Trae Young moves

[Ball4life32]

Calling Dillingham "A pretty close prospect to Trae" and preferring Derrick White over Trae are both massive disrespect for Trae, Dillingham is a decent undersized 2 guard with all the pros and the cons it presents, including being a liability on the defensive end and not having the playmaking skills of a true PG (His playmaking skills are decent, but he's a combo guard and it shows).
Derrick white is a solid perimeter defender with a reliable outside shot, he's nowhere near Trae offensively in just about every aspect.

Trae Young is one of the only two players ever to lead NCAA division 1 in both scoring and assists in the same season, the other one who's done it wears #22 and plays for Iowa. Trae is also one of the only two players ever to lead the NBA in both scoring and assists in the same season (In total points scored and total assists, not to be confused with the assists and scoring title which go by ppg and apg), his playmaking abilities are those of an elite true PG and he has elite scoring ability to boot. And for all the talk about how Trae is supposed to be some massive defensive liability, he is -0.7 in defensive EPM this season, not great but perfectly acceptable when you produce as much offensively as he does, and most elite PGs are straight up trash on defense as well.

If the Hawks actually do put Trae on the market, Spurs would be absolutely foolish to not call ATL and enquire, especially as they can offer the Hawks their picks back which is a unique advantage other teams don't have.

Arguing in favor of Trae while calling anyone else a "liability on the defensive end" breaks the irony scale.
Furthermore, calling Derrick White a "solid perimeter defender" is the understatement of the year, the guy is all NBA caliber defensively, in fact the gap between those 2 on defense is much larger than it is on offense.
Also, I find it hilarious how people are quick to point out whatever random stat as if it somehow overrides the overwhelming empirical evidence that he's a traffic cone on defense and inefficient on offense (awful shooting numbers, high TOs, etc) that teams routinely exploit to cause his team's demise. In the playoffs he shoots barely 40% from the field and below 30% from 3, with 4.4 TOs per game. He puts up big numbers at the expense of his team, and he's the exact prototype of what I would avoid to build around (inefficient offense, horrendous defense, high usage, undersized, high cost, etc).
If he's so wonderful, then why doesn't Atlanta find it easier to build a winner around him, rather than pushing him down somebody else's throat? You'd think such a great player would be easy to build around, yet they've tried for years and they always come up short and nothing works.
All in all, I believe this would be a shortsighted move for the Spurs that would cost a lot and prove disastrous in the end, the kind that sets your team back 10 years perhaps (no more picks or assets, puts a cap on your ceiling, etc). The overwhelming majority of these blockbuster trades end in disaster, and small market teams that are successful don't usually build that way. Good luck to the Hawks but I want Trae nowhere near San Antonio.

Man, I agree 100% with you. Any team that thinks they can build a team around Trae will always be a treadmill team. He's a guy who can get his stats, but it's almost never conducive to winning ball. My team, the Jazz, need a point guard of the future badly, and I would take Derrick White 100 times out of 100. So tired of seeing these people simping for Trae. Put up or shut up. Until then I don't need to hear about how he's always so underlooked as his team limps along once again.

Hawks ranks in offensive efficiency last 4 years

#9
#2
#6
#7 (currently)

Averaging 27/11 and leads a Top 10 offense 4 years in a row with him as #1 but isn’t conductive to winning ball is so off base. And yes he’s bad defensively but hawks have been bad defensively even when he’s not on the court. Hawks are terrible defensively, that’s why they haven’t been winning but no way Trae is all to blame for that.

[BK_2020]

Calling Dillingham "A pretty close prospect to Trae" and preferring Derrick White over Trae are both massive disrespect for Trae, Dillingham is a decent undersized 2 guard with all the pros and the cons it presents, including being a liability on the defensive end and not having the playmaking skills of a true PG (His playmaking skills are decent, but he's a combo guard and it shows).
Derrick white is a solid perimeter defender with a reliable outside shot, he's nowhere near Trae offensively in just about every aspect.

