It very much sounds like Ishbia/Isiah haven't learned their lesson and will trade their 24 and 31 picks.

[gswhoops]

Yeah. I can see that for sure. I just think it's the specific 3 that’s the issue. If Durant were 2-3 years younger? If Beal were healthier? The general idea? Probably easily. But just the exact specific situation right now? Eek.

Yeah, but you can sort of nit-pick every core.

Miami has an aging Butler and two non-elite impact players in Rozier/Herro who are undersized and on long-term deals.
Houston looks nice and all but Jabari Smith Jr, Alpren Sengun and Amen Thompson are their two highly-regrded prospects and none of them have any realistic chance at being as good as Booker/Current Durant.
Indiana made a trade for Pascal but he is technically a Free Agent and was Haliburton truly hurt or does he have some clear limitations as a core piece in the post-season?

It's easy to say "If Beal were healthier and Durant were younger" but you can nit-pick every team in the NBA, hoping their player(s) were younger, healthier or better.

I do agree though that the Phoenix Suns don't have a Top 5 or Top 10 roster/position, but if your goal is to win a title in the next 2 seasons, I think they are in the Top 10.

Well, yeah, you can nitpick every core. I would assume that if you were valuing the possibility of swapping your team with this one, you’d likely be nitpicking both cores to the extreme?

And even if they’re in the “top 10”, how many teams are willing to trade their entire situation for a probably closer to 10 in the top 10 chance at a championship, but with the likelihood that there’s no rebuilding or bouncing back from it if you don’t win, which you likely won’t?

Because no one asked:

Just on winning a title in the next 2-3 years alone you for sure take Boston, Milwaukee, Denver, OKC, Minnesota, and probably Dallas.

Then, you have teams with a more or less equal chance of winning a title but with significantly higher long-term upside: Cleveland, Philadelphia, and Dallas, if you don't put them in the category above.

There's at least 8 that have an equal or better chance of winning a title in the next 2-3 years and basically all of them have much higher long-term upside.

From there you've got both LA teams, Miami, and maybe (generously) Golden State in the same category of teams with aging star(s) who are health-dependent.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

"Let's be real -- ask the other 29 GMs [in the NBA], 26 of them would trade their whole team for our whole team and our draft picks as is," Ishbia said. "The house is not on fire. We're in a great position. It's not hard to fix. We have enough talent to win a championship."

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/40066112/mat-ishbia-says-phoenix-suns-great-position-declines-address-frank-vogel-status

Yeah, I definitely disagree there. With both assertions, I think. They have enough talent they COULD win a championship, but they need everything to fall just right. As for swapping positions with him? I would bet it’s 10 or less that would want to swap specific situations with Phoenix. I don’t think the Booker, NTC Beal, and almost 36 year old (and eternally one foot out the door) Durant is that perfect of a situation?

This was my thinking. It is natural he's going to think more highly of his team than others, and is going to publicly state things in a more positive light. But right off the bat, 7 teams finished with a better record than Phoenix this year. So he thinks 4 of them would trade their team for a team that performed worse. Then you look at the financial side of it, and Phoenix's ability to improve with what they have and what they're being paid... I bet a lot more than those 7 would decline.

My Warriors are in a similar situation. Probably not a title team; everything would have to align perfectly. Spending a lot of money, hard to see how to improve. And given all that, would I trade our roster for Phoenix's roster? No, I would not. Really, even if you look at the bottom of the league. Would Portland trade their roster to be a capped out middle playoff seed? I'm not sure. Would the Spurs? Definitely not. Detroit? Maybe. Washington? Probably. But I think it would be tougher to find teams that *would* swap rosters with them than teams that would not.

[BlazersBroncos]

If would love to move RWIII for Nurkic and that 31 FRP.

Hell, what about Nurkic + Little + 22 + 31 FRP for RWIII + Thybulle + Reath + 33?

[Texas Chuck]

If would love to move RWIII for Nurkic and that 31 FRP.

Hell, what about Nurkic + Little + 22 + 31 FRP for RWIII + Thybulle + Reath + 33?

Of course you would, but why is Phoenix giving up an unprotected first and a solid starting center for a guy who never plays? Now again this is just my opinion and maybe Phoenix would want to get worse and give up value to do so, but I'm guessing they'd pass quickly.

Again just my opinion. It's possible despite all the injuries Williams is still highly valued and highly prized by Phoenix.

[gswhoops]

If would love to move RWIII for Nurkic and that 31 FRP.

Hell, what about Nurkic + Little + 22 + 31 FRP for RWIII + Thybulle + Reath + 33?

Of course you would, but why is Phoenix giving up an unprotected first and a solid starting center for a guy who never plays? Now again this is just my opinion and maybe Phoenix would want to get worse and give up value to do so, but I'm guessing they'd pass quickly.

