Very Simple Trade - Jarrett Allen for Wendell Carter Jr

[Ell Curry]

I think if Cleveland downgrades at center they have to get an asset that helps them get a decent SF. So even something that can fetch them Finney-Smith for example. So maybe Fultz and a future protected 1st to Brooklyn and Finney-Smith with Carter JR to Cleveland?

[TheLand13]

This would be great for Olando because Claxton is younger and better than Allen at everything except FT shooting

I'm sorry, what?

Defense I will gladly concede Claxton is better at. But rebounding is still Allen. Claxon is not even close to being the passer Allen is. Allen is a superior scorer and if you want to try to argue otherwise, feel free to do so without using TS% because you're just setting yourself up for failure if you do that. Honestly this entire statement could not be more off base. Holy moly.

How about not simple..:

Banchero + Harris + #6 + #11 + 1sts as needed

FOR

Mobley + Mitchell

New Magic:
WCJ
Mobley
Wagner
Mitchell
Suggs

New Cavs:
Allen
Banchero
#6 (Thompson or Black or Dick)
Okoro | Harris | #11
Garland

Orlando would hang up the phone so quick if this was offered to them. Banchero has the Potential to be better than Mitchell and Mobley. You dont trade away that type of rookie unless you are getting a superstar in return.

First off, Banchero does not have the potential to be better than Mobley, at least based on what we're seeing so far. Mobley is already further in his development than any of us were expecting and he's still incredibly young. He's already a very skilled offensive player and was a DPOY finalist... at age 21. If Banchero truly does have any potential of being better, he better start working on the areas of his game outside of scoring, because he's going to need to be great in just about everything to be ahead of Mobley.

Second, let's not pretend that this isn't a bad trade for Cleveland either. On top of Mobley more than likely being better than Banchero (and I will continue to say most likely until Banchero demonstrates what I stated above), we're now giving up a superstar in Mitchell as well (you claim we aren't but that's banter. Mitchell is most definitely a superstar at this point). Maybe if Allen is who we're giving up, then sure. But giving up Mobley as well is just a bad idea all around. No way would Cleveland ever consider this.

[toooskies]

That's so, so much worse for the Cavs. There's a good chance that the Magic don't pick up Harris' guarantee, and based on his injury history, I'm not sure he even gets the MLE.

If Brook is open to leaving the Bucks, he's not getting more than the MLE. After that Heat series, there won't be a lot of teams looking to break the bank for him. Slow-footed 35 year olds who've started to regress don't turn it around. I'd rather have WCJ.

This the same Brook Lopez that was 4th in that series in per-game scoring, 3rd in points scored? DPOY runner-up? Top 25 in regular season RAPTOR WAR and Win Shares? And he's only getting the MLE? Only if he decides to take a homer deal in Milwaukee that's made up for in contract length.

I very strongly disagree with the sentiment that BroLo was the reason the Bucks lost to the Heat. Maybe playing BroLo 43 minutes in game 5 made him look slow at the end of the game? Maybe Miami shooting 45% from the 3-point line in the series while Milwaukee was missing their 2-way superstar for multiple games and had a coach that got fired for how he performed in that series?

And I disagree on Gary Harris too-- he may not be worth his $13m to Orlando since he's not on their timeline and they can afford to shop for a more expensive guard in free agency, but he's a good shooter and a serviceable defender. He might be a late/fringe rotation player on a contender but that's a clear on-court upgrade over Danny Green/Cedi Osman or a non-shooter.

First off, Cedi shot 37% from 3 last season on 4 apg and only makes $6M so let's ease up on the addition by subtraction position with him. He's well worth his contract during the regular season even if you'd rather never see him on the floor in the playoffs again. Gary Harris has missed an average of 30+ games a season over the course of the last 3 seasons. I'd spend the BAE on him, if the Cavs wanted to use the MLE, it wouldn't be my first choice, but fine, whatever. I definitely wouldn't view him as the + in a WCJ+ trade for Allen.