Trae Young is one of the only two players ever to lead NCAA division 1 in both scoring and assists in the same season, the other one who's done it wears #22 and plays for Iowa. Trae is also one of the only two players ever to lead the NBA in both scoring and assists in the same season (In total points scored and total assists, not to be confused with the assists and scoring title which go by ppg and apg), his playmaking abilities are those of an elite true PG and he has elite scoring ability to boot. And for all the talk about how Trae is supposed to be some massive defensive liability, he is -0.7 in defensive EPM this season, not great but perfectly acceptable when you produce as much offensively as he does, and most elite PGs are straight up trash on defense as well.

If the Hawks actually do put Trae on the market, Spurs would be absolutely foolish to not call ATL and enquire, especially as they can offer the Hawks their picks back which is a unique advantage other teams don't have.

Arguing in favor of Trae while calling anyone else a "liability on the defensive end" breaks the irony scale.
Furthermore, calling Derrick White a "solid perimeter defender" is the understatement of the year, the guy is all NBA caliber defensively, in fact the gap between those 2 on defense is much larger than it is on offense.
Also, I find it hilarious how people are quick to point out whatever random stat as if it somehow overrides the overwhelming empirical evidence that he's a traffic cone on defense and inefficient on offense (awful shooting numbers, high TOs, etc) that teams routinely exploit to cause his team's demise. In the playoffs he shoots barely 40% from the field and below 30% from 3, with 4.4 TOs per game. He puts up big numbers at the expense of his team, and he's the exact prototype of what I would avoid to build around (inefficient offense, horrendous defense, high usage, undersized, high cost, etc).
If he's so wonderful, then why doesn't Atlanta find it easier to build a winner around him, rather than pushing him down somebody else's throat? You'd think such a great player would be easy to build around, yet they've tried for years and they always come up short and nothing works.
All in all, I believe this would be a shortsighted move for the Spurs that would cost a lot and prove disastrous in the end, the kind that sets your team back 10 years perhaps (no more picks or assets, puts a cap on your ceiling, etc). The overwhelming majority of these blockbuster trades end in disaster, and small market teams that are successful don't usually build that way. Good luck to the Hawks but I want Trae nowhere near San Antonio.

Man, I agree 100% with you. Any team that thinks they can build a team around Trae will always be a treadmill team. He's a guy who can get his stats, but it's almost never conducive to winning ball. My team, the Jazz, need a point guard of the future badly, and I would take Derrick White 100 times out of 100. So tired of seeing these people simping for Trae. Put up or shut up. Until then I don't need to hear about how he's always so underlooked as his team limps along once again.

How many times did the Spurs make the playoffs with Dejounte and White?

[Hoppy1]

Which of the Nets picks is slated to be a late first rounder? None of these that were listed are. Which ones???

Are you expecting the Suns to blow up Booker/KD/Beal after one season? Because otherwise that '25 Suns pick looks like a late pick.

Embiid is under contract through 2027 and presumably Maxey will be too once he signs his max extension, so I wouldn't count on that being a great pick either.

That being said, I think I'd probably take the Brooklyn offer over the LAL offer here anyway. JHS is nothing more than a throw in at this point and Vincent is a negative value contract, albeit a small one.

Disagree, Reaves is by far the best player in the two packages and those lakers picks have far better upside than the Suns picks. Reaves is on a great contract and would figure to fit well with Johnson, Hunter and Murray.

Vincent (assuming he’s healthy) should appeal to a contender on a smallish contract but otherwise only has 2 years remaining at the time of the trade.

Those picks the nets can offer are pretty sus, none may be higher than 20th.

A couple of those picks are for players not growing facial hair. That is a long time to wait for a team like Atlanta. They need instant growth and positive action, not wait and hope.

[shakes0]

Maybe, but that wouldn’t make for an interesting trade discussion forum. If they offer is 3 unprotected firsts from the lakers, a swap or two, Reaves + filler I think they’d have to think hard about it.

Yeah that's precisely what a team that's full of interesting players and all-stars wants, draft picks that are 5-6 years out.
Actually, no that's stupid. They won't think hard about it at all.

My brother in Christ, those future lakers picks are some of the best assets out there. LBJ and Davis are gone by then and we’ve seen the lakers bottom out before. If you don’t understand the value of the potential of those picks I don’t know what to say.

