Jaden Ivey trade value

[tmorgan]

Houston might give #9. And Landale or Tate. Try to fix him like JGreen is looking.

Pg Vleet, Ivey
Sg jgreen, amen
Sf brooks, Whitmore
Pf Jabari, Eason
C. Sengun, Adams

Seems odd. Is Amen already not a PG in Houston’s eyes?

Amen has been so good as a wing that it is hard to see him as a PG now. I think the Rockets will try to find a PG more similar to FVV for the second unit and Amen will eventually be a starting SF/PF.

Sounds exactly like Ausar, then.

[penbeast0]

Amen has been so good as a wing that it is hard to see him as a PG now. I think the Rockets will try to find a PG more similar to FVV for the second unit and Amen will eventually be a starting SF/PF.

Sounds exactly like Ausar, then.

It's like they were twins or something.

[KnicksManiac]

If his value is only a pick in the 16-22 range, I would 100% give that up as a Knicks fan. I still think Ivey has a ton of potential. I blame the situation he’s in more than anything else.

[Kiss of Death]

Seems odd. Is Amen already not a PG in Houston’s eyes?

Amen has been so good as a wing that it is hard to see him as a PG now. I think the Rockets will try to find a PG more similar to FVV for the second unit and Amen will eventually be a starting SF/PF.

Sounds exactly like Ausar, then.

As far as rebounding and defense, yes. But Amen also has playmaking skills.

I’m pretty sure that Amen could start anywhere 1-4 and be effective. His defense and rebounding is probably ahead of his ball-handling at this point.

He started at PG last night:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

[MotownMadness]

Amen has been so good as a wing that it is hard to see him as a PG now. I think the Rockets will try to find a PG more similar to FVV for the second unit and Amen will eventually be a starting SF/PF.

Sounds exactly like Ausar, then.

As far as rebounding and defense, yes. But Amen also has playmaking skills.

I’m pretty sure that Amen could start anywhere 1-4 and be effective. His defense and rebounding is probably ahead of his ball-handling at this point.

He started at PG last night:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

Don't know about 6 apg but Ausars playmaking is still pretty good. He's not someone i would let run the offense but the passing is good.

[nate33]

I'd trade Kispert for Ivey.

The Wizards are so far away from competing that they should be willing to trade a useful role player like Kispert for a boom/bust gamble on Ivey.

I'd trade Kuzma for Ivey too, but I'm assuming Detroit wants someone younger.

[penbeast0]

I'd trade Kispert for Ivey.

The Wizards are so far away from competing that they should be willing to trade a useful role player like Kispert for a boom/bust gamble on Ivey.

I'd trade Kuzma for Ivey too, but I'm assuming Detroit wants someone younger.

I understand your thinking but disagree.

Kispert has real wing size, has proven he can shoot and score at a very high level of efficiency, his only real problem is his poor defense. Ivey is undersized for a 2, hasn't shown that much playmaking, and I have yet to hear anyone praising his defense, either effort or skill set, so that's not that much of an advantage. He's looked like a poor man's Jordan Poole and I just don't think that's a particularly valuable piece.

If we didn't have Poole and were willing to turn over the PG spot to Ivey so he could (hopefully) develop as a PG the way we did to Poole after Tyus's injury, then maybe it's a good deal but with the current roster construction I don't see Ivey being any less misused or more effective than he is in Detroit. Maybe a worse situation because Cunningham at least has the size to defend the big guards.

[A BETTER DJ]

I'd trade Kispert for Ivey.

The Wizards are so far away from competing that they should be willing to trade a useful role player like Kispert for a boom/bust gamble on Ivey.

I'd trade Kuzma for Ivey too, but I'm assuming Detroit wants someone younger.

Make it a 3 team with the Magic and we'll take Kispert. I'd love to have him on our bench. How about for the Denver pick?

[wolves_89]

My biggest concern with Ivey is the lack of improvement from year 1 to year 2. I never expect rookies to be particularly good, instead I think looking at the year-to-year progress is the best indicator of where to set future expectations. Unfortunately for Ivey, his ceiling looks considerably lower than it did when he was drafted. I agree with psman2 that Jaden's value is likely a pick in the late teens to early 20s.

[wemby]

At this point Detroit should probably just keep him and hope he starts to live up to his draft slot. They would get pennies on the dollar. He's been disappointing and his position generally doesn't have alot of value unless you are a Donovan Mitchell type. Not to mention there will be a handful of more proven, smallish scoring guards hitting FA or the trade block this summer.

I agree he’s been disappointing, but he isn’t a Don Mitchell size guard, either. Mitchell may be listed at 6’3”, but he clearly isn’t — he just has long arms. Ivey is listed at 6’4” and clearly is that tall, with broad shoulders and long arms (though not as long as Mitchell’s). Heck, the only good element of Ivey’s defense is his shot-blocking. He has horrible instincts, gambles too much, and gets lost off-ball way too often. It’s incomprehensible to me that the son of a college coach (his mom) could be this raw as a player.