Regarding Brook Lopez: It's absurd that he's still getting DPOY votes. He plays alongside Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue, and for reasons I don't completely understand, the NBA allows him to play illegal defense on every possession. But if you take him off that team and put him on one where he doesn't have three good defenders in front of him, where he'd actually be responsible for covering more than a 6-8 foot section around the rim, he couldn't even start. But yeah, the way you beat drop coverage, which is the only coverage Lopez plays, is to shoot over it, and if you're shooting well, he's got to go have a seat. Lopez isn't THE reason the Bucks lost to the Heat anymore than Allen was THE reason the Cavs lost to the Knicks, but I have far more faith in Allen to bounce back than Lopez. I don't think Lopez voluntarily leaves the Bucks because he won't be able to play alongside of that type of defensive personnel anywhere else.

I am fairly certain that 91 out of 100 voters for DPOY who placed him first, second, or third aren't wrong about Lopez, but you go ahead on that little island.

[JT3000]

I also disagree that WCJ is a minor downgrade from Allen defensively. He and Wagner are a lousy last line of defense.

Good thing Wagner is a wing. Just admit you don't even watch the Magic. You're just all up in your feels because you don't want to trade Allen.

How about not simple..:

Banchero + Harris + #6 + #11 + 1sts as needed

FOR

Mobley + Mitchell

New Magic:
WCJ
Mobley
Wagner
Mitchell
Suggs

New Cavs:
Allen
Banchero
#6 (Thompson or Black or Dick)
Okoro | Harris | #11
Garland

How about NO?

First off, Banchero does not have the potential to be better than Mobley

You're absolutely right, he has the potential to be MUCH better than Mobley.

[ConSarnit]

Ironically I think Jarrett Allen is a little overrated. Despite being an agile rim protector, he’s only ok at switching on to guards and gets bullied by any opposing center with a little weight on them. On offense he’s simply a finisher and lob catcher, nothing more.

This isn't true at all. To describe Allen as just a finisher and lob catcher ignores his post game and great passing abilities, which were very valuable for our offense. At least watch the man play before you pretend you know his game.

Players who got 50+ post-up possessions this season: 67

Allen's ranks:

ppp: 0.80, 59/67 (18th percentile league wide)
ft freq: 11.1%, 51/67
efg%: 42.5%, 56/67

How exactly is that valuable to the Cavs? He's didn't score efficiently from the post nor did he draw fouls. A Lamar Stevens 3PA was better offense for the Cavs.

[ConSarnit]

This the same Brook Lopez that was 4th in that series in per-game scoring, 3rd in points scored? DPOY runner-up? Top 25 in regular season RAPTOR WAR and Win Shares? And he's only getting the MLE? Only if he decides to take a homer deal in Milwaukee that's made up for in contract length.

I very strongly disagree with the sentiment that BroLo was the reason the Bucks lost to the Heat. Maybe playing BroLo 43 minutes in game 5 made him look slow at the end of the game? Maybe Miami shooting 45% from the 3-point line in the series while Milwaukee was missing their 2-way superstar for multiple games and had a coach that got fired for how he performed in that series?

And I disagree on Gary Harris too-- he may not be worth his $13m to Orlando since he's not on their timeline and they can afford to shop for a more expensive guard in free agency, but he's a good shooter and a serviceable defender. He might be a late/fringe rotation player on a contender but that's a clear on-court upgrade over Danny Green/Cedi Osman or a non-shooter.

First off, Cedi shot 37% from 3 last season on 4 apg and only makes $6M so let's ease up on the addition by subtraction position with him. He's well worth his contract during the regular season even if you'd rather never see him on the floor in the playoffs again. Gary Harris has missed an average of 30+ games a season over the course of the last 3 seasons. I'd spend the BAE on him, if the Cavs wanted to use the MLE, it wouldn't be my first choice, but fine, whatever. I definitely wouldn't view him as the + in a WCJ+ trade for Allen.

Regarding Brook Lopez: It's absurd that he's still getting DPOY votes. He plays alongside Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue, and for reasons I don't completely understand, the NBA allows him to play illegal defense on every possession. But if you take him off that team and put him on one where he doesn't have three good defenders in front of him, where he'd actually be responsible for covering more than a 6-8 foot section around the rim, he couldn't even start. But yeah, the way you beat drop coverage, which is the only coverage Lopez plays, is to shoot over it, and if you're shooting well, he's got to go have a seat. Lopez isn't THE reason the Bucks lost to the Heat anymore than Allen was THE reason the Cavs lost to the Knicks, but I have far more faith in Allen to bounce back than Lopez. I don't think Lopez voluntarily leaves the Bucks because he won't be able to play alongside of that type of defensive personnel anywhere else.

