Jaden Ivey trade value

[wemby]

IMO a good starting point to assess Ivey's value would be comparing him to Isaiah Collier, who plays the same position, is about the same size, athletic (less agile but stronger), excels at getting to the rim but struggles shooting, good passer but often plays out of control and that leads to turnovers, etc. Ivey was the more accomplished college player but required 2 seasons to get there, while Collier is a freshman, 2 and a half years younger, and with 2 more years of team control before making a decision. Personally I'd take my chances on Collier, but probably some team would rather have Ivey instead, so I think whatever position Collier is projected to go in this draft is close to what Ivey would be, which apparently is about late lottery to late teens. If some team offered a pick in that range or a player whose value lies in the same ballpark, and the Pistons don't feel like investing in Ivey anymore, then that would be a fair deal IMO. But I'd prefer a youngish 3&D vet type if I were the Pistons.

[eitanr]

I agree DET shouldn't move him for picks now (or more realistically "pick"). Maybe in a package for a win-now player.

Having said that, I'd love to give him a look in ORL. Wouldn't stop me from going for a proven upgrade like Dejounte Murray, etc at the same time, but, if the price were just a frp or even a frp + a couple of seconds - I'd jump on it for ORL.

How about...

ORL sends WCJ, Cole Anthony, ORL 24 frp, DEN 25 frp
DEN sends Ivey, Duren

I'd say WCJ > Duren at the moment, and plays a much more versatile game (but Duren does ONLY what ORL needs at C-and does it better than WCJ). I could see WCJ, in a more featured role, increasing his points and rebounds considerably. WCJ is even versatile enough to play next to Wiseman sometimes, for a big lineup. I know Duren is a success in DET, but he's a limited role player and DET has a pretty clear frontcourt slate to build on. Cole is basically what Ivey is, but Ivey has (maybe) a higher ceiling. Two FRPs in the next year are valuable, even if used for trade fodder. DET has too many on-ball guys, so moving Ivey out isn't really painful...Ivey wasn't an ideal pick, but clearly BPA for a team starting a rebuild had to be the way. Now, Thompson & Sasser join the list of guys that can play on-ball, along with their designated star-Cade. This trade basically, imo, makes DET better day 1, but also gives a solid return for a quick reset on top of the offensive improvement both incoming players bring immediately.

From ORL side, they actually clear even more cap space (although they face frightening extensions over the next three years. I figure they take a long look at Ivey and hope he works out...but, even if he doesn't, Duren is the kind of physical role player that fits better next to Paolo & Franz (simply banging in the paint, catching lobs, grabbing rebounds, and playing tough D). Duren might be the ideal young, springy piece of Granite that Mosely can turn into a DPOY.

I actually think a WCJ for Ivey swap has merit

I think the Pelicans are a target for Detroit. There are a few possibilities there.

First, the Pels will need to move off from CJ and he may have some slight negative value now given the size of the contract. Does Duren for CJ and Murphy work? If not CJ, how about just Murphy? The Pistons may just do Ivey/Duren FOR Murphy/CJ as well.

If Ivey is kept, and Detroit drafts a raw big like Sarr, WCJ is a nice stop gap 5 who can help even out the lineup.

Agree WCJ for Ivey has some merit

I have no idea why DET would want to trade Duren for Anthony and some meh picks, though. And if Orlando is making WCJ available, they have to be thinking that filling the C spot with some combo of Isaac/Goga/MoWagner is good value for money, in which case I don't think ORL would want to pay the trade price for Duren

[MotownMadness]

Ivey for Magic 2024 1st (#18)?

It would give Orlando a replacement for Fultz with a guy with potentially more upside than Fultz and cheaper.

It would give Pistons ability to add a bigger guard or wing at #18.

No way, im not even happy at the top of the draft let alone 18. I do think he gets traded though cause he clearly needs the ball in his hands to become anything.

[I_Love_This_Game!!]

