Jimmy Butler trade value

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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#61 » by louc1970 » Tue May 7, 2024 4:30 pm

SNPA wrote:
Jkam31 wrote:
SNPA wrote:Why give up everything for 35 yr old Butler? If Sac is making that level offer there are other targets.


Giving up future picks to get 3-4 year championship run easy to pull the trigger. Yes he’s 35 but he won’t be carrying a heavy load especially in The regular season fox would still the number one scorer and Sabonis the facilitator. On defense he still wouldn’t carry the load with ellis and Murray’s being elite defenders. You do anything to get that 2-3 year window if you’re keeping Fox, Murray, and Sabonis

Contender window, I get it. There’s just a lot of other players Sac should make an all-in offer for before getting to 35 yr old Butler IMO.

Who would you target?
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#62 » by jayjaysee » Tue May 7, 2024 4:45 pm

louc1970 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:So…

Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, Sasha, 13th, 2027 top 4 protected, 2029 top 4 protected

Dump Barnes and/or Huerter on Detroit or some other team

Would Sac pay that kind of tax starting in year one?

Sabonis/Butler/Murray/Monk/Fox

Heat would most likely prefer Mitchell over Sasha. At least I would.


Clever.

Butler to Sac
Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, 13th, and 3 future (2 sac and 1 Miami) to Cleveland
Mitchell, Sasha to Miami

That gets Cleveland a couple nice vets around their trio and the trade base to be aggressive later if they want to.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#63 » by louc1970 » Tue May 7, 2024 5:40 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
louc1970 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:So…

Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, Sasha, 13th, 2027 top 4 protected, 2029 top 4 protected

Dump Barnes and/or Huerter on Detroit or some other team

Would Sac pay that kind of tax starting in year one?

Sabonis/Butler/Murray/Monk/Fox

Heat would most likely prefer Mitchell over Sasha. At least I would.


Clever.

Butler to Sac
Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, 13th, and 3 future (2 sac and 1 Miami) to Cleveland
Mitchell, Sasha to Miami

That gets Cleveland a couple nice vets around their trio and the trade base to be aggressive later if they want to.

I was thinking Davion Mitchell, but Donovan works.
Thinking a PG would be better than a little used PF.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#64 » by jayjaysee » Tue May 7, 2024 6:18 pm

louc1970 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
louc1970 wrote:Heat would most likely prefer Mitchell over Sasha. At least I would.


Clever.

Butler to Sac
Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, 13th, and 3 future (2 sac and 1 Miami) to Cleveland
Mitchell, Sasha to Miami

That gets Cleveland a couple nice vets around their trio and the trade base to be aggressive later if they want to.

I was thinking Davion Mitchell, but Donovan works.
Thinking a PG would be better than a little used PF.


Mitchell has more value than Sasha, so that part is better for Miami.. But I would think Miami could use Sasha more still? They’d have Rozier, Herro, JJJ, Robinson, and Huerter at the guard.. Not that any matter if you are resetting and maybe you just take the better value player.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#65 » by LightTheBeam » Tue May 7, 2024 6:26 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
louc1970 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:So…

Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, Sasha, 13th, 2027 top 4 protected, 2029 top 4 protected

Dump Barnes and/or Huerter on Detroit or some other team

Would Sac pay that kind of tax starting in year one?

Sabonis/Butler/Murray/Monk/Fox

Heat would most likely prefer Mitchell over Sasha. At least I would.


Clever.

Butler to Sac
Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, 13th, and 3 future (2 sac and 1 Miami) to Cleveland
Mitchell, Sasha to Miami

That gets Cleveland a couple nice vets around their trio and the trade base to be aggressive later if they want to.


This has us paying for Donovan and getting Jimmy. And while I love Jimmy and his fit on the team, id just take Donovan and hope we can convince him playing with Fox/Sabonis/Keegan is enough to go somewhere.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#66 » by Godaddycurse » Tue May 7, 2024 6:36 pm

LightTheBeam wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
louc1970 wrote:Heat would most likely prefer Mitchell over Sasha. At least I would.


Clever.

Butler to Sac
Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, 13th, and 3 future (2 sac and 1 Miami) to Cleveland
Mitchell, Sasha to Miami

That gets Cleveland a couple nice vets around their trio and the trade base to be aggressive later if they want to.


This has us paying for Donovan and getting Jimmy. And while I love Jimmy and his fit on the team, id just take Donovan and hope we can convince him playing with Fox/Sabonis/Keegan is enough to go somewhere.


Mitchell is a bigger flight risk though imo
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#67 » by jayjaysee » Tue May 7, 2024 8:18 pm

LightTheBeam wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
louc1970 wrote:Heat would most likely prefer Mitchell over Sasha. At least I would.


Clever.

Butler to Sac
Barnes, Huerter, Lyles, 13th, and 3 future (2 sac and 1 Miami) to Cleveland
Mitchell, Sasha to Miami

That gets Cleveland a couple nice vets around their trio and the trade base to be aggressive later if they want to.


This has us paying for Donovan and getting Jimmy. And while I love Jimmy and his fit on the team, id just take Donovan and hope we can convince him playing with Fox/Sabonis/Keegan is enough to go somewhere.