I am fairly certain that 91 out of 100 voters for DPOY who placed him first, second, or third aren't wrong about Lopez, but you go ahead on that little island.

I personally do not ever want to visit that island. I mean, it's just batsh*t insane to think that Lopez couldn't start on a team besides the Bucks. What a horrendous take.

[jbk1234]

Ironically I think Jarrett Allen is a little overrated. Despite being an agile rim protector, he’s only ok at switching on to guards and gets bullied by any opposing center with a little weight on them. On offense he’s simply a finisher and lob catcher, nothing more.

This isn't true at all. To describe Allen as just a finisher and lob catcher ignores his post game and great passing abilities, which were very valuable for our offense. At least watch the man play before you pretend you know his game.

Players who got 50+ post-up possessions this season: 67

Allen's ranks:

ppp: 0.80, 59/67 (18th percentile league wide)
ft freq: 11.1%, 51/67
efg%: 42.5%, 56/67

How exactly is that valuable to the Cavs? He's didn't score efficiently from the post nor did he draw fouls. A Lamar Stevens 3PA was better offense for the Cavs.

And the season before, he had the second highest FG% in the NBA, scoring 16 ppg on less than 10 apg. There's no way the Cavs are trading him for WCJ straight up. The O.P. admitted the value isn't fair, which frankly should've been the end of the discussion because the rest is just rationalizing a dumb choice that Altman won't make.

[TheLand13]

First off, Banchero does not have the potential to be better than Mobley

You're absolutely right, he has the potential to be MUCH better than Mobley.

And you're basing this on... what exactly?

Ironically I think Jarrett Allen is a little overrated. Despite being an agile rim protector, he’s only ok at switching on to guards and gets bullied by any opposing center with a little weight on them. On offense he’s simply a finisher and lob catcher, nothing more.

This isn't true at all. To describe Allen as just a finisher and lob catcher ignores his post game and great passing abilities, which were very valuable for our offense. At least watch the man play before you pretend you know his game.

Players who got 50+ post-up possessions this season: 67

Allen's ranks:

ppp: 0.80, 59/67 (18th percentile league wide)
ft freq: 11.1%, 51/67
efg%: 42.5%, 56/67

How exactly is that valuable to the Cavs? He's didn't score efficiently from the post nor did he draw fouls. A Lamar Stevens 3PA was better offense for the Cavs.

I should just put every single person who goes entirely off stats and doesn't watch to make their case on ignore. There's really no point when you see posts like this. It's like the people who claim someone isn't a good rim protector because they don't have a high blocks per game statline. Like... what else am I supposed to say at this point?

[JT3000]

And you're basing this on... what exactly?

The eye test. Mobley doesn't have nearly the offensive skills of Paolo right now, as we speak, much less the potential. The contrast will only become more stark as the team around Paolo improves & he improves his shot selection. You can talk up Mobley's defensive prowess, but we all saw him cave in the playoffs. He's overrated.

[meekrab]

maybe instead of adding the #11 pick (if it even conveys), the Magic can add a top 15 protected future 1st and this year's 36th pick. There arent a lot of centers the Cavs can trade Allen for that can shoot the 3 as well as WCJ. Wendell isnt a very good rim protector, but he can move really well for his size and he is strong enough to guard bigger players in the post when needed. The Cavs could then use the top 15 protected to trade for a SF and draft another one with the 33rd pick.

WCJ wouldn't be taking 3s for the Cavs anyway, 32% is bad. He's allowed to do that on the Magic because they suck.

[orlando_joe]

maybe instead of adding the #11 pick (if it even conveys), the Magic can add a top 15 protected future 1st and this year's 36th pick. There arent a lot of centers the Cavs can trade Allen for that can shoot the 3 as well as WCJ. Wendell isnt a very good rim protector, but he can move really well for his size and he is strong enough to guard bigger players in the post when needed. The Cavs could then use the top 15 protected to trade for a SF and draft another one with the 33rd pick.