But that, of course, is the appeal. He has the physical tools of a star. Who knows, really. At this point, some organization has to think it’s possible to extract value out of players the Pistons keep failing to develop. What’s hilarious is that the Pistons keep thinking they can do that to other teams’ failures. Hasn’t worked yet, not even once.

Ivey isn't 6'4", in this photo he's between Mathurin and Shaedon Sharpe, who measured at 6'4.5" and 6'4.25" (without shoes) respectively at the combine, and both look a couple inches taller. He's probably 6'2.5" without shoes

His archetype (undersized shooting guard who's a poor shooter, playmaker and defender) isn't the most sought after and he's already half way through his rookie deal without much to show for, so I don't think the Pistons can recoupe similar value to the pick they used on him, probably late lottery at best. If they want that to change, they will have to develop him better, and that seems difficult with Monty. Not an easy situation.

[nate33]

At this point Detroit should probably just keep him and hope he starts to live up to his draft slot. They would get pennies on the dollar. He's been disappointing and his position generally doesn't have alot of value unless you are a Donovan Mitchell type. Not to mention there will be a handful of more proven, smallish scoring guards hitting FA or the trade block this summer.

I agree he’s been disappointing, but he isn’t a Don Mitchell size guard, either. Mitchell may be listed at 6’3”, but he clearly isn’t — he just has long arms. Ivey is listed at 6’4” and clearly is that tall, with broad shoulders and long arms (though not as long as Mitchell’s). Heck, the only good element of Ivey’s defense is his shot-blocking. He has horrible instincts, gambles too much, and gets lost off-ball way too often. It’s incomprehensible to me that the son of a college coach (his mom) could be this raw as a player.

But that, of course, is the appeal. He has the physical tools of a star. Who knows, really. At this point, some organization has to think it’s possible to extract value out of players the Pistons keep failing to develop. What’s hilarious is that the Pistons keep thinking they can do that to other teams’ failures. Hasn’t worked yet, not even once.

Ivey isn't 6'4", in this photo he's between Mathurin and Shaedon Sharpe, who measured at 6'4.5" and 6'4.25" (without shoes) respectively at the combine, and both look a couple inches taller. He's probably 6'2.5" without shoes

His archetype (undersized shooting guard who's a poor shooter, playmaker and defender) isn't the most sought after and he's already half way through his rookie deal without much to show for, so I don't think the Pistons can recoupe similar value to the pick they used on him, probably late lottery at best. If they want that to change, they will have to develop him better, and that seems difficult with Monty. Not an easy situation.

He is no more than 1-inch shorter than those guys. Don't get distracted by the hair. Look at the eye level. Heck his shoulders might be taller than Sharpe's.

Ivey is at least 6'-3 without shoes and has a reported 6'-9.5" wingspan. That's big for a PG, and big enough for a SG.

[Laimbeer]

I'd trade Kispert for Ivey.

The Wizards are so far away from competing that they should be willing to trade a useful role player like Kispert for a boom/bust gamble on Ivey.

I'd trade Kuzma for Ivey too, but I'm assuming Detroit wants someone younger.

This is exactly the kind of trade the Pistons should be looking for.

[theBigLip]

Even though a lot of Pistons fans are disappointed in Ivey, he’s still an asset on a rookie deal w some great athleticism. So I don’t think it’s smart to just dump him for a mid FRP in a weak draft. That player isn’t likely to be a starter anyway - Ivey’s probably got a better chance to be great than that pick.


So for Ivey (and all their young players), if flipping them brings back a solid two way starter, sure, do the trade. But if not, keep the young guys and just use the $70M in cap space to bring in some solid players.

[eitanr]

I agree DET shouldn't move him for picks now (or more realistically "pick"). Maybe in a package for a win-now player.

Having said that, I'd love to give him a look in ORL. Wouldn't stop me from going for a proven upgrade like Dejounte Murray, etc at the same time, but, if the price were just a frp or even a frp + a couple of seconds - I'd jump on it for ORL.

How about...

ORL sends WCJ, Cole Anthony, ORL 24 frp, DEN 25 frp
DEN sends Ivey, Duren

I'd say WCJ > Duren at the moment, and plays a much more versatile game (but Duren does ONLY what ORL needs at C-and does it better than WCJ). I could see WCJ, in a more featured role, increasing his points and rebounds considerably. WCJ is even versatile enough to play next to Wiseman sometimes, for a big lineup. I know Duren is a success in DET, but he's a limited role player and DET has a pretty clear frontcourt slate to build on. Cole is basically what Ivey is, but Ivey has (maybe) a higher ceiling. Two FRPs in the next year are valuable, even if used for trade fodder. DET has too many on-ball guys, so moving Ivey out isn't really painful...Ivey wasn't an ideal pick, but clearly BPA for a team starting a rebuild had to be the way. Now, Thompson & Sasser join the list of guys that can play on-ball, along with their designated star-Cade. This trade basically, imo, makes DET better day 1, but also gives a solid return for a quick reset on top of the offensive improvement both incoming players bring immediately.