It was a bad idea to start honestly.

But, I’d guess Jimmy extends with whatever team he is traded to - if he “agrees” to be traded there.. Seems like the only hypothetical reason he is asking out or available is he wants an extension. If a team trades for him, they should be able to add an extra 2yr112 million on top of his player Option? Paying 38 year old Butler 57 mil? That’s the part that I’m not sure if Sac would actually sign off on.

But they should just for the next 2 years of Butler. Deal with the full decline when it happens.

And if it were Sac trading for Mitchell, it would need to include the 2031 Sac first as I had Miami adding a first..
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#68 » by nate33 » Tue May 7, 2024 8:42 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:On the whole narrative that he saves himself in the regular season and then turns it on in the playoffs... Jimmy Butler has played 64 playoff games with the Heat. In 20 of them, he's shot 40% from the floor or worse. He's missed 7 games as well.

The Heat don't have the same target on their back with the media as other deep playoff teams. They always get looked at as the little engine that could rather than dealing with burden and scrutiny of expectations. So Jimmy Butler gets the luxury of only being looked at for his great moments. He gets all the love for that, but it's ignored how one third of the time he either isn't available for his team or he shoots like crap.

Not trying to discredit that he's a great player. Just discredit the false narrative that he's a championship caliber #1 offensive player. His resume doesn't actually speak to that if you look deeper than the highlights of it. So for Miami, I think it gets tougher to justify super max contracts for non first option 35 year olds when the rest of the roster isn't enough to elevate the talent level to championship caliber.

Bad take.

In 4 playoff seasons with Miami, Butler has a WS/48 of .206, a BPM of 7.2. Those are absolutely elite numbers - better than Luka, Tatum, Durant and Paul George. His TS% is a pedestrian .581, but he averages 25, 7 and 6 while never turning the ball over and playing first rate defense. His ORtg is still an incredibly efficient 129.

You can certainly argue that Butler may not have as much value going forward because he can't stay healthy, but don't try and rewrite history to suggest he was only mediocre in the playoffs. He has been one of the very best playoff players in the league during his Miami run. I'm not sure if anyone has better advanced numbers except Giannis and Jokic.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#69 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue May 7, 2024 8:45 pm

It is 2024 and people are still arguing based off fg%.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#70 » by hugepatsfan » Tue May 7, 2024 8:53 pm

nate33 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:On the whole narrative that he saves himself in the regular season and then turns it on in the playoffs... Jimmy Butler has played 64 playoff games with the Heat. In 20 of them, he's shot 40% from the floor or worse. He's missed 7 games as well.

The Heat don't have the same target on their back with the media as other deep playoff teams. They always get looked at as the little engine that could rather than dealing with burden and scrutiny of expectations. So Jimmy Butler gets the luxury of only being looked at for his great moments. He gets all the love for that, but it's ignored how one third of the time he either isn't available for his team or he shoots like crap.

Not trying to discredit that he's a great player. Just discredit the false narrative that he's a championship caliber #1 offensive player. His resume doesn't actually speak to that if you look deeper than the highlights of it. So for Miami, I think it gets tougher to justify super max contracts for non first option 35 year olds when the rest of the roster isn't enough to elevate the talent level to championship caliber.

Bad take.

In 4 playoff seasons with Miami, Butler has a WS/48 of .206, a BPM of 7.2. Those are absolutely elite numbers - better than Luka, Tatum, Durant and Paul George. His TS% is a pedestrian .581, but he averages 25, 7 and 6 while never turning the ball over and playing first rate defense. His ORtg is still an incredibly efficient 129.

You can certainly argue that Butler may not have as much value going forward because he can't stay healthy, but don't try and rewrite history to suggest he was only mediocre in the playoffs. He has been one of the very best playoff players in the league during his Miami run. I'm not sure if anyone has better advanced numbers except Giannis and Jokic.


Not saying he's mediocre. Saying he isn't consistent enough game to game to be a championship level #1 offensive option for a team. There's an absolute crater between the two extremes you're turning this into of "mediocre" vs the "#1 offensive option on a championship team" level I'm discussing him as. His highs in the playoffs have been incredible, but the lows have been pretty bad. He has great playoff numbers overall but he achieves them by averaging out extreme highs and extreme lows. Between his injury history (not just missing games but playing banged up and less than full strength) and the lack of a 3 point shot (which can help smooth over your offense game to game) it's just hard to rely on him game to game.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#71 » by _GH0ST_ » Tue May 7, 2024 9:12 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
_GH0ST_ wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
It is absolutely fair to say Miami would be looking for a 3 teamer and help now. It comes across as juvenile to say picks are worthless, the linguistic distinction helps create a path towards better deals instead of just fans flaming each other with hyperbolic statements.


It is not possible for the team with Embiid, Maxey and Butler to have a bad regular season in the east. The Sixers' picks are definitely not interesting. The 2028 Clippers alone don't interest me. There is nothing wrong here. GSW or Lakers picks are definitely more valuable.