WCJ wouldn't be taking 3s for the Cavs anyway, 32% is bad. He's allowed to do that on the Magic because they suck.

yes he would he was 5th best shooting 3 center this yr at just under 36% and is only getting better who you kidding..might want to check magic record after that 5 and 20 start they had with no point guards. no worries magic easy pass

[TheLand13]

And you're basing this on... what exactly?

The eye test. Mobley doesn't have nearly the offensive skills of Paolo right now, as we speak, much less the potential. The contrast will only become more stark as the team around Paolo improves & he improves his shot selection. You can talk up Mobley's defensive prowess, but we all saw him cave in the playoffs. He's overrated.

Mobley's potential is far greater than what we're seeing from Paolo so far. Mobley's offensive potential is through the roof and he's already a DPOY caliber player. And what do you mean we saw him cave in the playoffs? Defensively he did a fine job. Yeah, he got out worked and physically beaten up by the bigger stronger players. Oh no, he's got a thin frame. Literally nothing he can do about that from a skill aspect. It's on him to bulk up. Your logic is heavily flawed and has no basis on reality.

Oh and by the way, Mobley in his first year changed the Cavaliers completely and made them a playoff contender. Paolo didn't do that at all despite having sufficient talent around him to do so. There's a reason for that.

[JT3000]

And you're basing this on... what exactly?

The eye test. Mobley doesn't have nearly the offensive skills of Paolo right now, as we speak, much less the potential. The contrast will only become more stark as the team around Paolo improves & he improves his shot selection. You can talk up Mobley's defensive prowess, but we all saw him cave in the playoffs. He's overrated.

Mobley's potential is far greater than what we're seeing from Paolo so far. Mobley's offensive potential is through the roof and he's already a DPOY caliber player. And what do you mean we saw him cave in the playoffs? Defensively he did a fine job. Yeah, he got out worked and physically beaten up by the bigger stronger players. Oh no, he's got a thin frame. Literally nothing he can do about that from a skill aspect. It's on him to bulk up. Your logic is heavily flawed and has no basis on reality.

Oh and by the way, Mobley in his first year changed the Cavaliers completely and made them a playoff contender. Paolo didn't do that at all despite having sufficient talent around him to do so. There's a reason for that.

Yeah, let's pretend Mobley is the best player on his team and single-handedly transformed them as a rookie. I don't think so.

Suggesting that Mobley's potential is "far greater" than Banchero's just tells me you're one of the many folks who don't actually watch Banchero. If Mobley's offensive potential is "through the roof," why is he not averaging 20 or more? Paolo is his team's actual #1 from day 1, not just a supposed defensive anchor who's too scrawny to actually fill that role, and there's a reason why. He can shoulder that burden, Mobley cannot. There's no doubt the Cavs would be worse than the Magic if Mobley were their best player and they had no point guard for the first 25 games of the season (a role Paolo had to step in and fill for much of that time. As a rookie power forward!) Mobley's riding coattails.

Oh, and Banchero's 250 lbs. You say there's literally nothing Mobley can do about being too small to impose his will effectively, but Banchero literally doesn't have to do anything. He's either too fast or too strong for the opposing player(s), if not both. And he's a 20-year-old rookie.

[Magicman125]

I believe in Paolo, Suggs, and Franz's 3 pt shots improving, so I would do this trade for the upgrade on defense and rebounding Allen would bring.

[Residual-Heat]

maybe instead of adding the #11 pick (if it even conveys), the Magic can add a top 15 protected future 1st and this year's 36th pick. There arent a lot of centers the Cavs can trade Allen for that can shoot the 3 as well as WCJ. Wendell isnt a very good rim protector, but he can move really well for his size and he is strong enough to guard bigger players in the post when needed. The Cavs could then use the top 15 protected to trade for a SF and draft another one with the 33rd pick.

WCJ wouldn't be taking 3s for the Cavs anyway, 32% is bad. He's allowed to do that on the Magic because they suck.

