Mavericks/Raptors: Dallas gets a replacement for DJJ

[islandboy53]

Derrick Jones Jr has been an important role player for the Mavericks, especially in the playoffs, but he is virtually guaranteed to leave this summer. This trade with the Raptors gets them a replacement.

Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd
Dallas receives: Bruce Brown

Toronto Trades: Bruce Brown
Toronto receives:Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd

For Dallas, Brown provides more versatility than Jones, with similar or slightly better overall offensive production, and similar defence. He is expiring, giving Dallas flexibility in 2025, although he could be resigned at considerably less if things go well. That salary could also be an important part of a larger trade later in the season if Dallas chooses. Including Powell gives them about $4.5 million under the 1st apron, while opening a roster spot, and providing additional salary flexibility in 2025. Jaden Hardy should be an adequate internal replacement for Hardaway.

Toronto gets a replacement for Gary Trent Jr, who should be able to be flipped for additional assets, perhaps in an expanded trade, but worst case at the TDL. Powell gives them a bit of potential extra big man depth, and becomes expiring salary in 2025. Taking on his 2 years gets them some draft capital in the deal, which is particularly important at this stage of their rebuild.

[Texas Chuck]

I mean Dallas can give him a one year deal for the TMLE then have early Birds. For a guy who is careering he might consider sticking to where he has fit really well.

Value is fine here, but I don't think Brown plays much like Jones. Might still be worth swapping out the money allocated to THJ/Powell for him, but I wouldn't think of him as a direct DJJ replacement.

I think Dallas probably should instead move THJ/assets for a better version of THJ and hope Green/Prosper/Exum can fill some of what Jones does if he leaves. Investing their only salary matching in a non-shooter is something that excites me much.

[MessiahUjiri]

I really like Brown on Dallas too. I just find THJ/Powell to be useless for the Raps. THJ can stay as the 6th man in Dallas.


We can find a different permutation around Josh Green + 2nd + (bad salary)


A smart move might be dumping Kleber’s salary ($22M at 11x2 years) to come under the tax and be able to use the FULL MLE.


J Green + M Kleber + J Hardy + TOR ‘25 2nd
for
B Brown



Kyrie / Exum
Luka / (defensive oriented wing for MLE)
Brown / Hardaway
PJ / (Gafford) / OMax
Gafford / Lively / Powell

[psman2]

Why pay 20m for a 2nd and players you really don't want? Just waive BB and move on, trying to squeeze value out of him seems pointless to me.

[balsamic_ducks]

Looks good to me

[islandboy53]

I mean Dallas can give him a one year deal for the TMLE then have early Birds. For a guy who is careering he might consider sticking to where he has fit really well.

Value is fine here, but I don't think Brown plays much like Jones. Might still be worth swapping out the money allocated to THJ/Powell for him, but I wouldn't think of him as a direct DJJ replacement.

I think Dallas probably should instead move THJ/assets for a better version of THJ and hope Green/Prosper/Exum can fill some of what Jones does if he leaves. Investing their only salary matching in a non-shooter is something that excites me much.

The tax MLE is $5.2 million next year. DJJ should be able to do substantially better than that. He'd look good on the Raptors, for example, at all or most of the NTMLE. Plus, he's been in the league 8 years, and only made about $30 million. He can't afford to turn down the money he's earned with this season.

Brown is not a direct replacement, clearly. In some ways, he's actually an improvement in terms of versatility and play making. His strengths are maximized on teams with high end talent, like Denver and Dallas. I'm not sure what upgrade on THJ you're suggesting, or what assets Dallas has to attach to acquire that upgrade.

[BlazersBroncos]

Despite his nice year I still think DJJ is a Tax MLE guy. He has never been consistently this good.

[Texas Chuck]

The tax MLE is $5.2 million next year. DJJ should be able to do substantially better than that. He'd look good on the Raptors, for example, at all or most of the NTMLE. Plus, he's been in the league 8 years, and only made about $30 million. He can't afford to turn down the money he's earned with this season.

Brown is not a direct replacement, clearly. In some ways, he's actually an improvement in terms of versatility and play making. His strengths are maximized on teams with high end talent, like Denver and Dallas. I'm not sure what upgrade on THJ you're suggesting, or what assets Dallas has to attach to acquire that upgrade.

agree that if a team is willing to put a multiyear deal out there for the big MLE he needs to take it. Not sure teams are going to do that, wondering if this is a Luka effect or if this is who he is now. But absolutely he should take the gtd money if he can get it.

