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daoneandonly wrote:John Collins deserves an honorable mention at the very least

Yes. Unlike players like Lavine, Beal, Towns and Lillard who have proven to be high-level players in the NBA at their peaks, John Collins never approached that level and never will.

There is upside in the aforementioned stars--there isn't with Collins.

The name of the game is to outscore your opponents. Front offices want to acquire players that have the chance to do that.

So if we compared John Collins and Karl Anthony Towns, Collins might give a team better production/dollar. But KAT would likely have more trade value, because he would likely produce more in his minutes, and that extra production might help a team win.

After so many years on this board, and watching real life teams give more in trade for stars than I would predict, I have finally decided a “bad” contract does not necessarily mean negative trade value.

daoneandonly wrote:John Collins deserves an honorable mention at the very least

No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Colbinii wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:John Collins deserves an honorable mention at the very least

Yes. Unlike players like Lavine, Beal, Towns and Lillard who have proven to be high-level players in the NBA at their peaks, John Collins never approached that level and never will.

There is upside in the aforementioned stars--there isn't with Collins.

LaVine and Beal are injury prone and likely to not play in 50% of the teams games making 2X the money collins is. And Colliins contract is short, yes he's over paid but not like those guys. Towns and Lillard have value but their contracts are massive.

Maybe this topic should be "most over paid" and 2nd topic "worst/lowest trade value."

I'm just so happy not to see Duncan Robinson on this list.

basketballwacko2 wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:John Collins deserves an honorable mention at the very least

No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Collins cannot play PF at all anymore. He's a pure center and he's the worst defensive center in the NBA.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:John Collins deserves an honorable mention at the very least

No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Collins cannot play PF at all anymore. He's a pure center and he's the worst defensive center in the NBA.

Any thing to support those claims? I think both are pretty far off. He plays PF and C, and is by no means a good defender, but he is far from the worst in the league. DBPM is below average but not terrible. His motor is pretty variable but he can D up at times.
He is over paid, but quite underrated in here. I think he still suffers from fans way to high expectations. He is not a star but is a serviceable NBA big that can play both PF and C.

brackdan70 wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:
No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Collins cannot play PF at all anymore. He's a pure center and he's the worst defensive center in the NBA.

Any thing to support those claims? I think both are pretty far off. He plays PF and C, and is by no means a good defender, but he is far from the worst in the league.

I’ve always wondered that since winning NBA games is about outcompeting most opponents, whether we’d see a correlation between salary and positional rank. For example, if Collins is the, say 23rd best center, how does his salary compare to the 22 above him? I’m too lazy today to deal with position ranks on a Sunday, but I think the aberrations might show us the best and worst contracts.

brackdan70 wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:
No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Collins cannot play PF at all anymore. He's a pure center and he's the worst defensive center in the NBA.

Any thing to support those claims? I think both are pretty far off. He plays PF and C, and is by no means a good defender, but he is far from the worst in the league. DBPM is below average but not terrible. His motor is pretty variable but he can D up at times.
He is over paid, but quite underrated in here. I think he still suffers from fans way to high expectations. He is not a star but is a serviceable NBA big that can play both PF and C.

Well we tried many times to play him at PF this year and it was a complete failure that caused us to bench Walker Kessler for the entire season because Collins can only play center.

The Jazz's DRtg is 7.4 worse with Collins on the court, the team DRtg is 124.1 with him on the court.

This would be the worst measure in the NBA... By four points.

And the worst mark in NBA history by four points as well.

And note that the Jazz, despite having an average defense with Collins on the bench, are the worst defensive team in the NBA.

He's just way too small to play center and nowhere near skilled enough to play PF.

penbeast0 wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
LOL Not even close.

What?

Have you ever heard of Gilbert Arenas?

If it was "Worst ever!" Gilbert would have to be up there, but then it's all relative based on the cap % there have been some whoppers and guys who were good got paid and then rolled over like a dead whale on the beach.

Juwan Howard, Gil Arenas, John Wall, Brad Beal, Jordan Poole . . . take the Wizards half of the top 10 worst contracts in NBA history who is left?