Add in to that a player like Reaves on the contract he’s on and the fit with their other players and it’s a home run.

those Lakers picks are nothing but fools gold. In 64 seasons since moving to LA, the Lakers have bottomed out exactly one time. That 6 year drought they had after they tried building around Kobe for too long. Other than that, they have missed the playoffs a whopping 6x in 58 years.

If you had to bet your mortgage on either the Lakers bottoming out in 2029 or the Lakers completely re-tooling in the FA market and being a contender in 2029 no one with a brain would bet the former.

[wemby]

Arguing in favor of Trae while calling anyone else a "liability on the defensive end" breaks the irony scale.
Furthermore, calling Derrick White a "solid perimeter defender" is the understatement of the year, the guy is all NBA caliber defensively, in fact the gap between those 2 on defense is much larger than it is on offense.
Also, I find it hilarious how people are quick to point out whatever random stat as if it somehow overrides the overwhelming empirical evidence that he's a traffic cone on defense and inefficient on offense (awful shooting numbers, high TOs, etc) that teams routinely exploit to cause his team's demise. In the playoffs he shoots barely 40% from the field and below 30% from 3, with 4.4 TOs per game. He puts up big numbers at the expense of his team, and he's the exact prototype of what I would avoid to build around (inefficient offense, horrendous defense, high usage, undersized, high cost, etc).
If he's so wonderful, then why doesn't Atlanta find it easier to build a winner around him, rather than pushing him down somebody else's throat? You'd think such a great player would be easy to build around, yet they've tried for years and they always come up short and nothing works.
All in all, I believe this would be a shortsighted move for the Spurs that would cost a lot and prove disastrous in the end, the kind that sets your team back 10 years perhaps (no more picks or assets, puts a cap on your ceiling, etc). The overwhelming majority of these blockbuster trades end in disaster, and small market teams that are successful don't usually build that way. Good luck to the Hawks but I want Trae nowhere near San Antonio.

Man, I agree 100% with you. Any team that thinks they can build a team around Trae will always be a treadmill team. He's a guy who can get his stats, but it's almost never conducive to winning ball. My team, the Jazz, need a point guard of the future badly, and I would take Derrick White 100 times out of 100. So tired of seeing these people simping for Trae. Put up or shut up. Until then I don't need to hear about how he's always so underlooked as his team limps along once again.

How many times did the Spurs make the playoffs with Dejounte and White?

3 with Dejounte, 2 with White. Now you'll scream context (they were very young), and I'll screat context right back at you (look at the Spurs roster when they didn't make the playoffs). This is why these trick answers are pointless.

[shakes0]

Man, I agree 100% with you. Any team that thinks they can build a team around Trae will always be a treadmill team. He's a guy who can get his stats, but it's almost never conducive to winning ball. My team, the Jazz, need a point guard of the future badly, and I would take Derrick White 100 times out of 100. So tired of seeing these people simping for Trae. Put up or shut up. Until then I don't need to hear about how he's always so underlooked as his team limps along once again.

How many times did the Spurs make the playoffs with Dejounte and White?

3 with Dejounte, 2 with White. Now you'll scream context (they were very young), and I'll screat context right back at you (look at the Spurs roster when they didn't make the playoffs). This is why these trick answers are pointless.

so in other words, they never made the playoffs once they got rid of Derozan. DJM has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team. Heck, Derrick White has never made the playoffs as one of the FOUR best players on a team.

[Texas Chuck]

Can we try and stay on topic? Or has this thread run its course?

[JKiddy]

Which of the Nets picks is slated to be a late first rounder? None of these that were listed are. Which ones???

Are you expecting the Suns to blow up Booker/KD/Beal after one season? Because otherwise that '25 Suns pick looks like a late pick.

Embiid is under contract through 2027 and presumably Maxey will be too once he signs his max extension, so I wouldn't count on that being a great pick either.

That being said, I think I'd probably take the Brooklyn offer over the LAL offer here anyway. JHS is nothing more than a throw in at this point and Vincent is a negative value contract, albeit a small one.

Disagree, Reaves is by far the best player in the two packages and those lakers picks have far better upside than the Suns picks. Reaves is on a great contract and would figure to fit well with Johnson, Hunter and Murray.