Again just my opinion. It's possible despite all the injuries Williams is still highly valued and highly prized by Phoenix.

I think the ship has sailed on RWIII returning a first round pick (unless its a very late/heavily protected one) unless and until he can put together a relatively healthy season. Let alone a first plus a more productive player.

[PistolPeteJR]

The 2031 pick is 7 years away. It does not hold a meaningful amount of value.

This is what everyone was saying about the Lakers' future picks last offseason. I fully expect to hear the inverse now

I think at the time of a deal, the pick itself doesn't hold much value. As time progresses [as it always does], the value increases, as the tangible value of the pick becomes closer to being realized.

This isn't to say the 2031 pick has no value, but realistically how much value does a pick lose for each year away it is from being tangible? What pick in this years draft would you trade for an unprotected pick 7 years out? How about a pick with limited or lottery protections 7 years out?

It's more complex than we realize, I think. Picture a spectrum with "Unknown" on one end and "Known" on the other. There is definitely more appeal in "Known" from a general standpoint, but every situation is different and there are a number of variables that dictate where on the spectrum a situation gets placed (eg. FO competency, current roster, player assets, draft pick assets, city appeal, ownership, etc.).

In the Lakers' case, over the past decade+, they're the Lakers, and that historically has attracted FAs (LeBron + AD, DeRozan who was then nixed for the Russ trade). The FO has been horrid, coaching has been horrid (aside from Vogel who was alright), drafting has gone quite well, ownership is stingy, FA signings outside of stars has been meh.

Make of that as you will if you're trading for their 2031 pick. Rinse and repeat exercise with other teams.

[PistolPeteJR]

So, assuming:

1) Beal, Booker, and KD are not being traded
2) The Suns are willing to spend any/all future assets to win a championship in the next 2-3 years

What's the best squad they could put together?

They probably should gamble on Robert Williams. Nurkic and the 31 pick for Robert Williams is what the Blazers will be looking for. They can then try to get another player making less than $7m with their other picks, but this will be harder.

Rob Williams would be tremendous for them. Problem is he's so injury prone and that team absolutely needs someone both decent and available at the 5.

[165bows]

So, assuming:

1) Beal, Booker, and KD are not being traded
2) The Suns are willing to spend any/all future assets to win a championship in the next 2-3 years

What's the best squad they could put together?

They probably should gamble on Robert Williams. Nurkic and the 31 pick for Robert Williams is what the Blazers will be looking for. They can then try to get another player making less than $7m with their other picks, but this will be harder.

Rob Williams would be tremendous for them. Problem is he's so injury prone and that team absolutely needs someone both decent and available at the 5.

Should trade for Neemias Queta. Great fit there.

[pad300]

...

But, at the end of the day, talent is the name of the game, and Phoenix has 2 Top 20 players in the NBA.

Do they?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_leaders.html

Neither of them makes top 20 in Win Shares, Win Shares/48, BP/M, VORP... Booker is #19 in PER

Booker and Durant might be top 20 names in the NBA, but even there, the competition is fierce...

[NYG]

"Let's be real -- ask the other 29 GMs [in the NBA], 26 of them would trade their whole team for our whole team and our draft picks as is," Ishbia said. "The house is not on fire. We're in a great position. It's not hard to fix. We have enough talent to win a championship."

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/40066112/mat-ishbia-says-phoenix-suns-great-position-declines-address-frank-vogel-status

Yeah, I definitely disagree there. With both assertions, I think. They have enough talent they COULD win a championship, but they need everything to fall just right. As for swapping positions with him? I would bet it’s 10 or less that would want to swap specific situations with Phoenix. I don’t think the Booker, NTC Beal, and almost 36 year old (and eternally one foot out the door) Durant is that perfect of a situation?

Can't trade '31, right?

[Scoot McGroot]

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/40066112/mat-ishbia-says-phoenix-suns-great-position-declines-address-frank-vogel-status

Yeah, I definitely disagree there. With both assertions, I think. They have enough talent they COULD win a championship, but they need everything to fall just right. As for swapping positions with him? I would bet it’s 10 or less that would want to swap specific situations with Phoenix. I don’t think the Booker, NTC Beal, and almost 36 year old (and eternally one foot out the door) Durant is that perfect of a situation?

Can't trade '31, right?

To be honest, I don't 100% know. The whole "draft pick freezing" thing starts up this league year, but the rules might be read by the league as if a team has to finish the 2024/25 season over the 2nd apron to have their 2032 1st frozen. Or it could be read as if once a team triggers the 2nd apron, the 2031 1st could be frozen. I don't 100% know.

[NYG]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/player/_/year/2024/position/c/sort/cap_total

Which centers this off-season fit all of the following criteria...