Many posts on your Sixers board say Butler doesn't even deserve a FRP lol


I don’t understand why the Clippers picks are less valuable than the Lakers or Warriors?

Warriors at least own all their future picks and have TJD/Kuminga/Podz..

AD is younger than Leonard, healthier than Leonard.. And the Lakers only own two firsts, so they can be active in trades. Maybe if they give LBJ an extra 3 year max they compare to the Clips? But right now they look primed to retool in 2026.

Clips have no year where they own their own first and can reset. They can either let their old stars walk and give OKC a lottery pick or keep their old stars and give Philly a great pick.

You misunderstood me. I talked about the Clippers pick that the Sixers own. In general, of course, the Clippers picks are likely to be more valuable, but the Sixers package is not interesting at all.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#72 » by Sportfan73 » Tue May 7, 2024 9:34 pm

_GH0ST_ wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
_GH0ST_ wrote:
It is not possible for the team with Embiid, Maxey and Butler to have a bad regular season in the east. The Sixers' picks are definitely not interesting. The 2028 Clippers alone don't interest me. There is nothing wrong here. GSW or Lakers picks are definitely more valuable.

Many posts on your Sixers board say Butler doesn't even deserve a FRP lol


I don’t understand why the Clippers picks are less valuable than the Lakers or Warriors?

Warriors at least own all their future picks and have TJD/Kuminga/Podz..

AD is younger than Leonard, healthier than Leonard.. And the Lakers only own two firsts, so they can be active in trades. Maybe if they give LBJ an extra 3 year max they compare to the Clips? But right now they look primed to retool in 2026.

Clips have no year where they own their own first and can reset. They can either let their old stars walk and give OKC a lottery pick or keep their old stars and give Philly a great pick.

You misunderstood me. I talked about the Clippers pick that the Sixers own. In general, of course, the Clippers picks are likely to be more valuable, but the Sixers package is not interesting at all.

I would suggest you get interested in it because it’s looking more likely by the day
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#73 » by BK_2020 » Tue May 7, 2024 9:41 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:It is 2024 and people are still arguing based off fg%.

FG% isn't the best metrics but it's also not meaningless especially when you are talking about sub 40%.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#74 » by NYG » Tue May 7, 2024 11:35 pm

Butler to OKC for ??
Butler to LAL for ??
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#75 » by NYG » Wed May 8, 2024 1:48 am

Dejounte Murray and 33 to Miami
Jimmy Butler to Milwaukee
Khris Middleton, 15 and 23 to Atlanta
Brook Lopez to Oklahoma City
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#76 » by BBallFreak » Wed May 8, 2024 3:43 am

NYG wrote:Dejounte Murray and 33 to Miami
Jimmy Butler to Milwaukee
Khris Middleton, 15 and 23 to Atlanta
Brook Lopez to Oklahoma City

Miami isn't dropping down in the draft to turn Jimmy into Dejounte. That's terrible value.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#77 » by slos » Wed May 8, 2024 5:33 am

I don’t think Miami fans would like the outcome of a 35 y/o Jimmy Butler trade. Given that he is a Marquette guy who tried to play with Dame last offseason I can see Milwaukee making an offer, but it would be something like this..

Lopez + Portis + Connaughton + #23 + 2031 FRP

Miami could do better, but honestly I don’t believe they can do much better if Butler forces his way out and makes a list.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#78 » by _GH0ST_ » Wed May 8, 2024 6:50 am

Sportfan73 wrote:
_GH0ST_ wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
I don’t understand why the Clippers picks are less valuable than the Lakers or Warriors?

Warriors at least own all their future picks and have TJD/Kuminga/Podz..

AD is younger than Leonard, healthier than Leonard.. And the Lakers only own two firsts, so they can be active in trades. Maybe if they give LBJ an extra 3 year max they compare to the Clips? But right now they look primed to retool in 2026.

Clips have no year where they own their own first and can reset. They can either let their old stars walk and give OKC a lottery pick or keep their old stars and give Philly a great pick.

You misunderstood me. I talked about the Clippers pick that the Sixers own. In general, of course, the Clippers picks are likely to be more valuable, but the Sixers package is not interesting at all.

I would suggest you get interested in it because it’s looking more likely by the day

Last season, most agreed that Dame would eventually be traded to Miami. I think Butler re-signing is the most likely option right now.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#79 » by BBallFreak » Wed May 8, 2024 12:02 pm

slos wrote:I don’t think Miami fans would like the outcome of a 35 y/o Jimmy Butler trade. Given that he is a Marquette guy who tried to play with Dame last offseason I can see Milwaukee making an offer, but it would be something like this..

Lopez + Portis + Connaughton + #23 + 2031 FRP

Miami could do better, but honestly I don’t believe they can do much better if Butler forces his way out and makes a list.

That's pretty bad, but if his list has two teams, we'll get better than that.
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Re: Jimmy Butler trade value 

Post#80 » by PhillyNj » Wed May 8, 2024 12:41 pm

Honestly, the Butler situation looks Alot like the Lillard situation oflast year.
I thinkthe Bucks have ruined their team.
My guess is whoever gets Butler next will do the same.
That said Miami is getting nothing in return of value.

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