Thoughts in General, Random Rumors and Musings, Blah Blah 14.0 Eddie Najera Edicion

[jayjaysee]

If the Nets punt to 2025...

Claxton for Jonas (1 year deal) and Nance Jr. + pick in a double sign and trade?

It’s not a terrible idea, but I assume Jonas wants either the biggest money or maybe to play in games that matter. Going to Brooklyn and showing he can take 15 shots a game doesn’t help either of those things.

[jayu70]

Trae leaving Klutch.

Read on Twitter

[Texas Chuck]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

[K_chile22]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

If portland did turn down positive value for williams I think they made a big mistake given where their tax situation is

[Godaddycurse]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

They had higher peaks as productive starters when (if) healthy? I dont think they are worth that much though either. Neutral at best.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Trae leaving Klutch feels like it reduces the odds of Trae to LA a lot.

Trae has a financial incentive to sabotage any trade talks because he can realistically get a 35% supermax from the Hawks so I assume he'll try to stay in Atlanta and the Hawks end up moving Murray.

[psman2]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

Missing nothing, just some wishcasting. Same with WCJ, has a subpar playoffs and is injury prone but yet some Orlando fans expound him being misused and having great trade value to another team. Centers after the top 15 or so just don't carry a ton of trade value in the modern era. Like Dallas landing Gafford for pick 29.... that is around what to expect for a healthy center getting back in a trade that is not inside of the top 15. Another example, Jarrett Allen traded for a late 1st before fully breaking out a couple of years ago, but still much more desired at the time than the current MRob, RWill, WCJ of the world.

Now of course Memphis is the market for a center so one could take this take as bias, but I think recent trade history shows that that level of center is just not worth much, and when you toss in injuries or a bad contract(Ayton) it gets even more bleak.

edit: The Poeltl trade is a weird offshoot here. Toronto made a very shortsighted trade with those protections for a guy the caliper of Poeltl. You have to imagine that when they made the trade they factored in that that pick was very likely going to be a mid 1st at best with FVV likely reupping(he didn't), but still not sure why they didn't protect that pick more. I don't think anyone was going to beat their offer even if it was top 10-12 protected.

[DoItALL9]

If Mitchell Robinson is out for the year could the Knicks sign Dwight Howard right now?

[HartfordWhalers]

For those who missed it, Gronk is paying 1.9m and Oladipo is paying 500k for shilling Vogayer crypto.

Apparently they felt the case against them was so bad those losses (plus possibly ~800k in attorney fees for the plaintiffs that might be charged to them also) was better than betting on the court case. The remaining court case includes a couple of big names... Marc Cuban and Dallas Mavericks. Oh, and the whole NBA too apparently, along with their law firm, but that is a separate case.

I have no idea how the Cuban sale was set up in terms of this outstanding liability, but it is going to be very interesting.
Cuban has mediation May 14th and a tentative trial in October supposedly.

[jbk1234]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

Is they're some type of consensus that they are positive assets? I mean outside of the fanbases who would like them valued that way.

[tester551]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

Regarding Portland and RWIII -> I don't think any of the Portland fans that I've interacted with are out there 'selling' him and trying to get a positive return. I don't think I've seen a single proposal made by a Blazer fan that included RWIII.

It's just Portland will not dump him or pay to get off his contract. IMO -> It's more the "he's worth more to us than he is to you". Portland is better off at this point to let him start next season as a Blazer and see if he can develop positive value by the trade deadline.

[Astaluego]

This trade will not happen, but what do you think...?

HAWKS
In:Gobert
Out: Okongwu/Murray

Hawks get the best player in the deal and a real compliment to TraeY

WOLVES
In:Murray/OO
Out:Gobert

The Wolves destroyed Denver without Rudy and played excellent defense, this trade gives them 2 pieces that fit really well, young people... which would lengthen their title window several years and improve their already incredible depth

[zimpy27]

DeJounte on the move for sure. I think he'd pair well with Mitchell in a backcourt somewhere.