Dallas has Prosper, the TOR 2nd you are using here, and can deal a first and can go back to the swap well again. It's not much in terms of assets, but combined with a team making to look to clear some future salary its possible Dallas can get a more consistent player than THJ. Maybe not. But I'd want to try that before settling on Brown.

If Dallas didn't add Gafford, Brown is a lot more interesting to me because its easy to see lineups with he and Kleber together as the "bigs" in a smallball lineup where Kleber's floor stretching(such as it is lol) means Brown would be defended by centers a lot and he would be good when teams blitz Luka and now Brown is in the key playing 4 on 3. I like that element. But much harder to do that with Gafford or Lively. Now Brown's offensive role is trickier to make work.

It's not a terrible idea. Just Dallas is already light on shooters. I think that has to be a priority with other defensive wings already on the roster.

[islandboy53]

I really like Brown on Dallas too. I just find THJ/Powell to be useless for the Raps. THJ can stay as the 6th man in Dallas.


We can find a different permutation around Josh Green + 2nd + (bad salary)


A smart move might be dumping Kleber’s salary ($22M at 11x2 years) to come under the tax and be able to use the FULL MLE.


J Green + M Kleber + J Hardy + TOR ‘25 2nd
for
B Brown



Kyrie / Exum
Luka / (defensive oriented wing for MLE)
Brown / Hardaway
PJ / (Gafford) / OMax
Gafford / Lively / Powell

There are challenges with this suggestion.

1. It only gets Dallas about $3 million under the tax line, so they're still limited to the taxpayer MLE.
2. Green & Klieber are both part of the Mavs playoff rotation, and wouldn't be replaced here.

[islandboy53]

Why pay 20m for a 2nd and players you really don't want? Just waive BB and move on, trying to squeeze value out of him seems pointless to me.

That was exactly why Brown was included in the Siakam trade. He is more valuable to other teams than Toronto, so he absolutely has to be moved for more useful assets. Powell is just filler, but THJ can - and would - be moved for other assets.

[Texas Chuck]

2. Green & Klieber are both part of the Mavs playoff rotation, and wouldn't be replaced here.

Yeah I think he's fine in assigning negative trade value to either Mavs player. But they have value on the court. Kleber especially. And Green would have more in a non-Jones world His athleticism would be important.

And if he is going to value them negatively then just let Dallas use THJ and Toronto doesn't have to have bad money sitting on the books.

But its almost like he likes Green. And if that's the case then don't value him negatively as in this deal. Have Toronto send Dallas a minor asset to swap Brown for him--because Brown gtd is a negative asset himself. He's not worth that money. Now I don't value Green positive, so I think that's a worse idea for Toronto, but....

[islandboy53]

Despite his nice year I still think DJJ is a Tax MLE guy. He has never been consistently this good.

Brown's nice year got him $22 million, and probably $23 million more. He's been arguably more consistent than DJJ, and DJJ certainly won't get near that number, but he'll do substantially better than $5.3 million.

[MessiahUjiri]

2. Green & Klieber are both part of the Mavs playoff rotation, and wouldn't be replaced here.

Yeah I think he's fine in assigning negative trade value to either Mavs player. But they have value on the court. Kleber especially. And Green would have more in a non-Jones world His athleticism would be important.

And if he is going to value them negatively then just let Dallas use THJ and Toronto doesn't have to have bad money sitting on the books.

But its almost like he likes Green. And if that's the case then don't value him negatively as in this deal. Have Toronto send Dallas a minor asset to swap Brown for him--because Brown gtd is a negative asset himself. He's not worth that money. Now I don't value Green positive, so I think that's a worse idea for Toronto, but....

Brown has more value to Mavs than he does on a rebuilding Raps squad.

Green and Hardy are more valuable to a rebuilding Toronto than a veteran Mavs squad.


Also, Kleber is playing as a spot PF/C right now. By next playoffs, Lively will be soaking up the C minutes, and Kleber will be a clearer negative. Remember, this is for NEXT playoffs not this round.

Also, Raps do have a 10.5M TPE that could absorb more salary if needed.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah, I think DJJ takes the 1+1po of tax MLE and if he repeats this season Dallas gives him a 3yr33 or whatever if needed..

I would pass on the OP. But if a third team wants Brown and Dallas’ 2025 first more than they want THJ/Powell - the value in OP seems fine and it could work.

Brown was really great playing off of Joker. And got overpaid for it. Toronto should not keep him to bleed a second/stone..

