RealGM

Wolveswin wrote:

giberish wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:I think you over value Kuminga. If we look at previous star trades as our comps, picks are valued most - without a doubt. Kuminga would be lucky to be the Sexton/Markkanen (at time of trade) or Kessler ‘filler’ that were sent out in previous star trades. 100% the side dish to multiple picks as the main course.

Warriors getting their 2030 pick has major future trade value. Frees up 2x picks - of their own which would have most value in league. Way more than what Kuminga equals.

4x GSW 1sts >> 2x GSW + meh 1st from Kuminga trade (or Kuminga himself)

If Warriors are all in, for a star that makes a chip run realistic, they need all their draft capital which has considerable more value than their meh youth.

Gutting out the Warriors future that much for a 1 or 2 year run of being a secondary title contender is completely nuts. I don't see a scenario where GS is trading more than 2 future 1sts anyways so the Washington pick is irrelevant.

Looking at the general types of stars that might be traded, I'd put them into 4 types:

1) The young or youngish long-term guys. While great to get, in the unlikely event one is on the market OKC or SA or someone will outbid what GS can offer.

2) The flight risks. While GS is a relatively desirable market it's tough to see someone sticking around as Curry fades and the team has no youth/picks. (also Mitchell - the most obvious guy in this group - is a bad fit anyways).

3) The older guys where you're hoping to milk the last 1-3 years of high-level play. This is the market GS would be looking at (more asset-rich but younger teams like OKC wouldn't be interested). GS's competition would be LAL and perhaps Philly (Phoenix an LAC might be interested but have nothing to trade). GS can make competitive offers without going more than 2 1sts out.

4) The quasi-stars. Guys with some combination of contract/fame/PPG to look like a star without making a star impact. Obviously shouldn't offer too much for these guys.

Problem with alllll of that is GSW isn’t making bids on these guys in a vacuum. So many teams with way better assets will be in the hunt.

As I prefaced my original post, IF Warriors are going star hunting (which means keeping Paul - not needing negative’ish Wiggins as salary ballast) then they need to prime their asset game. 2x 1sts and current GSW youth most teams will see as meh (especially when Kuminga has only 1 rookie year left on contract) is going to reap no rewards. I mean, unless overpaying for LaVine types.

TimeisIllmatic wrote:They're pretty much stuck in no man's land.

No one wants Wiggins' contract,
Curry and Draymond are staying unless one or both of them request a trade
Klay should either walk or sign an inflated "farewell" 1 year deal
Podziemski makes Moody expendable so I expect Moody to be traded (plus didn't Moody complain about his role this year?)
CP3 will be gone
Kuminga will probably sign an extension at some point next season

The Warriors do draft well so I have no concern about their future.

babyjax13 wrote:GSW trade: Brandin Podzemski
WAS trades: 2030 GSW 1st (1-20 protected, otherwise 2nd), Patrick Baldwin Jr., 2024 PHX 2nd, 2025 PHX 2nd

The irony trade. Golden State cuts salary and opens up picks to trade, Washington gets a good prospect in the backcourt who can help their offense.

GSW trade: Andrew Wiggins, Gary Payton II, 2025 GSW 1st, 2027 GSW 1st, 2029 GSW 1st, 2031 GSW 1st, swap(s)?
CLE trades: Donovan Mitchell

Golden State makes a splashy move for a star, Cleveland recoups enough picks to package for a star and solidifies its rotation at small forward.

GSW trade: Chris Paul, Kevon Looney, Moses Moody
ATL trades: Clint Capela, De'Andre Hunter

Golden State gets a starting caliber center in the archetype that Mitchell has done the best with. They also add a 3/4 who can shoot. Atlanta drops future salary and replaces Hunter and Capela in their rotation with cheaper options.


Capela/TJD/Green
Green/Baldwin/Hunter
Hunter/Thompson
Mitchell/Thompson
Curry/???

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:GSW trade: Brandin Podzemski
WAS trades: 2030 GSW 1st (1-20 protected, otherwise 2nd), Patrick Baldwin Jr., 2024 PHX 2nd, 2025 PHX 2nd

The irony trade. Golden State cuts salary and opens up picks to trade, Washington gets a good prospect in the backcourt who can help their offense.