Vincent (assuming he’s healthy) should appeal to a contender on a smallish contract but otherwise only has 2 years remaining at the time of the trade.

Those picks the nets can offer are pretty sus, none may be higher than 20th.

The Nets picks are the most valuable in the league at this moment. I agree with you in that the 2025 Suns pick will not be great.

But, the other Suns picks will be there when they have blown up the Suns after Beal and Durant have retired. They have no picks to retool. They went all in for this group.

The Mavs pick in 2029 is super valuable because Luka will likely be gone and if he is not Kyrie definitely will be.

The Sixers pick might also be extremely valuable as Embiid might not stay there for his career either.

Point being, the Nets are in the drivers seat here. They can pass on Trae and look elsewhere which would give teams like the Lakers hope. But, it seems like it might be rough for a year or so for a few teams.

Bring this back in a year and let's see what happens!

[wemby]

How many times did the Spurs make the playoffs with Dejounte and White?

3 with Dejounte, 2 with White. Now you'll scream context (they were very young), and I'll screat context right back at you (look at the Spurs roster when they didn't make the playoffs). This is why these trick answers are pointless.

so in other words, they never made the playoffs once they got rid of Derozan. DJM has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team. Heck, Derrick White has never made the playoffs as one of the FOUR best players on a team.

Who were the 4 players on last years' Celtics that were better than Derrick White?
But more importantly, neither Derrick White nor Dejounte Murray are getting paid max money, and no one is expecting them to command superstar package (5+ lottery picks and young players) for them.

[BK_2020]

3 with Dejounte, 2 with White. Now you'll scream context (they were very young), and I'll screat context right back at you (look at the Spurs roster when they didn't make the playoffs). This is why these trick answers are pointless.

so in other words, they never made the playoffs once they got rid of Derozan. DJM has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team. Heck, Derrick White has never made the playoffs as one of the FOUR best players on a team.

Who were the 4 players on last years' Celtics that were better than Derrick White?
But more importantly, neither Derrick White nor Dejounte Murray are getting paid max money, and no one is expecting them to command superstar package (5+ lottery picks and young players) for them.

Yeah but people are claiming that a high end roleplayer like Derrick White will produce more wins than Trae Young in the same situation. I think that's silly, don't you?

[wemby]

so in other words, they never made the playoffs once they got rid of Derozan. DJM has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team. Heck, Derrick White has never made the playoffs as one of the FOUR best players on a team.

Who were the 4 players on last years' Celtics that were better than Derrick White?
But more importantly, neither Derrick White nor Dejounte Murray are getting paid max money, and no one is expecting them to command superstar package (5+ lottery picks and young players) for them.

Yeah but people are claiming that a high end roleplayer like Derrick White will produce more wins than Trae Young in the same situation. I think that's silly, don't you?

No, at least what I said is that I'd rather have Derrick White than Trae Young, all things considered (assets, salary, roster construction, etc). But if you want to go there: would swapping Derrick White for Trae Young give the Celtics a better or worse chance at a championship? Boxscores aren't everything, and there's only so much usage to go around...

[shakes0]

3 with Dejounte, 2 with White. Now you'll scream context (they were very young), and I'll screat context right back at you (look at the Spurs roster when they didn't make the playoffs). This is why these trick answers are pointless.

so in other words, they never made the playoffs once they got rid of Derozan. DJM has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team. Heck, Derrick White has never made the playoffs as one of the FOUR best players on a team.

Who were the 4 players on last years' Celtics that were better than Derrick White?
But more importantly, neither Derrick White nor Dejounte Murray are getting paid max money, and no one is expecting them to command superstar package (5+ lottery picks and young players) for them.

this is the year he's playing at a supposed all star level and he's the 5th best player on the team.

I doubt he's ever seen a double team in his entire NBA career.


To answer your question, last year on the Celtics the following players were all better than White:

Tatum
Brown
Smart

Then he was in the same class as these guys battling for 4th best player on the roster status
Brogdon
Horford


White is nothing but a glorified rotation player. When he is on the floor he is being guarded by the worst defensive player on the other team. You think he puts up numbers if he is top of the other teams' scouting reports? You think he shoots that well if all his 3s are with a hand in his face as opposed to wide open in the corner because the other team barely notices he is on the floor.