[mademan]

2025 is supposed to be a great draft and that pick could very well be in the 30-35 range, so i think the Raps should do it. Also think Brown would be great on the Mavs if he could get back to being a 36% 3pt shooter like he was in Denver (and he should be as Luka generates the same open looks).

Tho i think Mavs only do this if theyre confident Hardy can replace THJ's shooter/scorer role off the bench. Luka and Kyrie cant be the only scorers all season, especially with Kyrie's availability issues.

[Texas Chuck]

Also, Kleber is playing as a spot PF/C right now. By next playoffs, Lively will be soaking up the C minutes, and Kleber will be a clearer negative. Remember, this is for NEXT playoffs not this round.

Gafford/Lively could play 48 minutes at center right now. But Kidd is choosing to not do that. And having a proven small ball center is something of value.

Again, I get Maxi Kleber has negative trade value. He's injury prone and his offense is inconsistent at best. But his head coach really trusts him--and for good reason.

Now maybe Dallas would trade him as a negative as you suggest. But I personally find it a bad idea. Especially since Timmy is less useful on the court and is better matching salary for another team because his money expires and Maxi has 2 years left.

And no idea why Raps fans are putting such a hard sell on Brown. He's a fine player. He's probably slightly better than Green or Timmy in a vacuum. But none of this is a vacuum.

[Godaddycurse]

And no idea why Raps fans are putting such a hard sell on Brown. He's a fine player. He's probably slightly better than Green or Timmy in a vacuum. But none of this is a vacuum.

they really want their 2nd back

[psman2]

Why pay 20m for a 2nd and players you really don't want? Just waive BB and move on, trying to squeeze value out of him seems pointless to me.

That was exactly why Brown was included in the Siakam trade. He is more valuable to other teams than Toronto, so he absolutely has to be moved for more useful assets. Powell is just filler, but THJ can - and would - be moved for other assets.

Nope, he was included because that was the reason Indy gave him the contract he got in the 1st place. He represented a playable TPE that helped Indy get to the salary floor. The notion that he has trade value that is worth more than simply declining him is a weird tangent that some posters have really got wrong here. But sure he has more value to other teams than Toronto, I would not argue against that notion, however that fact doesn't mean he has enough trade value to justify eating 20+m in salary for a 2nd. He is a MLE level guy making twice that.

Toronto best bet for value was last deadline where a team could have offered worst expirings for him and a 2nd(s) and then that new team would decline him in hope of either resigning him cheaper or just letting him walk. Toronto fumbled their chance to get value for him.

[oldncreaky]

Why pay 20m for a 2nd and players you really don't want? Just waive BB and move on, trying to squeeze value out of him seems pointless to me.

That was exactly why Brown was included in the Siakam trade. He is more valuable to other teams than Toronto, so he absolutely has to be moved for more useful assets. Powell is just filler, but THJ can - and would - be moved for other assets.

Nope, he was included because that was the reason Indy gave him the contract he got in the 1st place. He represented a playable TPE that helped Indy get to the salary floor. The notion that he has trade value that is worth more than simply declining him is a weird tangent that some posters have really got wrong here. But sure he has more value to other teams than Toronto, I would not argue against that notion, however that fact doesn't mean he has enough trade value to justify eating 20+m in salary for a 2nd. He is a MLE level guy making twice that.

Toronto best bet for value was last deadline where a team could have offered worst expirings for him and a 2nd(s) and then that new team would decline him in hope of either resigning him cheaper or just letting him walk. Toronto fumbled their chance to get value for him.

Agree, but as always we don't know what (if anything) was actually offered for Brown at the TDL. If their only solid suitor was NYK and the Knicks pivoted to Bogie, there's not much to discuss.

I think the choice of whether or not to release Brown will be based on whether or not Toronto wants to act as an over-the-cap or under-the-cap team, and that in turn looks a lot different if they have a significant cap hold for a high FRP (46% chance they keep the 2024 TOR FRP) -- so it should become clearer after the May 12 draft lottery.

[Astaluego]

I think we'll keep DJJ in 1 spot, so Brown wouldn't be that necessary, even if not, I'd say Green can fill the role that BB would play (I hope he improves a little too).. I really think a better THJ would be a greater need, let's make this a 3-team business??

Hawks
In:BBrown
Out: Bogdan

Raptors
In:Hardy+THJ
Out:Brown

Mavs
In: Bogdan
Out:Hardy+THJ+SRP

(I'm not sure which Hawks/Raptors should get the SRP.)
Maybe the Raptors are cut in this scenario?