He definitely would. He shot 35.6% this season. Name the centers that shot the 3 better than him this season? How many starting centers are better shooters? Myles Turner, Towns (though he had a bad year), Jokic are all better than Allen. Horford is likely unavailable for a trade. Then you have Lopez, Olynyk and WCJ. Lopez is a 35 year old FA. Maybe they can find a 3 team trade with Utah because they wouldnt want Allen with Kessler there.

The Magic wouldve been a 40 win team if they didnt suffer from injuries early on and tank the last few games. They still won 34 games, they dont suck.

[OrlMagic05]

This would be great for Olando because Claxton is younger and better than Allen at everything except FT shooting

I'm sorry, what?

Defense I will gladly concede Claxton is better at. But rebounding is still Allen. Claxon is not even close to being the passer Allen is. Allen is a superior scorer and if you want to try to argue otherwise, feel free to do so without using TS% because you're just setting yourself up for failure if you do that. Honestly this entire statement could not be more off base. Holy moly.

How about not simple..:

Banchero + Harris + #6 + #11 + 1sts as needed

FOR

Mobley + Mitchell

New Magic:
WCJ
Mobley
Wagner
Mitchell
Suggs

New Cavs:
Allen
Banchero
#6 (Thompson or Black or Dick)
Okoro | Harris | #11
Garland

Orlando would hang up the phone so quick if this was offered to them. Banchero has the Potential to be better than Mitchell and Mobley. You dont trade away that type of rookie unless you are getting a superstar in return.

First off, Banchero does not have the potential to be better than Mobley, at least based on what we're seeing so far. Mobley is already further in his development than any of us were expecting and he's still incredibly young. He's already a very skilled offensive player and was a DPOY finalist... at age 21. If Banchero truly does have any potential of being better, he better start working on the areas of his game outside of scoring, because he's going to need to be great in just about everything to be ahead of Mobley.

Second, let's not pretend that this isn't a bad trade for Cleveland either. On top of Mobley more than likely being better than Banchero (and I will continue to say most likely until Banchero demonstrates what I stated above), we're now giving up a superstar in Mitchell as well (you claim we aren't but that's banter. Mitchell is most definitely a superstar at this point). Maybe if Allen is who we're giving up, then sure. But giving up Mobley as well is just a bad idea all around. No way would Cleveland ever consider this.

All I have to say is 9.8ppg 10rebs .6blks in a playoff series and you think he has more potential than Banchero? Not saying Mobley is bad and he definitely has DPOY potential, but Paolo has MVP potential. Big difference. You say Paolo "better start working on areas of his game" but he just finished his rookie year, a rookie year that was on par with future MVP candidates (Luka, Carmelo, Lebron, KD)

[tidho]

Not sure how this went from Allen -4- Carter Jr., to Mobley vs. Banchero but - i think it's too early to make that call. Banchero has the offensive style which might propel him toward a higher tier than Mobley can reach, but so far he's been too inefficient to just assume he'll get there. Hopefully they prove it out in the ECF in a couple years.

As for Allen/Carter Jr., Allen is obviously worth more and it doesn't really seem like anyone is disputing that. I don't see a lot of folks reconciling the value either. I don't think CLE has an Allen problem. They have a roster construction problem and limited means to recover. No reason to believe Allen specifically will be how they attempt to address it though. They aren't going to split Garland/Mitchell, so they're going to need Allen. Best they can likely do this offseason is add a 3rd big to rotate with Allen and Mobley.

[Skybox]

And you're basing this on... what exactly?

The eye test. Mobley doesn't have nearly the offensive skills of Paolo right now, as we speak, much less the potential. The contrast will only become more stark as the team around Paolo improves & he improves his shot selection. You can talk up Mobley's defensive prowess, but we all saw him cave in the playoffs. He's overrated.

Mobley's potential is far greater than what we're seeing from Paolo so far. Mobley's offensive potential is through the roof and he's already a DPOY caliber player. And what do you mean we saw him cave in the playoffs? Defensively he did a fine job. Yeah, he got out worked and physically beaten up by the bigger stronger players. Oh no, he's got a thin frame. Literally nothing he can do about that from a skill aspect. It's on him to bulk up. Your logic is heavily flawed and has no basis on reality.