GSW trade: Andrew Wiggins, Gary Payton II, 2025 GSW 1st, 2027 GSW 1st, 2029 GSW 1st, 2031 GSW 1st, swap(s)?
CLE trades: Donovan Mitchell

Golden State makes a splashy move for a star, Cleveland recoups enough picks to package for a star and solidifies its rotation at small forward.

GSW trade: Chris Paul, Kevon Looney, Moses Moody
ATL trades: Clint Capela, De'Andre Hunter

Golden State gets a starting caliber center in the archetype that Mitchell has done the best with. They also add a 3/4 who can shoot. Atlanta drops future salary and replaces Hunter and Capela in their rotation with cheaper options.


Capela/TJD/Green
Green/Baldwin/Hunter
Hunter/Thompson
Mitchell/Thompson
Curry/???

Pretty sure that puts them into 2nd apron and make the above trades illegal

Capela + Hunter + Green + Curry + Mitchell is already close to 160M. That leaves them 30M for 9 spots. I doubt Klay takes less than MLE

babyjax13 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:GSW trade: Brandin Podzemski
WAS trades: 2030 GSW 1st (1-20 protected, otherwise 2nd), Patrick Baldwin Jr., 2024 PHX 2nd, 2025 PHX 2nd

The irony trade. Golden State cuts salary and opens up picks to trade, Washington gets a good prospect in the backcourt who can help their offense.

GSW trade: Andrew Wiggins, Gary Payton II, 2025 GSW 1st, 2027 GSW 1st, 2029 GSW 1st, 2031 GSW 1st, swap(s)?
CLE trades: Donovan Mitchell

Golden State makes a splashy move for a star, Cleveland recoups enough picks to package for a star and solidifies its rotation at small forward.

GSW trade: Chris Paul, Kevon Looney, Moses Moody
ATL trades: Clint Capela, De'Andre Hunter

Golden State gets a starting caliber center in the archetype that Mitchell has done the best with. They also add a 3/4 who can shoot. Atlanta drops future salary and replaces Hunter and Capela in their rotation with cheaper options.


Capela/TJD/Green
Green/Baldwin/Hunter
Hunter/Thompson
Mitchell/Thompson
Curry/???

Pretty sure that puts them into 2nd apron and make the above trades illegal

Capela + Hunter + Green + Curry + Mitchell is already close to 160M. That leaves them 30M for 9 spots. I doubt Klay takes less than MLE

Each one of these trades should reduce their payroll slightly.

babyjax13 wrote:GSW trade: Brandin Podzemski
WAS trades: 2030 GSW 1st (1-20 protected, otherwise 2nd), Patrick Baldwin Jr., 2024 PHX 2nd, 2025 PHX 2nd

The irony trade. Golden State cuts salary and opens up picks to trade, Washington gets a good prospect in the backcourt who can help their offense.

GSW trade: Andrew Wiggins, Gary Payton II, 2025 GSW 1st, 2027 GSW 1st, 2029 GSW 1st, 2031 GSW 1st, swap(s)?
CLE trades: Donovan Mitchell

Golden State makes a splashy move for a star, Cleveland recoups enough picks to package for a star and solidifies its rotation at small forward.

GSW trade: Chris Paul, Kevon Looney, Moses Moody
ATL trades: Clint Capela, De'Andre Hunter

Golden State gets a starting caliber center in the archetype that Mitchell has done the best with. They also add a 3/4 who can shoot. Atlanta drops future salary and replaces Hunter and Capela in their rotation with cheaper options.


Capela/TJD/Green
Green/Baldwin/Hunter
Hunter/Thompson
Mitchell/Thompson
Curry/???

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:
Pretty sure that puts them into 2nd apron and make the above trades illegal

Capela + Hunter + Green + Curry + Mitchell is already close to 160M. That leaves them 30M for 9 spots. I doubt Klay takes less than MLE

Each one of these trades should reduce their payroll slightly.

Nope.

