Instant Reaction: What Do The Thunder Do This Off-Season?

[Wolveswin]

See, that where it comes apart. ATL needs Vassel too. Otherwise the value isn't there. OKC getting #1 for Jdubb makes sense on paper. Giving thm Vassell too is too much.

So you value Trae as just getting their own picks back?

Nothing else? If we're assuming that #1 is equal to JDub. That's way off IMO....

I will try a third time. The trade you are defending was bones - not fully baked - and those three teams easily have the assets to make it work.

For example, if Hawks still want a 2024 1st, enter #12 from Presti or #4 or #8 from Spurs. If Hawks value more getting their future back, send them ALL back with Spurs getting Trae (and even something something from Presti). Like a million combinations that make value work.

Ahhh I understand. Well, in that case since OKC is getting Vassel then they should be able to send Cason Wallace to ATL. Him, along with another 2/3 FRPs should make it more even.

Personally, I think Jalen >> #1. Not close really.

But I think Vassell + #1 > Jalen. Jalen isn’t a #1 better than Vassell.

Something like this:
To Hawks: Jalen Williams + Jones (or Graham) + #12 (maybe #8 with #12 to Spurs) + 25/26 Hawks 1sts (returned)

To Spurs: Trae Young + Hunter

To OKC: Vassell + #1 (with Presti ready to add a owed 1st if Spurs need that as final piece to give all Hawks owed 1sts back)

Hawks would have nice duo in Jalen and Jalen (Johnson and Williams). Marketing angle is endless.

[Slim Charless]

I will try a third time. The trade you are defending was bones - not fully baked - and those three teams easily have the assets to make it work.

For example, if Hawks still want a 2024 1st, enter #12 from Presti or #4 or #8 from Spurs. If Hawks value more getting their future back, send them ALL back with Spurs getting Trae (and even something something from Presti). Like a million combinations that make value work.

Ahhh I understand. Well, in that case since OKC is getting Vassel then they should be able to send Cason Wallace to ATL. Him, along with another 2/3 FRPs should make it more even.

Personally, I think Jalen >> #1. Not close really.

But I think Vassell + #1 > Jalen. Jalen isn’t a #1 better than Vassell.

Something like this:
To Hawks: Jalen Williams + Jones (or Graham) + #12 (maybe #8 with #12 to Spurs) + 25/26 Hawks 1sts (returned)

To Spurs: Trae Young + Hunter

To OKC: Vassell + #1 (with Presti ready to add a owed 1st if Spurs need that as final piece to give all Hawks owed 1sts back)

Hawks would have nice duo in Jalen and Jalen (Johnson and Williams). Marketing angle is endless.

Marketing angles are nice. Winning is nicer. I'm not sure that OKC isn't still stealing value here. Spurs getting Trae for Vassel and Atlanta picks seems fair, but OKC still getting alot.

Even if you say that JDub > #1....I don't agree but whatever. Thunder still need to add more as they're also getting Vassel. Kinda feel that they need to add CasonW.

[Skybox]

So what's an objective take on the gap between WCJ, who many want for OKC, and Giddey (who many want gone from OKC)?

WCJ seems to me to nicely address some of the most apparent issues with OKC (which are awesomely few) AND is very young and versatile AND on an amazing deal (regardless of how good you think he is or isn't -within sane analysis). He's 25 and has 2 more seasons on a descending salary, roughly 12m, then 11m. I think his injury history is overblown but you should consider it. Nothing chronic about a broken finger - he's not Isaac or Hayward, in that respect.

Giddey is interesting for ORL. Not a shooter or defender...but he's long, apparently has high BBIQ, and could make a nice table setter for ORL's young core, who spend entirely too much time in iso. They are exceptional iso scorers, but there's always a ceiling to that as an offensive scheme. Josh is 21 and has one more season at around $8m, so he's up for a rookie extension this summer or RFA next.

Who adds and what's the add?

IMO, as stated previously, WCJ has more value than Giddey, when all factors are considered. I would add that Giddey probably has more upside, due to his size, age, and (I believe it's acknowledged-correct me) exceptional BBIQ. ORL has fellow Aussie, Joe Ingles, who, if his head was on Giddey's body, would be an amazing player. IF Giddey bought into Coach Mosley's team defensive principles and started making just a few more 3's, he'd be the answer to all of ORL's concerns at PG...if he's not able to play good defense, he'll be watching or throwing lobs to Jett Howard in the G-League. I'm exaggerating but it's become clear that defense is non-negotiable to ORL and Mosley. I believe Mosley's defensive instincts and tactics can make a bad defender pretty good (see Fultz, Cole Anthony) or at least minimize the effect (see Ingles), plus the effort and intensity of Jalen Suggs and Isaac, in particular, is somewhat contagious among a young competitive team.