Oh and by the way, Mobley in his first year changed the Cavaliers completely and made them a playoff contender. Paolo didn't do that at all despite having sufficient talent around him to do so. There's a reason for that.

You can make an argument about Mobley vs Banchero, but I really don't expect you'd be getting universal agreement...or even close to it.

[TheLand13]

All I have to say is 9.8ppg 10rebs .6blks in a playoff series and you think he has more potential than Banchero? Not saying Mobley is bad and he definitely has DPOY potential, but Paolo has MVP potential. Big difference. You say Paolo "better start working on areas of his game" but he just finished his rookie year, a rookie year that was on par with future MVP candidates (Luka, Carmelo, Lebron, KD)

Paolo has MVP potential but Mobley doesn't? Are all magic fans this delusional?

Yeah, let's pretend Mobley is the best player on his team and single-handedly transformed them as a rookie. I don't think so.

You're going to have to do better than that. Putting words in someone's mouth and trying to steer the argument in another direction isn't a logical way to retort. At the very least you can try to be consistent with what's being discussed. This just gives me a reason to not take you seriously as a poster.

Suggesting that Mobley's potential is "far greater" than Banchero's just tells me you're one of the many folks who don't actually watch Banchero.

I love how you make this claim, and then for the rest of the post, you never once describe what I'm missing about his game that gives me any reason to think he'll be better.

If Mobley's offensive potential is "through the roof," why is he not averaging 20 or more?

You're asking why the third option on offense isn't averaging 20 points or more?

At this point I should just block you. Your retorts have been terrible to put it frankly.

Paolo is his team's actual #1 from day 1, not just a supposed defensive anchor who's too scrawny to actually fill that role, and there's a reason why. He can shoulder that burden, Mobley cannot. There's no doubt the Cavs would be worse than the Magic if Mobley were their best player and they had no point guard for the first 25 games of the season (a role Paolo had to step in and fill for much of that time. As a rookie power forward!) Mobley's riding coattails.

What are you implying when you say that Mobley is a "supposed" defensive anchor? Are you trying to imply that isn't the case?

And what do you have to base this off of? Let's just say for the moment that Garland is in fact no longer on the team. That still leaves him with Donovan Mitchell who didn't have much trouble winning the games Garland missed. In fact, screw it, take Mitchell out of the equation since he's the best player. You want to know what Mobley was doing when Mitchell actually was sitting? Averaging 20 PPG or more, and in some cases out right dominating legitimately good defenses (like when he lit up Brook Lopez who was a DPOY candidate and he struggled to contain him).

Oh, and Banchero's 250 lbs. You say there's literally nothing Mobley can do about being too small to impose his will effectively, but Banchero literally doesn't have to do anything. He's either too fast or too strong for the opposing player(s), if not both. And he's a 20-year-old rookie.

Again, you really need to stop putting words in my mouth. I make it perfectly clear what I mean in regards to the weight thing, which is that has nothing to do with the skill aspect of what we are talking about. But your retort does give me even more reason to think Mobley will be better. He's already a much better player than Paolo is now despite not even having that weight advantage yet. Now think what would happen if Mobley manages to get to 240 pounds for example? At that point, do you really think Paolo will have any kind of argument over him? You'd be horribly delusional to answer yes to that.

If Paolo can start working on other aspects of his game, my tune will change. Until then, I have no reason based on what I've seen to think he'll be better one day.

You can make an argument about Mobley vs Banchero, but I really don't expect you'd be getting universal agreement...or even close to it.

I really could care less if I get agreement from Magic fans or not. It'll end up exactly how it did with the Wagner vs Mobley debates where, for a while, a bunch of magic fans actually thought Wagner had an argument over him until it blew up spectacularly in their faces.

If you want me to change my tune, then at the very least give me a logical reason to. Until then, nothing I've seen from Paolo suggests he has the potential to be greater than what Mobley could be one day. He's going to have to polish his game out. The good news for you guys is that he has lots of time to do that, so it's not out of the realm of possibility by any means.

