PG who took his team to the conference finals at age 22 without having another all star on his team?

Wemby/Trae would be an ideal combo. You can have lotto picks for the next 10 years and the Spurs won't find a better running mate for Wemby than Trae. They fit together like a glove.

And for the record, I'm a Trae fan first and will follow him wherever he goes so I'm not saying all this cause I want ATL to get the better end of a deal.

That's one way to put it, the other being that he only made it out of the first round once, which happens to be the fluke year where Ben Simons had a mental breakdown and decided he couldn't afford to dunk because he was too scared he might be fouled and take a FT. Other than that season he's hovered around 0.500 at best and was absolutely targeted, destroyed and exposed multiple times as the flawed player that he is (like in the Miami series), and he's widely considered overrated by his peers for good reason.

I can see why you as a Trae fan would like to see him paired with Wemby, he'd be in a prime position to highlight his stregths and cover his weaknesses, but I really don't give a *crap* about Trae stat padding and making highlights. Basketball is played on both ends, and you can only go so far when you're one of the worst players in the league on one end (defensive, of course). I'd rather have lower profile players that help you win, and it's hard to do with a guy that takes a HUGE chunk of your cap and assets and you have to plan everything around him because he's such a weak link on defense.

I would ABSOLUTELY 100% have Derrick White as my PG than Trae Young, all things considered (acquisition costs, salary, defense, etc), or take a chance on Dillingham being 70% of Trae at 5% the cost. But then again, I'm A SPURS FAN, not a Trae fan, so I'm not concerned with bailing out his legacy or the Hawks.

Calling Dillingham "A pretty close prospect to Trae" and preferring Derrick White over Trae are both massive disrespect for Trae, Dillingham is a decent undersized 2 guard with all the pros and the cons it presents, including being a liability on the defensive end and not having the playmaking skills of a true PG (His playmaking skills are decent, but he's a combo guard and it shows).
Derrick white is a solid perimeter defender with a reliable outside shot, he's nowhere near Trae offensively in just about every aspect.

Trae Young is one of the only two players ever to lead NCAA division 1 in both scoring and assists in the same season, the other one who's done it wears #22 and plays for Iowa. Trae is also one of the only two players ever to lead the NBA in both scoring and assists in the same season (In total points scored and total assists, not to be confused with the assists and scoring title which go by ppg and apg), his playmaking abilities are those of an elite true PG and he has elite scoring ability to boot. And for all the talk about how Trae is supposed to be some massive defensive liability, he is -0.7 in defensive EPM this season, not great but perfectly acceptable when you produce as much offensively as he does, and most elite PGs are straight up trash on defense as well.

If the Hawks actually do put Trae on the market, Spurs would be absolutely foolish to not call ATL and enquire, especially as they can offer the Hawks their picks back which is a unique advantage other teams don't have.