So...I'd love OKC to add Isaiah Joe or Kenrich, but I'd accept that that's too much...ORL adding a pick isn't enough because OKC isn't looking to stockpile more picks while taking a personnel step backwards...I don't think ORL is either.

How about...
WCJ and DEN 25 frp (top 5 protected)
for...

Giddey and 2024 frp swap (ORL gets #12 , OKC gets #18)

[Texas Chuck]

So...I'd love OKC to add Isaiah Joe or Kenrich, but I'd accept that that's too much

So I don't know if OKC values Carter more than Giddey, but its not unreasonable that they believe he solves more issues. And I don't think they would add Joe, but I don't have Kenrich too much to ask.

I could see a reasonable valuation of Giddey/Williams for Carter. I'm not as high on Carter as most, but I also understand I am on the low end on Carter so I am prepared to adjust upwards. And I'm not sure what to do with Giddey. Last year of deal hurts and of course the Dallas series was brutal, but he was good this year, he was good in the first round.

Probably better for Giddey to go a team not as good as Orlando imo. Orlando would have little patience with Dallas series type struggles.

But on value I think that's probably fine.

[Xman]

Seems like all agree on a few things:
starters - Shae, JWill, Chet - should remain
Dort - remain or nor - D is solid but scoring lacking.
Needs - most say a big man (pf) is primary. Backup big also.
Maybe - I think a real shooter offball would be a big addition.

Players on roster that have value and great fit:
IJoe/Giddey - backup sg
CWallace - backup pg

A few guys that fill the big need:
Markky - see below.
Mikal (or maybe CamJ) - picks plus some combo of (Giddey/Dieng/KWill/Wiggins maybe IJoe/CWallace). Costly though.
Maybe Eason - Would take an overpay and is not a sure thing - doubt OKC would give 10 pus protected firsts (MIA+UTA+PHI) which would be around what HOU would consider - if they had another deal in place and needed picks.

Mentioned and would be strong additions:
Sarr - I like his fit with Chet. But, ATL may be hard to deal with.

Might be a fit on cheaper side:
BLopez - I like the idea of a consolidation trade for both. OKC gets BLo - MIL gets a combo from (Giddey/Dieng/KWill/Wiggins maybe IJoe/CWallace - and if limited players then maybe a pick).
Adams - Could be had fairly cheap but HOU does not need bodies now so probably a highly protected future first - and might someone with him if they wanted Tate, JGreen or Landale. JGreen is old but still worth having as a backup and Tate could backup Dort.

I think Ainge might be a good choice to deal with and get Markky. Ainge does not seem committed to anyone yet, so future picks trip his trigger.
OKC gets - #10, Markky, Sexton
UTA gets - Salaries to make it work (maybe Giddey/Dieng/Wiggins/KWill), pick package
pick package = 2025 UTA first back, 2027 DEN 1st, 2029 DEN 1st, 2026 first (2nd best of OKC/PHI/LAC/HOU), 2027 OKC first (with OKC/DEN swap rights for LAC 1st). If more needed - 2025 MIA 1st (pro 14, unpro), 2025 PHI 1st (pro 6/4/4/2nds).
- the only first of its own that UTA gives in 2027 since so much is tied to it - but might pull the 2027 picks out (DEN and OKC) and in the 2025 protected ones.

OR - 3 way - -
OKC gets - BLo, Markky, Tate
HOU - - gets TE and a couple of future 2nds
UTA gets filler and pick package (as negotiated out of list above)
MIL sends out $25 mil BLo and gets a few 2nds and combo of salaries from (Giddey, Dieng, Wiggins, bad JWill, KWill, maybe IJoe/Wallace, Landale, JeffGreen, Adams).
- I doubt MIL would part out BLo but other posts mentioned it and this would let them round out with guys they can play as needed.

[Skybox]

So...I'd love OKC to add Isaiah Joe or Kenrich, but I'd accept that that's too much

So I don't know if OKC values Carter more than Giddey, but its not unreasonable that they believe he solves more issues. And I don't think they would add Joe, but I don't have Kenrich too much to ask.

I could see a reasonable valuation of Giddey/Williams for Carter. I'm not as high on Carter as most, but I also understand I am on the low end on Carter so I am prepared to adjust upwards. And I'm not sure what to do with Giddey. Last year of deal hurts and of course the Dallas series was brutal, but he was good this year, he was good in the first round.

Probably better for Giddey to go a team not as good as Orlando imo. Orlando would have little patience with Dallas series type struggles.

But on value I think that's probably fine.

As an ORL fan, patience is something I feel the FO has too much of...and the national media has been slagging Franz Wagner for his playoff shooting and (this is not up for debate) Franz is REALLY good. I'm still not sure of the fit for Giddey - but he's just one of those intriguing "could he make the whole team better, regardless of his stats" guys - like Ingles or Brook Lopez (the old age version). Anthony Black is another one of those guys...you don't want to play him too much, you're not even sure what he is or will be...but "you can't have him".