CPIII + Looney + Moody = 43.8M outgoing
Capela + Hunter = 43.9M incoming + 1.1M for minimum caphold

Wiggins + GPII outgoing = 35.4M outgoing
Mitchell = 35.4M incoming + 1.1M for minimum caphold

Curry and Dray makes close to 80M, so you have 159M for 5 players only. 2nd apron is ~189 or 190M (i forgot). Thats near impossible to fit in Klay and fill out roster

babyjax13 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:
Each one of these trades should reduce their payroll slightly.

Nope.

CPIII + Looney + Moody = 43.8M outgoing
Capela + Hunter = 43.9M incoming + 1.1M for minimum caphold

Wiggins + GPII outgoing = 35.4M outgoing
Mitchell = 35.4M incoming + 1.1M for minimum caphold

Curry and Dray makes close to 80M, so you have 159M for 5 players only. 2nd apron is ~189 or 190M (i forgot). Thats near impossible to fit in Klay and fill out roster

I don't think the capholds are counted as part of the trade? The Warriors are already in essentially the same position, that is only a 2.3 million dollar difference in payroll if you add the capholds and .1 million difference in the CPIII trade (add Santos and it is fine). They have bird rights on Thompson, so they should also be able to keep him. Add some veteran ring chasers, and yah, depth is not great, but the upper-end talent is much better.

giberish wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:GSW trade: Brandin Podzemski
WAS trades: 2030 GSW 1st (1-20 protected, otherwise 2nd), Patrick Baldwin Jr., 2024 PHX 2nd, 2025 PHX 2nd

The irony trade. Golden State cuts salary and opens up picks to trade, Washington gets a good prospect in the backcourt who can help their offense.

GSW trade: Andrew Wiggins, Gary Payton II, 2025 GSW 1st, 2027 GSW 1st, 2029 GSW 1st, 2031 GSW 1st, swap(s)?
CLE trades: Donovan Mitchell

Golden State makes a splashy move for a star, Cleveland recoups enough picks to package for a star and solidifies its rotation at small forward.

GSW trade: Chris Paul, Kevon Looney, Moses Moody
ATL trades: Clint Capela, De'Andre Hunter

Golden State gets a starting caliber center in the archetype that Mitchell has done the best with. They also add a 3/4 who can shoot. Atlanta drops future salary and replaces Hunter and Capela in their rotation with cheaper options.


Capela/TJD/Green
Green/Baldwin/Hunter
Hunter/Thompson
Mitchell/Thompson
Curry/???

So GS is left with a starting backcourt that won't work on defense, a starting PF/C with no range, a frequently injured starting SF and no depth.

They'd also have a huge payroll, no future picks and why is Michell resigning with a clearly sinking ship next summer?

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:
Nope.

CPIII + Looney + Moody = 43.8M outgoing
Capela + Hunter = 43.9M incoming + 1.1M for minimum caphold

Wiggins + GPII outgoing = 35.4M outgoing
Mitchell = 35.4M incoming + 1.1M for minimum caphold

Curry and Dray makes close to 80M, so you have 159M for 5 players only. 2nd apron is ~189 or 190M (i forgot). Thats near impossible to fit in Klay and fill out roster

I don't think the capholds are counted as part of the trade? The Warriors are already in essentially the same position, that is only a 2.3 million dollar difference in payroll if you add the capholds and .1 million difference in the CPIII trade (add Santos and it is fine). They have bird rights on Thompson, so they should also be able to keep him. Add some veteran ring chasers, and yah, depth is not great, but the upper-end talent is much better.

the caphold is pointing out that with your trades you are bringing them closer to 2nd apron. If they make a trade that aggregate salaries/bring in more than 100% then they are hard capped/cant enter 2nd apron i believe

babyjax13 wrote:

giberish wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:GSW trade: Brandin Podzemski
WAS trades: 2030 GSW 1st (1-20 protected, otherwise 2nd), Patrick Baldwin Jr., 2024 PHX 2nd, 2025 PHX 2nd

The irony trade. Golden State cuts salary and opens up picks to trade, Washington gets a good prospect in the backcourt who can help their offense.