What about a trade for Cam Thomas? Detroit get a guard who can score with a decent 3 point shot and Brooklyn gets the higher upside prospect.

[vege]

What about a trade for Cam Thomas? Detroit get a guard who can score with a decent 3 point shot and Brooklyn gets the higher upside prospect.

The last thing Detroit need is an inneficient high volume 0 defense guard next to Cade, we need the opposite. Cam Thomas is garbage. Give me Cam Johnson. High BBIQ, good shooter good defender, ugly contract tho.

[BDM22]

Sam Vecenie said he'd trade the #5 or 6 pick in this year's draft for Ivey.

[tmorgan]

Sam Vecenie said he'd trade the #5 or 6 pick in this year's draft for Ivey.

Which is probably close to accurate.

It’s also fair to say Ivey has lost significant value with his level of play, because #5 or #6 in this draft probably wouldn’t be a lottery pick in most years. This draft sucks hard.

[BDM22]

Sam Vecenie said he'd trade the #5 or 6 pick in this year's draft for Ivey.

Which is probably close to accurate.

It’s also fair to say Ivey has lost significant value with his level of play, because #5 or #6 in this draft probably wouldn’t be a lottery pick in most years. This draft sucks hard.

There's the natural loss of years of a controlled contract also. Even if Ivey you operate under the idea that Ivey was worth the #5 pick in 2022, he's automatically worth less than the #5 in an equivalent draft now that there are only 2 years left on the rookie deal.

But yeah, this draft is so bad, Sam also said he thought Ivey has more upside than anyone in this draft.

[Kalamazoo317]

I agree DET shouldn't move him for picks now (or more realistically "pick"). Maybe in a package for a win-now player.

Having said that, I'd love to give him a look in ORL. Wouldn't stop me from going for a proven upgrade like Dejounte Murray, etc at the same time, but, if the price were just a frp or even a frp + a couple of seconds - I'd jump on it for ORL.

How about...

ORL sends WCJ, Cole Anthony, ORL 24 frp, DEN 25 frp
DEN sends Ivey, Duren

I'd say WCJ > Duren at the moment, and plays a much more versatile game (but Duren does ONLY what ORL needs at C-and does it better than WCJ). I could see WCJ, in a more featured role, increasing his points and rebounds considerably. WCJ is even versatile enough to play next to Wiseman sometimes, for a big lineup. I know Duren is a success in DET, but he's a limited role player and DET has a pretty clear frontcourt slate to build on. Cole is basically what Ivey is, but Ivey has (maybe) a higher ceiling. Two FRPs in the next year are valuable, even if used for trade fodder. DET has too many on-ball guys, so moving Ivey out isn't really painful...Ivey wasn't an ideal pick, but clearly BPA for a team starting a rebuild had to be the way. Now, Thompson & Sasser join the list of guys that can play on-ball, along with their designated star-Cade. This trade basically, imo, makes DET better day 1, but also gives a solid return for a quick reset on top of the offensive improvement both incoming players bring immediately.

From ORL side, they actually clear even more cap space (although they face frightening extensions over the next three years. I figure they take a long look at Ivey and hope he works out...but, even if he doesn't, Duren is the kind of physical role player that fits better next to Paolo & Franz (simply banging in the paint, catching lobs, grabbing rebounds, and playing tough D). Duren might be the ideal young, springy piece of Granite that Mosely can turn into a DPOY.

I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

[R-DAWG]

I'd trade Kispert for Ivey.

The Wizards are so far away from competing that they should be willing to trade a useful role player like Kispert for a boom/bust gamble on Ivey.

I'd trade Kuzma for Ivey too, but I'm assuming Detroit wants someone younger.

The concept of this type of trade is very interesting. Kispert might not be enough of a return for Ivey given he's entering the last year of his rookie deal, but bridging the gap with a late 1st could maybe get you there.

I think the biggest challenge that Detroit has is fit. I'm not saying that Ivey/Cade is the next version of Fox/Haliburton, but I think that's an example of sometimes you need to separate similar players to maximize their talents. In Detroit, it's hard to see Cade/Ivey/Thompson working long term.