You can't compare Trae to White. They are basically playing in different leagues from each other. Trae is headlining the big stage. White is a stagehand.

[Celts17Pride]

I expect Trae Young to remain with the Hawks because I believe what the Hawks want in return doesn't come close to what teams are willing to offer for Trae Young. I believe that Trae Young doesn't have the market value that the Hawks think he does.This is always the problem with Trae Young. Just look at what happened with the Dejounte Murray trade talks. Hawks best chance for improvement will be internal improvement.

[wemby]

To answer your question, last year on the Celtics the following players were all better than White:

Tatum
Brown
Smart

Then he was in the same class as these guys battling for 4th best player on the roster status
Brogdon
Horford

Sure, that's why Brad Stevens sent Smart & Brogdon packing rather than Derrick White. It's hard for me to take you seriously after this, but I'll try.

White is nothing but a glorified rotation player. When he is on the floor he is being guarded by the worst defensive player on the other team. You think he puts up numbers if he is top of the other teams' scouting reports? You think he shoots that well if all his 3s are with a hand in his face as opposed to wide open in the corner because the other team barely notices he is on the floor.

You can't compare Trae to White. They are basically playing in different leagues from each other. Trae is headlining the big stage. White is a stagehand.

They're different players, sure. And my point is that I'd much rather use the assets & salary that Trae Young would command on Derrick White type players.

[shakes0]

Sure, that's why Brad Stevens sent Smart & Brogdon packing rather than Derrick White. It's hard for me to take you seriously after this, but I'll try.

so if a player is traded that means that any players remaining on that team are automatically better than the departed players? Is that really the formula you're trying to pass off as logic?


Clippers traded SGA and kept Landry Shamet. By your logic, Shamet is better than SGA.


Also are we just completely ignoring the other teams in the trades, i.e. the team that asked for those players rather than White? I'm pretty sure that's how trades work. Its not like teams asked Boston for a random player of Boston's choosing.



Just pointing this out to emphasize who dumb your logic is above.

[azuresou1]

Can we try and stay on topic? Or has this thread run its course?

I think it's time to close this one down

[jarryd3107]

Yeah that's precisely what a team that's full of interesting players and all-stars wants, draft picks that are 5-6 years out.
Actually, no that's stupid. They won't think hard about it at all.

My brother in Christ, those future lakers picks are some of the best assets out there. LBJ and Davis are gone by then and we’ve seen the lakers bottom out before. If you don’t understand the value of the potential of those picks I don’t know what to say.

Add in to that a player like Reaves on the contract he’s on and the fit with their other players and it’s a home run.

Yeah I forgot the Lakers can't replace their players just forced to bottom out. Also Trae Young won't be there in 2029 because why not? It's practically a top 3 pick.

How did it go last time the lakers just assumed stars would fill their cap space? I seem to remember them being a perennial play in team. Have a look at the looming free agents over the next few seasons, is there a super team in there?

Also, Young is almost on a lottery team that has far more talent than the Lakers may have in 3 years. If absolutely take that bet.

[jarryd3107]

Are you expecting the Suns to blow up Booker/KD/Beal after one season? Because otherwise that '25 Suns pick looks like a late pick.

Embiid is under contract through 2027 and presumably Maxey will be too once he signs his max extension, so I wouldn't count on that being a great pick either.

That being said, I think I'd probably take the Brooklyn offer over the LAL offer here anyway. JHS is nothing more than a throw in at this point and Vincent is a negative value contract, albeit a small one.

Disagree, Reaves is by far the best player in the two packages and those lakers picks have far better upside than the Suns picks. Reaves is on a great contract and would figure to fit well with Johnson, Hunter and Murray.

Vincent (assuming he’s healthy) should appeal to a contender on a smallish contract but otherwise only has 2 years remaining at the time of the trade.

Those picks the nets can offer are pretty sus, none may be higher than 20th.

A couple of those picks are for players not growing facial hair. That is a long time to wait for a team like Atlanta. They need instant growth and positive action, not wait and hope.