There is an unwritten rule in this league that the Washington Wizards must always have a top 5 worst contract. It's just not acceptable for them to have a clean cap sheet. It's been like that since Gilbert Arenas resigned. It was Arenas > Rashard Lewis > Okafor > Blatche > Mahinmi > Wall > Beal > Poole

basketballwacko2 wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:John Collins deserves an honorable mention at the very least

No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Unless something crazy happens, I think it's safe to assume he's opting in.

Hmmm with the new CBA I think teams are wise that you can't have your third best player on a max.

So Ayton, Beal, LaVine might be really bad even though they aren't bad players.

Poole and Wiggins look yuck.

The rest are fine tbh

zimpy27 wrote:Hmmm with the new CBA I think teams are wise that you can't have your third best player on a max.

I think you can have your third best player on a max as long as your team is prepared for the limitations and financials.

IMO you just need to have a top 8ish rotation you’re comfortable with and willing to pay before jumping the apron.

Picking on Minnesota. If they were willing to pay both Anderson and Morris this offseason, what difference does the second apron and its restrictions do to them? They’d have their top 9 set through Rudy’s years or at least have matching contracts for retooling.

Not comparing talent/teams, but Cleveland is in the same pick debt situation as Minnesota and Gilbert will have next season to set the bench up for a 4-5+ year run over the tax if Mitchell extends and Mobley gets his max.. And they can do so while ducking the tax next year if they choose.. All up to Mitchell really but interesting.

LAC have a top 7-8 they’re confident in for a 2-3 year run as long as Leonard is healthy..

For Dallas specifically.. I still build a deal around THJ/Maxi for Wiggins if it’s there this offseason..

brackdan70 wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:
No Collins has 2 years at $26.5 million and the final season is a Player option. He's a PF shooting 35% from 3 range, 14.6 points, 8.5 rebs, 1 block, and he's been healthy most of the year. I think he gets a bad rap from last year and it's carried over.

Collins cannot play PF at all anymore. He's a pure center and he's the worst defensive center in the NBA.

Any thing to support those claims? I think both are pretty far off. He plays PF and C, and is by no means a good defender, but he is far from the worst in the league. DBPM is below average but not terrible. His motor is pretty variable but he can D up at times.
He is over paid, but quite underrated in here. I think he still suffers from fans way to high expectations. He is not a star but is a serviceable NBA big that can play both PF and C.

CTG has him at 47% of his minutes at PF and they are a -14.8 (oof) in that time vs -1.7 at C

The Clippers' core is already falling apart and looks extremely old less than one full season in, I'm pretty doubtful they're confident at all in being able to contend for the next 2-3 years.

There's a reason why Paul George hasn't gotten an extension.

I'll never take this board's views on worst contracts seriously after it voted MPJ's the 2nd worst in the league.

nomansland wrote:I'll never take this board's views on worst contracts seriously after it voted MPJ's the 2nd worst in the league.

Remember, any of these votes is just a snapshot in time. I suspect that result happened after he signed a max extension and then had his significant back problems recur. Congrats that he has been much better, but that wasn’t the clear outcome at the time of the poll, and I’m sure you would admit there was a tremendous amount of risk giving him the max back then.

shrink wrote:

nomansland wrote:I'll never take this board's views on worst contracts seriously after it voted MPJ's the 2nd worst in the league.

Remember, any of these votes is just a snapshot in time. I suspect that result happened after he signed a max extension and then had his significant back problems recur. Congrats that he has been much better, but that wasn’t the clear outcome at the time of the poll, and I’m sure you would admit there was a tremendous amount of risk giving him the max back then.

I'm pretty sure the vote was already after he had been playing again, and he hasn't had trouble with his back since.

I admit it was a bit of a gamble but I still think that vote was an excessive pile-on by the board. But, whatever. That's the internet for ya.

nomansland wrote:I'll never take this board's views on worst contracts seriously after it voted MPJ's the 2nd worst in the league.

Well he did have 3 pretty major back injuries, that's a little scary...