I know most people don't think highly of this draft, and while a top-3 or 4 pick might not have the upside of other drafts - both Reed Sheppard and Dalton Knecht have skill sets that would compliment Cade in the backcourt very nicely as off ball threats who space the floor - even if we are talking Derrick White/JJ Reddick level players.

Detroit to me seems like a team that has a lot more talent than their record shows, even if they don't have a sure fire franchise player. They are at the point now where they need to go from a collection of talent to a team. And part of that is re-calibrating the roster and in some places downgrading talent/upside for fit. The Kispet/Ivey swap moves in that direction.

A perimeter lineup of Cade-Knecht or Sheppard-Kispert with Duran at the C and Thompson mixed in as a secondary playmaker feels like a path to a much more fluid roster.

[R-DAWG]

Sam Vecenie said he'd trade the #5 or 6 pick in this year's draft for Ivey.

Which is probably close to accurate.

It’s also fair to say Ivey has lost significant value with his level of play, because #5 or #6 in this draft probably wouldn’t be a lottery pick in most years. This draft sucks hard.

There's the natural loss of years of a controlled contract also. Even if Ivey you operate under the idea that Ivey was worth the #5 pick in 2022, he's automatically worth less than the #5 in an equivalent draft now that there are only 2 years left on the rookie deal.

But yeah, this draft is so bad, Sam also said he thought Ivey has more upside than anyone in this draft.

He probably does have more upside than anyone in this draft, but he has 2 less years on his rookie year and call a spade and spade, he's been underwhelming as a pro. Remember, draft picks are like used cars in the sense they lose value as soon as they value as soon as they play their first NBA minute.

But part of the narrative for DET needs to be can all three of Ivey, Thompson and Cade reach their full potential on the same roster together. If not, the circumstance in Detroit might further erode Ivey's (and Thompson's) upside/value.

As I mentioned earlier, this draft might not have star level upside, but has some glue type pieces that could be great fits for Detroit. The type of fits that elevate the talent on the roster. Reed Sheppard as a combo guard who can defend and knock down 3's. Dalton Knecht as a knock down shooter. Ja'Kobe Walter as a 3 and D guard. There are even some 6-8 stretch combo forwards later in the draft that can fit the Pistons roster.

This Detroit team feels like it's a good offseason away from being in the mix for the 9-10 seed next year. As such, I think there is real merit to having a conversation about turning into Ivey into a higher floor/lower ceiling but better fitting piece.

[tcheco]

Ivey for Branham + something? Would love to hear what Spurs and Pistons think would be fair value on this one

[eitanr]

Ivey for Branham + something? Would love to hear what Spurs and Pistons think would be fair value on this one

Keldon Johnson's value has dipped a bit since his rookie campaign, but how far off is Ivey for Sochan?

[wemby]

Ivey for Branham + something? Would love to hear what Spurs and Pistons think would be fair value on this one

Keldon Johnson's value has dipped a bit since his rookie campaign, but how far off is Ivey for Sochan?

Sochan has a lot to grow but he's 20, 6'8", and legitimately can guard 1 through 4 (except maybe the quickest of 1s and the biggest of 4s). He's had a lot of games where his defense has been fantastic, for instance giving SGA and Luka all that they could handle (as good a defense as you can play against those guys). If his shot develops (it's already improved quite a bit) he's a keeper and core piece, if it doesn't maybe he eventually gets moved, but I'll take my chances with him, combo guards are much easier to come by. I woiuldn't move him or Vassell, they're IMO the Spurs most interesting pieces besides Wemby.

[tmorgan]

Ivey for Branham + something? Would love to hear what Spurs and Pistons think would be fair value on this one

Keldon Johnson's value has dipped a bit since his rookie campaign, but how far off is Ivey for Sochan?

Sochan may have more value than Ivey, but that’s still a terrible idea.

How many guys that can’t shoot do the Pistons need?