1. Make less than Jusuf Nurkic
2. Are better than Jusuf Nurkic
3. Could be had for 22nd Overall and/or 2031 Unprotected Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

[NYG]

Yeah, I definitely disagree there. With both assertions, I think. They have enough talent they COULD win a championship, but they need everything to fall just right. As for swapping positions with him? I would bet it’s 10 or less that would want to swap specific situations with Phoenix. I don’t think the Booker, NTC Beal, and almost 36 year old (and eternally one foot out the door) Durant is that perfect of a situation?

Can't trade '31, right?

To be honest, I don't 100% know. The whole "draft pick freezing" thing starts up this league year, but the rules might be read by the league as if a team has to finish the 2024/25 season over the 2nd apron to have their 2032 1st frozen. Or it could be read as if once a team triggers the 2nd apron, the 2031 1st could be frozen. I don't 100% know.

I'm going to lean that it starts 2032 for my mock off-season

[NotACat]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/player/_/year/2024/position/c/sort/cap_total

Which centers this off-season fit all of the following criteria...

1. Make less than Jusuf Nurkic
2. Are better than Jusuf Nurkic
3. Could be had for 22nd Overall and/or 2031 Unprotected Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

WCJ potentially?

[NYG]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/player/_/year/2024/position/c/sort/cap_total

Which centers this off-season fit all of the following criteria...

1. Make less than Jusuf Nurkic
2. Are better than Jusuf Nurkic
3. Could be had for 22nd Overall and/or 2031 Unprotected Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

WCJ potentially?

Would you do Nurkic and 22 or Nurkic and '31 1st or would it take both?

[BeiBeau]

"Let's be real -- ask the other 29 GMs [in the NBA], 26 of them would trade their whole team for our whole team and our draft picks as is," Ishbia said. "The house is not on fire. We're in a great position. It's not hard to fix. We have enough talent to win a championship."

Would a team switch places with the Suns,

1. Celtics, **** no
2. Knicks, **** no
3. Bucks, absolutely not
4. Cavaliers, no
5. Magic, **** no
6. Pacers, hell no
7. Philly, absolutely no
8. Miami, not a chance
9. Atlanta, maybe?
10. Chicago, maybe?
11. Nets, **** no
12. Raptors, probably not
13. Hornets, maybe?
14. Wizards, maybe?
15. Pistons, nah

1. OKC, **** no lmao Matt Ishbia is a moron
2. Denver, **** no
3. Minnesota, **** no
4. Clippers, maybe?
5. Dallas, hell no
6. Lakers, maybe?
7. Pelicans, no
8. Kings, no
9. Warriors, probably not
10. Rockets, hell no
11. Jazz, nah
12. Grizzlies, hell no
13. Spurs, **** no
14. Trailblazers, probably not

All in all, 18 teams where Matt ishbia gets laughed at, 6 maybes, and 0 yes.

Suns are on an expensive, aging franchise, with no assets, and an idiot owner who should be in prison for mortgage fraud. Poverty franchise

[BeiBeau]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/player/_/year/2024/position/c/sort/cap_total

Which centers this off-season fit all of the following criteria...

1. Make less than Jusuf Nurkic
2. Are better than Jusuf Nurkic
3. Could be had for 22nd Overall and/or 2031 Unprotected Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

WCJ potentially?

Would you do Nurkic and 22 or Nurkic and '31 1st or would it take both?

WCJ is an option but I think the suns need some rim protection.

Maybe?

Suns send: Jurkic + picks
Suns get: Mitchell Robinson

Knicks send: Randle, Robinson, and asset
Knicks get: Mikal Bridges

Brooklyn gets: picks + assets and take Nurkic
Brooklyn send: Bridges

Knicks run next season with Hartenstein at the 5

[NYG]

WCJ potentially?

Would you do Nurkic and 22 or Nurkic and '31 1st or would it take both?

WCJ is an option but I think the suns need some rim protection.

Maybe?

Suns send: Jurkic + picks
Suns get: Mitchell Robinson

Knicks send: Randle, Robinson, and asset
Knicks get: Mikal Bridges

Brooklyn gets: picks + assets and take Nurkic
Brooklyn send: Bridges

Knicks run next season with Hartenstein at the 5

How is RW3's fit?

[Norm2953]

If only the Blazers could trade for the Suns training staff, which got a full season from Nurkic?

[BeiBeau]

Would you do Nurkic and 22 or Nurkic and '31 1st or would it take both?

WCJ is an option but I think the suns need some rim protection.

Maybe?

Suns send: Jurkic + picks
Suns get: Mitchell Robinson

Knicks send: Randle, Robinson, and asset
Knicks get: Mikal Bridges

Brooklyn gets: picks + assets and take Nurkic
Brooklyn send: Bridges

Knicks run next season with Hartenstein at the 5

How is RW3's fit?

If you told me he would play 55 games + the playoffs the suns would get a steal.

But he’s gonna play 35 and miss the playoffs so it doesn’t help.