Austin Reaves is a really good young player on a great contract. Vincent has shown what he can do in the playoffs and big spots and is only on $10m per year. The hawks stay competitive (and maybe have better balance) while accruing draft capital for further moves.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Another way to look at it is Young has much higher value than Murray in a trade so why not bring in a haul and build around their other young pieces? This is essentially similar to the Kings cashing in on Haliburton to build around Fox.

A hawks 5 of Capela, Okongwu, Johnson, Reaves and Murray is pretty interesting (assuming they take the lakers package).

Uh, why won't the Pacers trade Haliburton so they can build around Nembhard and Myles Turner? Why don't the Celtics trade Tatum so they can build around Jaylen Brown and Payton Pritchard? Because you don't build around mediocre players. Look at the Nets and see what that looks like. At least for the Nets there's some sense in it since they can attract free agents. If Atlanta trades away Trae there's like 1% chance they get a player as good as him back in the draft or in FA for the next 10 years at least.

Bad take. Teams often trade a star to rebuild, see recent examples like Durant, Mitchell, Gobert etc. Trading Young would allow them to get good players now to stay competitive while amassing draft capital to either use or trade.

It’s been 6 years with Trae and they haven’t been able to build a consistent winner with him, might be time to cash in and move on.

There's only 1 team worth letting go of Trae for, and that's SA due to them having control of our FRP's for 3 straight years. I'm honestly not even a big fan of doing that either. OKC has the picks, but I doubt OKC makes a move for what would be another ball dominant PG. The proper thing for us to do currently, is to retool around Trae and JJ.

The FO has overvalued mediocre talents and extended them. Why? IDK. Hopefully with a veteran coach like Quin, Landry can get an idea of what really needs to be surrounding Trae.

We might not be able to get top 3 or 5 draft picks, but who knows, maybe the Spurs are still a bottom-ish team, and we don't have to swap in 2026. Maybe we nab a top 8 pick 2025 after trading our vets, and get a high upside prospect. Ideally, if JJ continues to bud, we'll have a 2nd piece along with Trae, making it easier to fill in adequate pieces to the puzzle.

Sure we could focus more on building a team around DJ, but at best, we'd have the flexibility to put together a team that's better constructed in terms of fits and direction. We no longer have the offensive motor to keep us in games, and I doubt the acquiring team gets us another.

[wemby]

Sure, that's why Brad Stevens sent Smart & Brogdon packing rather than Derrick White. It's hard for me to take you seriously after this, but I'll try.

so if a player is traded that means that any players remaining on that team are automatically better than the departed players? Is that really the formula you're trying to pass off as logic?

Clippers traded SGA and kept Landry Shamet. By your logic, Shamet is better than SGA.

Also are we just completely ignoring the other teams in the trades, i.e. the team that asked for those players rather than White? I'm pretty sure that's how trades work. Its not like teams asked Boston for a random player of Boston's choosing.

Just pointing this out to emphasize who dumb your logic is above.

If a player is traded because his team prefers to build their future on someone else, yes, it does speak loud and clear.

Concerning the circumstances surrounding SGA's trade from the Clippers to OKC, it is well known that the Clippers tried to keep him away from negotiations but it was a deal breaker for OKC, and since Kawhi DEMANDED the Clippers landed Paul George for him to sign as a free agent, the Clippers reluctantly caved in and let go of SGA in order to get both Kawhi and Paul George. In fact Doc Rivers spoke recently about this, he confessed he asked if there was any other way and there wasn't.

As it pertains the specific White/Celtics case, you're disingenuously trying to put into question the circumstances of those trades, when it is well known that the Celtics had already tried to move Brandon to the Clippers (for a late 1st I believe) and it ultimately fell apart because of medical concerns on the part of the buyers, so it was the Celtics actively looking to move Brogdon (more than once). As for Smart, he was clearly getting outplayed by Derrick White and the Celtics made him available, with no reports indicating Derrick White was, but rather the opposite is true.

So I don't know what it is you're trying to accomplish here by twisting very well known circumstances to fit your narrative, that is not an honest or smart way to make your case. I can understand you having a preference and standing by it, but this isn't the way to go about it.