GSW trade: Andrew Wiggins, Gary Payton II, 2025 GSW 1st, 2027 GSW 1st, 2029 GSW 1st, 2031 GSW 1st, swap(s)?
CLE trades: Donovan Mitchell

Golden State makes a splashy move for a star, Cleveland recoups enough picks to package for a star and solidifies its rotation at small forward.

GSW trade: Chris Paul, Kevon Looney, Moses Moody
ATL trades: Clint Capela, De'Andre Hunter

Golden State gets a starting caliber center in the archetype that Mitchell has done the best with. They also add a 3/4 who can shoot. Atlanta drops future salary and replaces Hunter and Capela in their rotation with cheaper options.


Capela/TJD/Green
Green/Baldwin/Hunter
Hunter/Thompson
Mitchell/Thompson
Curry/???

So GS is left with a starting backcourt that won't work on defense, a starting PF/C with no range, a frequently injured starting SF and no depth.

They'd also have a huge payroll, no future picks and why is Michell resigning with a clearly sinking ship next summer?

What Golden State should and will do are two different things. I think they will try to improve their team by trading young players for veterans, but they should trade Curry and rebuild because their time as a contender is over.

If they have all their picks, though, Mitchell and Curry is a playoff team, I don't really think that's up for debate, and the only team that will have space for Donovan that might be more appealing is the Lakers. He could just sign a 2 or 3 year deal, see if he and Curry can get things done, then leave. This assume Golden State is motivated to try for one more championship with Curry and to do that they need second star.

The other option would be Ingram, who makes more on-court sense, but I'm not sure they can get him since New Orleans is going to be more motivated to stay in the playoff race.

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:

TimeisIllmatic wrote:They're pretty much stuck in no man's land.

No one wants Wiggins' contract,
Curry and Draymond are staying unless one or both of them request a trade
Klay should either walk or sign an inflated "farewell" 1 year deal
Podziemski makes Moody expendable so I expect Moody to be traded (plus didn't Moody complain about his role this year?)
CP3 will be gone
Kuminga will probably sign an extension at some point next season

The Warriors do draft well so I have no concern about their future.

No. You're thinking of just about every Warriors fan. I'm not sure *why* Moody didn't complain about his role.

NYG wrote:I think it's...

Let CP3 Go
Bring back Klay for 3/54
Wiggins for THJ and Maxi
Moody and Looney for Isaiah Stewart
Sign 2 veteran minimum point guards and fill out the roster

gswhoops wrote:

NYG wrote:I think it's...

Let CP3 Go
Bring back Klay for 3/54
Wiggins for THJ and Maxi
Moody and Looney for Isaiah Stewart
Sign 2 veteran minimum point guards and fill out the roster

That leaves us with:

Stewart / TJD
Draymond / Maxi / Gui
Kuminga / THJ
Klay / GP2
Curry / Podz

As far as a "low key" offseason goes, this is a pretty good outcome. The fact that Stewart can step out beyond the arc makes the Dray/JK lineups much more viable.

Colbinii wrote:

gswhoops wrote:

NYG wrote:I think it's...

Let CP3 Go
Bring back Klay for 3/54
Wiggins for THJ and Maxi
Moody and Looney for Isaiah Stewart
Sign 2 veteran minimum point guards and fill out the roster

That leaves us with:

Stewart / TJD
Draymond / Maxi / Gui
Kuminga / THJ
Klay / GP2
Curry / Podz

As far as a "low key" offseason goes, this is a pretty good outcome. The fact that Stewart can step out beyond the arc makes the Dray/JK lineups much more viable.

Seems weird to just commit to fighting for the 8-10 seed.

gswhoops wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

gswhoops wrote:That leaves us with:

Stewart / TJD
Draymond / Maxi / Gui
Kuminga / THJ
Klay / GP2
Curry / Podz

As far as a "low key" offseason goes, this is a pretty good outcome. The fact that Stewart can step out beyond the arc makes the Dray/JK lineups much more viable.

Seems weird to just commit to fighting for the 8-10 seed.

Sadly I'm not really sure we have a better option. I don't see a path to true contention unless something crazy happens like Embiid or KD asks out, or Kuminga takes a cosmic leap in year 4. But we owe it to Steph to at least put a competitive team around him.