[Xman]

A Sarr deal:

Hunter and #1 for TE, #12 and future picks (2027 DEN 1st, 2029 DEN 1st, 2026 first (2nd best of OKC/PHI/LAC/HOU), If more needed - 2025 MIA 1st (pro 14, unpro), 2025 PHI 1st (pro 6/4/4/2nds).
- this works if ATL is wanting to unload Hunter's contract and OKC is willing to overpay a little to get Sarr next to Chet.

or - could just figure out a pick swap.

[giberish]

While they certainly could go star hunting with their assets, it's possible that there isn't a guy on the market that they like.

For role players, IMO a PF is the biggest need. Williams has the head-height of a SG, but the overall size of a SF. He can play PF in a pinch but shouldn't be there full-time. A solid 4th/5th starter type PF would be a big help (somewhat ironically PJ Washington would be a good fit and would have been a good mid-season upgrade). I think they need someone who is at least a bit of a 3-ooint threat to keep their 5-out look but that should be easier to find in a PF than a C.

[TimeisIllmatic]

I think they should go all in to go for Markkanen. I think he could be the missing piece for this team and is a clear fit for OKC's system.

[oldncreaky]

So...I'd love OKC to add Isaiah Joe or Kenrich, but I'd accept that that's too much

So I don't know if OKC values Carter more than Giddey, but its not unreasonable that they believe he solves more issues. And I don't think they would add Joe, but I don't have Kenrich too much to ask.

I could see a reasonable valuation of Giddey/Williams for Carter. I'm not as high on Carter as most, but I also understand I am on the low end on Carter so I am prepared to adjust upwards. And I'm not sure what to do with Giddey. Last year of deal hurts and of course the Dallas series was brutal, but he was good this year, he was good in the first round.

Probably better for Giddey to go a team not as good as Orlando imo. Orlando would have little patience with Dallas series type struggles.

But on value I think that's probably fine.

Fan of neither Orlando or OKC, but have watched enough to venture an opinion

I have the Giddey v WCJ as a trade-off between the player with a higher ceiling (Giddey) versus a player with a higher floor (WCJ). In a vacuum, I'd favour WCJ, and have the difference as a couple of decent SRPs or maybe a late FRP, but definitely not someone like I. Joe.

In the context of the current rosters, I think WCJ would be a great get for OKC (backup 4/5 who doesn't look completely hopeless as a starter). OTOH, I'm not sure I like the fit of Giddey in Orlando, who already have a lot of interesting depth but really needs a certifiable starting G to play beside Suggs. That implies OKC would have to overpay, and that probably doesn't make sense for OKC

[Skybox]

While they certainly could go star hunting with their assets, it's possible that there isn't a guy on the market that they like.

For role players, IMO a PF is the biggest need. Williams has the head-height of a SG, but the overall size of a SF. He can play PF in a pinch but shouldn't be there full-time. A solid 4th/5th starter type PF would be a big help (somewhat ironically PJ Washington would be a good fit and would have been a good mid-season upgrade). I think they need someone who is at least a bit of a 3-ooint threat to keep their 5-out look but that should be easier to find in a PF than a C.

Ironically, look at what DAL gave to get Gafford and PJ Washington . OKC could've found those picks in the couch cushions and never missed them. I wanted Gafford for ORL (in a Tyus deal) badly...and just knew he'd come cheap and play big.

[Texas Chuck]

While they certainly could go star hunting with their assets, it's possible that there isn't a guy on the market that they like.

For role players, IMO a PF is the biggest need. Williams has the head-height of a SG, but the overall size of a SF. He can play PF in a pinch but shouldn't be there full-time. A solid 4th/5th starter type PF would be a big help (somewhat ironically PJ Washington would be a good fit and would have been a good mid-season upgrade). I think they need someone who is at least a bit of a 3-ooint threat to keep their 5-out look but that should be easier to find in a PF than a C.

Ironically, look at what DAL gave to get Gafford and PJ Washington . OKC could've found those picks in the couch cushions and never missed them. I wanted Gafford for ORL (in a Tyus deal) badly...and just knew he'd come cheap and play big.

Ironically,as well Gafford was great in the RS, but hasn't been great in the playoffs. He's had some injuries so maybe that's the issue, but he's been relatively disappointing.

Funny thing for me was I started a thread with Dallas limited assets trying to get them a big man and a poster(can't remember who sorry) called me out immediately and said what you mean is you want Daniel Gafford specifically--and that poster was right) but I had convinced myself Dallas couldn't quite pull him off.

Still nice to have two good centers to go to. An underrated part of the Tyson addition to the title team was how aggressive he could play because Haywood was a starter quality backup center.