[OrlMagic05]

All I have to say is 9.8ppg 10rebs .6blks in a playoff series and you think he has more potential than Banchero? Not saying Mobley is bad and he definitely has DPOY potential, but Paolo has MVP potential. Big difference. You say Paolo "better start working on areas of his game" but he just finished his rookie year, a rookie year that was on par with future MVP candidates (Luka, Carmelo, Lebron, KD)

Paolo has MVP potential but Mobley doesn't? Are all magic fans this delusional?

Yeah, let's pretend Mobley is the best player on his team and single-handedly transformed them as a rookie. I don't think so.

You're going to have to do better than that. Putting words in someone's mouth and trying to steer the argument in another direction isn't a logical way to retort. At the very least you can try to be consistent with what's being discussed. This just gives me a reason to not take you seriously as a poster.

Suggesting that Mobley's potential is "far greater" than Banchero's just tells me you're one of the many folks who don't actually watch Banchero.

I love how you make this claim, and then for the rest of the post, you never once describe what I'm missing about his game that gives me any reason to think he'll be better.

If Mobley's offensive potential is "through the roof," why is he not averaging 20 or more?

You're asking why the third option on offense isn't averaging 20 points or more?

At this point I should just block you. Your retorts have been terrible to put it frankly.

Paolo is his team's actual #1 from day 1, not just a supposed defensive anchor who's too scrawny to actually fill that role, and there's a reason why. He can shoulder that burden, Mobley cannot. There's no doubt the Cavs would be worse than the Magic if Mobley were their best player and they had no point guard for the first 25 games of the season (a role Paolo had to step in and fill for much of that time. As a rookie power forward!) Mobley's riding coattails.

What are you implying when you say that Mobley is a "supposed" defensive anchor? Are you trying to imply that isn't the case?

And what do you have to base this off of? Let's just say for the moment that Garland is in fact no longer on the team. That still leaves him with Donovan Mitchell who didn't have much trouble winning the games Garland missed. In fact, screw it, take Mitchell out of the equation since he's the best player. You want to know what Mobley was doing when Mitchell actually was sitting? Averaging 20 PPG or more, and in some cases out right dominating legitimately good defenses (like when he lit up Brook Lopez who was a DPOY candidate and he struggled to contain him).

Oh, and Banchero's 250 lbs. You say there's literally nothing Mobley can do about being too small to impose his will effectively, but Banchero literally doesn't have to do anything. He's either too fast or too strong for the opposing player(s), if not both. And he's a 20-year-old rookie.

Again, you really need to stop putting words in my mouth. I make it perfectly clear what I mean in regards to the weight thing, which is that has nothing to do with the skill aspect of what we are talking about. But your retort does give me even more reason to think Mobley will be better. He's already a much better player than Paolo is now despite not even having that weight advantage yet. Now think what would happen if Mobley manages to get to 240 pounds for example? At that point, do you really think Paolo will have any kind of argument over him? You'd be horribly delusional to answer yes to that.

If Paolo can start working on other aspects of his game, my tune will change. Until then, I have no reason based on what I've seen to think he'll be better one day.

You can make an argument about Mobley vs Banchero, but I really don't expect you'd be getting universal agreement...or even close to it.

I really could care less if I get agreement from Magic fans or not. It'll end up exactly how it did with the Wagner vs Mobley debates where, for a while, a bunch of magic fans actually thought Wagner had an argument over him until it blew up spectacularly in their faces.

If you want me to change my tune, then at the very least give me a logical reason to. Until then, nothing I've seen from Paolo suggests he has the potential to be greater than what Mobley could be one day. He's going to have to polish his game out. The good news for you guys is that he has lots of time to do that, so it's not out of the realm of possibility by any means.

an MVP potential player does not fold the way Mobley did. PLease tell me how Mobley has MVP potential. Now DPOY, yes, but not MVP. His offensive game is limited and we all know that you have to be an offensive presence in order to be an MVP.

If he truly had MVP potential he would not be the 3rd option. He is a hell of a defensive player and wont be surprised if he does win a few DPOY awards, but he does not have the offensive skills to have MVP potential. Paolo rookie year was on par with Luka, KD, Lebron and other HOF.