Cade + for Wagner

[orlando_joe]

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Keep in mind Franz doesn’t just have to be more valuable than Cade. He has to be more valuable than Cade to the tune of trading out of the lottery from the number one pick. Pick one doesn’t have the value it normally does, but neither does 18.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

no problem ..way to many guards to be had without breaking up paolo,franz and suggs ...way to many..guards are all over the place
trading a great 2 way that was 4th in most ast per game for sf at 22 yrs old ...no problem

Great 2 way seems strong. He's OK in both fields. I'd argue his defense is helped out by playing with actual elite defenders like Suggs and Issac.

my goodness i am done...you go by a bad game 7 ..i go by 6 other games in game 4 alone franz 34/13/4 on 13/17 shooting and a team best +32 and no ...repeat no turnovers at 22 yrs old first time in playoffs

[Slim Charless]

Shouldn't the poll be:

Cade for Franz, what does DET need to add? With options of:

top 5 pick
lotto protected pick
late 1st
nothing
ORL owes value

Wouldn't a poll like this do a better job of determining that value gap between Cade and Franz? All of the other stuff (Black, Ausur, the picks) are just convoluting everything.

Great point. I would say a late first should be enough. Or a future lotto protected pick.

[Sactowndog]

Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I disagree about Wagner and Cade. I have been a Wagner fan but was shocked by his 29.3% on C&S 3’s this season. That percentage is basically unplayable.

[Ducklett]

Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I disagree about Wagner and Cade. I have been a Wagner fan but was shocked by his 29.3% on C&S 3’s this season. That percentage is basically unplayable.

Okay! I'm out. You just said Franz was unplayable. You realize even with this season's terrible shooting he has a higher 3% than Cade for their careers... Franz is also 4% higher in fg% and efg%.

[Sactowndog]

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I disagree about Wagner and Cade. I have been a Wagner fan but was shocked by his 29.3% on C&S 3’s this season. That percentage is basically unplayable.

Okay! I'm out. You just said Franz was unplayable. You realize even with this season's terrible shooting he has a higher 3% than Cade for their careers... Franz is also 4% higher in fg% and efg%.

Cade does other things and on Catch and Shoot 3’s shoots 37.1%. The bulk of his shots come off the dribble which are normally a lower percentage.

Franz as of last season was in the bottom .5% of players in the NBA with 2 or more attempts. Is this year an aberration? Maybe. But as of this year the idea of Franz was better than the actual Franz.

[Snakebites]

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I disagree about Wagner and Cade. I have been a Wagner fan but was shocked by his 29.3% on C&S 3’s this season. That percentage is basically unplayable.

Okay! I'm out. You just said Franz was unplayable. You realize even with this season's terrible shooting he has a higher 3% than Cade for their careers... Franz is also 4% higher in fg% and efg%.

For a young career no year matters more than the most recent one.

[amcoolio]

I'm a Wagner fan, wanted to draft him for the Hornets...... but 29 NBA GMs are taking Cade over Wagner and Orlando should too because he's a better on court fit with Banchero. Adding Thompson and the #1 pick is WILD

[Ducklett]

I disagree about Wagner and Cade. I have been a Wagner fan but was shocked by his 29.3% on C&S 3’s this season. That percentage is basically unplayable.

Okay! I'm out. You just said Franz was unplayable. You realize even with this season's terrible shooting he has a higher 3% than Cade for their careers... Franz is also 4% higher in fg% and efg%.

For a young career no year matters more than the most recent one.

Franz was 4% better at FG% and 3% better at efg% THIS season. The advanced stats look even worse for Cade. He was barely a positive while on the floor because of how bad he is at defense. Sincerely, his defensive stats were worse than Harden's. I know you guys think offensive stats are the only thing that matters, but there is more to the game than PPG.

[Mr Peanut]

Okay! I'm out. You just said Franz was unplayable. You realize even with this season's terrible shooting he has a higher 3% than Cade for their careers... Franz is also 4% higher in fg% and efg%.

For a young career no year matters more than the most recent one.

Franz was 4% better at FG% and 3% better at efg% THIS season. The advanced stats look even worse for Cade. He was barely a positive while on the floor because of how bad he is at defense. Sincerely, his defensive stats were worse than Harden's. I know you guys think offensive stats are the only thing that matters, but there is more to the game than PPG.

Yes, because Franz took 63.5% of his total shots within 10 feet while Cade took 45.2% of his there. But there's no hiding from the fact that Franz shot 28.1% from three on 4.6 attempts with a 72 game sample size. Those are Josh Smith numbers.

Cade's defense has room for improvement but he's shown flashes in that area, and arguably when he is on a team with more talent competing for something the effort will be there. Comparing his defense to Harden basically tells me you don't watch him play (and I don't blame you for not watching Detroit, but at least be upfront about it).