[NYG]

The injured centers -- one thing I keep seeing is fairly high values still being set on Robert Williams and to a lessor extent Mitchell Robinson -- but Mavs fans understand that Maxi Kleber being hurt all the time makes him a negative contract. And sure enough Robinson and Kleber both hurt again in the playoffs.

So why are Robinson and Williams still valued not only as assets(I don't see how either guy could be at this point) but assets worth a significant return?

What am I missing? Neither are dominant players when they do play. They are fine bottom half of the league starting centers, something we typically don't value highly even when guys are available.

So serious question, what am I missing?

I think in Mitchell Robinson's case its just... why trade him? We already have picks so if someone wanted him we would need incentive to give him up. I don't see anything realistically worth Robinson as more valuable than just keeping Robinson.

[wolves_89]

This trade will not happen, but what do you think...?

HAWKS
In:Gobert
Out: Okongwu/Murray

Hawks get the best player in the deal and a real compliment to TraeY

WOLVES
In:Murray/OO
Out:Gobert

The Wolves destroyed Denver without Rudy and played excellent defense, this trade gives them 2 pieces that fit really well, young people... which would lengthen their title window several years and improve their already incredible depth

I don't think there is enough salary savings to make this even remotely interesting to Minnesota. Plus, the additional years of salary (especially for Okongwu) are a fairly big negative. If the Wolves make a big trade this offseason it is pretty much a certainty that the deal will result in a significant reduction in payroll.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Read on Twitter

[NYG]

This might be my toughest mock off-season ever...

A) The new CBA paints me into a corner a lot and I have to re-start the whole thing.
B) Holy crow, this board has a very wide valuation of the guys likely to be traded this off-season
C) A lot of fan bases have unrealistic expectations for players likely to be traded this off-season

So threading that needle is going to be tough, but I think I have a general direction. I'll dive in further after the draft lottery and Round 2 are finished. Usually, teams in the Conference Finals aren't going to let the results change what they do much unless something unexpected and significant is exposed.

[SkyHook]

For those who missed it, Gronk is paying 1.9m and Oladipo is paying 500k for shilling Vogayer crypto.

Apparently they felt the case against them was so bad those losses (plus possibly ~800k in attorney fees for the plaintiffs that might be charged to them also) was better than betting on the court case. The remaining court case includes a couple of big names... Marc Cuban and Dallas Mavericks. Oh, and the whole NBA too apparently, along with their law firm, but that is a separate case.

I have no idea how the Cuban sale was set up in terms of this outstanding liability, but it is going to be very interesting.
Cuban has mediation May 14th and a tentative trial in October supposedly.

Tom Brady got roasted over this too.

https://youtube.com/shorts/8-GGMi6iK9g

[Texas Chuck]

C) A lot of fan bases have unrealistic expectations for players likely to be traded this off-season

Look, I'm telling you, Tim Hardaway Jr definitely is worth a lottery pick(I mean this is the worst draft ever). Might be worth a bit more honestly. And if Dallas is willing to include Dwight Powell we are probably talking about a top 3 pick. But Dwight is basically Mr. Maverick so he requires a huge overpay. You know he's worth more to us than you, but you still need to pay the more to us price.

[NYG]

C) A lot of fan bases have unrealistic expectations for players likely to be traded this off-season

Look, I'm telling you, Tim Hardaway Jr definitely is worth a lottery pick(I mean this is the worst draft ever). Might be worth a bit more honestly. And if Dallas is willing to include Dwight Powell we are probably talking about a top 3 pick. But Dwight is basically Mr. Maverick so he requires a huge overpay. You know he's worth more to us than you, but you still need to pay the more to us price.

Wait... you mean THJ? He's an expiring contract and thus would need to be re-signed to a market value contract so that works against him in value. But maybe you're due 2 picks because the expiring matching salary coming back to Dallas is a bad player so the other team needs to give the Mavs a pick to get off of him and then a pick for Hardaway Jr.?