From ORL side, they actually clear even more cap space (although they face frightening extensions over the next three years. I figure they take a long look at Ivey and hope he works out...but, even if he doesn't, Duren is the kind of physical role player that fits better next to Paolo & Franz (simply banging in the paint, catching lobs, grabbing rebounds, and playing tough D). Duren might be the ideal young, springy piece of Granite that Mosely can turn into a DPOY.

I actually think a WCJ for Ivey swap has merit

[wemby]

Yesterday the Spurs and Pistons were playing a bunch of benchwarmers and G Leaguers, and a lot of them looked better than Ivey. He's got the tools to be much better, does he have the desire?

[Billl]

Yesterday the Spurs and Pistons were playing a bunch of benchwarmers and G Leaguers, and a lot of them looked better than Ivey. He's got the tools to be much better, does he have the desire?

yep. When he's rolling, he's rolling. He had multiple 30+ point games this year and as a rookie. When he's not? He can play out of control on offense and his lack of defense really gets highlighted. He's been handed a ton of minutes, but I think he might have benefited more from paying behind a vet and brought along more slowly. He's got all the raw talent, speed and athleticism you can ask for, but he needs to learn to play fundamentally sound basketball on both ends if he wants to be more than a 6th man type scorer.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Yesterday the Spurs and Pistons were playing a bunch of benchwarmers and G Leaguers, and a lot of them looked better than Ivey. He's got the tools to be much better, does he have the desire?

yep. When he's rolling, he's rolling. He had multiple 30+ point games this year and as a rookie. When he's not? He can play out of control on offense and his lack of defense really gets highlighted. He's been handed a ton of minutes, but I think he might have benefited more from paying behind a vet and brought along more slowly. He's got all the raw talent, speed and athleticism you can ask for, but he needs to learn to play fundamentally sound basketball on both ends if he wants to be more than a 6th man type scorer.

The thing that's concerning about Ivey is just... He's really stupid after two years in the NBA, two years in college, and having a basketball coach as a mom.

If nothing has sunk in yet, it's not clear it ever will.

[oldncreaky]

I agree DET shouldn't move him for picks now (or more realistically "pick"). Maybe in a package for a win-now player.

Having said that, I'd love to give him a look in ORL. Wouldn't stop me from going for a proven upgrade like Dejounte Murray, etc at the same time, but, if the price were just a frp or even a frp + a couple of seconds - I'd jump on it for ORL.

How about...

ORL sends WCJ, Cole Anthony, ORL 24 frp, DEN 25 frp
DEN sends Ivey, Duren

I'd say WCJ > Duren at the moment, and plays a much more versatile game (but Duren does ONLY what ORL needs at C-and does it better than WCJ). I could see WCJ, in a more featured role, increasing his points and rebounds considerably. WCJ is even versatile enough to play next to Wiseman sometimes, for a big lineup. I know Duren is a success in DET, but he's a limited role player and DET has a pretty clear frontcourt slate to build on. Cole is basically what Ivey is, but Ivey has (maybe) a higher ceiling. Two FRPs in the next year are valuable, even if used for trade fodder. DET has too many on-ball guys, so moving Ivey out isn't really painful...Ivey wasn't an ideal pick, but clearly BPA for a team starting a rebuild had to be the way. Now, Thompson & Sasser join the list of guys that can play on-ball, along with their designated star-Cade. This trade basically, imo, makes DET better day 1, but also gives a solid return for a quick reset on top of the offensive improvement both incoming players bring immediately.

From ORL side, they actually clear even more cap space (although they face frightening extensions over the next three years. I figure they take a long look at Ivey and hope he works out...but, even if he doesn't, Duren is the kind of physical role player that fits better next to Paolo & Franz (simply banging in the paint, catching lobs, grabbing rebounds, and playing tough D). Duren might be the ideal young, springy piece of Granite that Mosely can turn into a DPOY.

I actually think a WCJ for Ivey swap has merit

Agree WCJ for Ivey has some merit

I have no idea why DET would want to trade Duren for Anthony and some meh picks, though. And if Orlando is making WCJ available, they have to be thinking that filling the C spot with some combo of Isaac/Goga/MoWagner is good value for money, in which case I don't think ORL would want to pay the trade price for Duren

[jredsaz]

I’ve been out on Ivey for a while. Personally, he isn’t a guy I want on my roster. However, he has to have some value in the league. A late first still seems a little bit pricey.

[Bentley1225]

Ivey for Magic 2024 1st (#18)?

It would give Orlando a replacement for Fultz with a guy with potentially more upside than Fultz and cheaper.

It would give Pistons ability to add a bigger guard or wing at #18.