As I said in another thread, when Cade is finally playing on a good team fans will start to appreciate what he is able to do and he will get his recognition. Before that happens these debates will always end up with people downplaying his stats and impact due to being surrounded by a poor roster and a bad team record.

[Audi]

I'm a Wagner fan, wanted to draft him for the Hornets...... but 29 NBA GMs are taking Cade over Wagner and Orlando should too because he's a better on court fit with Banchero. Adding Thompson and the #1 pick is WILD

...quite literally any team that already has their cornerstone guard on the roster would take Franz over Cade. CHO is a perfect example.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

What I’ve learned:

Don’t max Cade out this summer - let him continue to prove himself. Or trade him if the new HOBO blows it up.

If you shoot 28% from three, you’ll still be worshipped in Orlando.

[eyriq]

Wagner is a leader on a 47 win team and an iron man. Orlando hangs up the phone.

[Ducklett]

For a young career no year matters more than the most recent one.

Franz was 4% better at FG% and 3% better at efg% THIS season. The advanced stats look even worse for Cade. He was barely a positive while on the floor because of how bad he is at defense. Sincerely, his defensive stats were worse than Harden's. I know you guys think offensive stats are the only thing that matters, but there is more to the game than PPG.

Yes, because Franz took 63.5% of his total shots within 10 feet while Cade took 45.2% of his there. But there's no hiding from the fact that Franz shot 28.1% from three on 4.6 attempts with a 72 game sample size. Those are Josh Smith numbers.

Cade's defense has room for improvement but he's shown flashes in that area, and arguably when he is on a team with more talent competing for something the effort will be there. Comparing his defense to Harden basically tells me you don't watch him play (and I don't blame you for not watching Detroit, but at least be upfront about it).

As I said in another thread, when Cade is finally playing on a good team fans will start to appreciate what he is able to do and he will get his recognition. Before that happens these debates will always end up with people downplaying his stats and impact due to being surrounded by a poor roster and a bad team record.

I actually already appreciate him and I enjoy watching him. I apologize if I came off as suggesting that Cade isn't a great player. It is just these ridiculous analyzations that Franz is crap because of game seven (in a series that doesn't make it to 7 without him carrying a game) or because he had a bad year shooting the three. If he shot 28% for three years I would be in the camp with the haters but it was one down year and he was objectively taking bad attempts. He needs to clean up shot selection, just like Paolo. Franz was over 200 in plus minus for the season. By far the highest on our team. The dude was still balling even with his shot not falling.

[AaronB]

Wagner is a leader on a 47 win team and an iron man. Orlando hangs up the phone.

Orlando laughs, then hangs up the phone

Wagner has a career EW of almost 30.

Cade, under 10

On Wagner's worst shooting year in his career, he still blows Cade out of the water with a 3.5 EPM, while Cade is under 0.5

Is this thread a joke?

[Snakebites]

Wagner is a leader on a 47 win team and an iron man. Orlando hangs up the phone.

No worries. The Pistons aren’t making this call.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Wagner is a leader on a 47 win team and an iron man. Orlando hangs up the phone.

Orlando laughs, then hangs up the phone

Wagner has a career EW of almost 30.

Cade, under 10

On Wagner's worst shooting year in his career, he still blows Cade out of the water with a 3.5 EPM, while Cade is under 0.5

Is this thread a joke?

……says eleven people out of sixty so far

[wegotthabeet]

I usually like that Wolveswin isn’t afraid to throw out big ideas, but this is a miss. Wagner isn’t the centerpiece to build around so the premise is already flawed. Wagner is more the complimentary core piece not the main piece.

[Slim Charless]

Wagner is a leader on a 47 win team and an iron man. Orlando hangs up the phone.

Orlando laughs, then hangs up the phone

Wagner has a career EW of almost 30.

Cade, under 10

On Wagner's worst shooting year in his career, he still blows Cade out of the water with a 3.5 EPM, while Cade is under 0.5

Is this thread a joke?

……says eleven people out of sixty so far

I was just gonna say....a joke for who?

Cause a massive majority of this board thinks that the trade Wolveswin made is wildly imbalanced and quite frankly, silly.

If anyone needs to be laughing at this whole thread, it's Pistons fans.

The board has spoken. Not sure what Magic fans are up in arms about. Neutral fans have weighed in on this.... no one is doing this trade.

[RookieStar]

Take out the Sarr and 18pick options...

Go with Cade Ausar for Franz Black to have a better debate.

With that said, i was the leader of the Fade for Cade tank brigade in our board BUT gotta say, with the emergence of Franz... i dont think i would do a 1 for 1 trade.

Every year Franz has improved and impressed me. Especially with his ability called " availability" which is kinda important in this new era we are in.

[eyriq]

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