[jayjaysee]

So...I'd love OKC to add Isaiah Joe or Kenrich, but I'd accept that that's too much

So I don't know if OKC values Carter more than Giddey, but its not unreasonable that they believe he solves more issues. And I don't think they would add Joe, but I don't have Kenrich too much to ask.

I could see a reasonable valuation of Giddey/Williams for Carter. I'm not as high on Carter as most, but I also understand I am on the low end on Carter so I am prepared to adjust upwards. And I'm not sure what to do with Giddey. Last year of deal hurts and of course the Dallas series was brutal, but he was good this year, he was good in the first round.

Probably better for Giddey to go a team not as good as Orlando imo. Orlando would have little patience with Dallas series type struggles.

But on value I think that's probably fine.

Fan of neither Orlando or OKC, but have watched enough to venture an opinion

I have the Giddey v WCJ as a trade-off between the player with a higher ceiling (Giddey) versus a player with a higher floor (WCJ). In a vacuum, I'd favour WCJ, and have the difference as a couple of decent SRPs or maybe a late FRP, but definitely not someone like I. Joe.

In the context of the current rosters, I think WCJ would be a great get for OKC (backup 4/5 who doesn't look completely hopeless as a starter). OTOH, I'm not sure I like the fit of Giddey in Orlando, who already have a lot of interesting depth but really needs a certifiable starting G to play beside Suggs. That implies OKC would have to overpay, and that probably doesn't make sense for OKC

Feels like this has the price for WCJ mostly the same with or without Giddey. Which means you just keep Giddey?

[oldncreaky]

So I don't know if OKC values Carter more than Giddey, but its not unreasonable that they believe he solves more issues. And I don't think they would add Joe, but I don't have Kenrich too much to ask.

I could see a reasonable valuation of Giddey/Williams for Carter. I'm not as high on Carter as most, but I also understand I am on the low end on Carter so I am prepared to adjust upwards. And I'm not sure what to do with Giddey. Last year of deal hurts and of course the Dallas series was brutal, but he was good this year, he was good in the first round.

Probably better for Giddey to go a team not as good as Orlando imo. Orlando would have little patience with Dallas series type struggles.

But on value I think that's probably fine.

Fan of neither Orlando or OKC, but have watched enough to venture an opinion

I have the Giddey v WCJ as a trade-off between the player with a higher ceiling (Giddey) versus a player with a higher floor (WCJ). In a vacuum, I'd favour WCJ, and have the difference as a couple of decent SRPs or maybe a late FRP, but definitely not someone like I. Joe.

In the context of the current rosters, I think WCJ would be a great get for OKC (backup 4/5 who doesn't look completely hopeless as a starter). OTOH, I'm not sure I like the fit of Giddey in Orlando, who already have a lot of interesting depth but really needs a certifiable starting G to play beside Suggs. That implies OKC would have to overpay, and that probably doesn't make sense for OKC

Feels like this has the price for WCJ mostly the same with or without Giddey. Which means you just keep Giddey?

Maybe. Value can be bridged with picks/filler I guess, but I don't know why Orlando would be interested. I'm not sure a deal can be found that fits both teams. Both teams have lots of interesting young depth, but each has a hole in their starting line up (OKC needs a PF, ORL needs a PG) that isn't really addressed by trading depth with each other.

[dms269]

A Sarr deal:

Hunter and #1 for TE, #12 and future picks (2027 DEN 1st, 2029 DEN 1st, 2026 first (2nd best of OKC/PHI/LAC/HOU), If more needed - 2025 MIA 1st (pro 14, unpro), 2025 PHI 1st (pro 6/4/4/2nds).
- this works if ATL is wanting to unload Hunter's contract and OKC is willing to overpay a little to get Sarr next to Chet.

or - could just figure out a pick swap.

This only works if there is immediately, youngish win now talent available to flip those picks for who fit in with Trae and Jalen.

[cjmcallist]

So what's an objective take on the gap between WCJ, who many want for OKC, and Giddey (who many want gone from OKC)?

Who adds and what's the add?

I’d love WCJ on OKC.

Im still a believer on the upside of Giddey. He’s so young. His contract situation gives longer control.

I really value those things so I’d want a FRP, maybe more, in return with WCJ.

[Residual-Heat]

WCJ would be perfect for the Thunder. They can get WCJ without including Giddey or anyone of their players. I doubt the Magic would be interested in Giddey anyway.

[NYG]

Is Dieng and Giddey too much for Kuzma?

[Dn4sty]

Is Dieng and Giddey too much for Kuzma?

Probably not. I think OKC could squeeze maybe a bit more or maybe just take Dieng out. OKC will have the cap space to completely absorb Kuzma if needed as well.

[Skybox]

WCJ would be perfect for the Thunder. They can get WCJ without including Giddey or anyone of their players. I doubt the Magic would be interested in Giddey anyway.

Not sure what you're saying...ORL is not going to trade WCJ for picks