Mavericks/Raptors: Dallas gets a replacement for DJJ

[MessiahUjiri]

I think we'll keep DJJ in 1 spot, so Brown wouldn't be that necessary, even if not, I'd say Green can fill the role that BB would play (I hope he improves a little too).. I really think a better THJ would be a greater need, let's make this a 3-team business??

Hawks
In:BBrown
Out: Bogdan

Raptors
In:Hardy+THJ
Out:Brown

Mavs
In: Bogdan
Out:Hardy+THJ+SRP

(I'm not sure which Hawks/Raptors should get the SRP.)
Maybe the Raptors are cut in this scenario?

I actually don’t think the Mavs need another offensive player. They need 3&D. I guess you could say the same thing about the Hawks too.

[jbk1234]

Why not just opt out of Brown's 2nd year, take an expiring THJ with Hardy or Green attached, and then Dallas can offer DJJ the full MLE.

[jayjaysee]

I think we'll keep DJJ in 1 spot, so Brown wouldn't be that necessary, even if not, I'd say Green can fill the role that BB would play (I hope he improves a little too).. I really think a better THJ would be a greater need, let's make this a 3-team business??

Hawks
In:BBrown
Out: Bogdan

Raptors
In:Hardy+THJ
Out:Brown

Mavs
In: Bogdan
Out:Hardy+THJ+SRP

(I'm not sure which Hawks/Raptors should get the SRP.)
Maybe the Raptors are cut in this scenario?

I actually don’t think the Mavs need another offensive player. They need 3&D. I guess you could say the same thing about the Hawks too.

I think Dallas meeds both. They need the good nights of THJ and DJJ. But they can’t guarantee the good nights of those two unfortunately. I think upgrading THJ is more important. If you somehow land a two way wing, that’s the dream. But it feels like a dream, so you target offense first and hope to keep DJJ.. have PJ/Maxi and pretty elite center play hopefully..

[islandboy53]

Why not just opt out of Brown's 2nd year, take an expiring THJ with Hardy or Green attached, and then Dallas can offer DJJ the full MLE.

So, Dallas should trade THJ, plus Hardy or Green, to Toronto for nothing so they can use the full MLE on DJJ? Green is already an important rotation piece, and Hardy is someone you're looking at, in part, to replace THJ. On the other side, Toronto effectively trades Brown for THJ and Hardy/Green, which seems like a good return. However, they need to go under the cap to do so, meaning they lose flexibility by exchanging the NTMLE for the room exception and waiving the Siakam TPE.

[jayjaysee]

A random bad idea is seeing how much Detroit wants in a THJ for Grimes swap? They would still be able to max anyone wanting to sign with them so less concern and THJ is probably finally worth his contract next year.

That would open up the MLE for Dallas the year they “need” the MLE while Grimes comes with matching rights the follow year once the team is well in the tax hopefully.. Just lock up role players all around Luka/Kyrie and hope that’s enough to keep them both and win a title.

Not sure if that is seen as Proper+Toronto second or the 2025 first..or more/less than either of those ideas.

I’d be aiming higher, but just a bad idea. Still think DJJ takes 2yr10.5 or whatever the taxMLE is, opts out if he has a repeat year and Dallas gives him 3yr30 and both sides are happy.

[islandboy53]

I think we'll keep DJJ in 1 spot, so Brown wouldn't be that necessary, even if not, I'd say Green can fill the role that BB would play (I hope he improves a little too).. I really think a better THJ would be a greater need, let's make this a 3-team business??

Hawks
In:BBrown
Out: Bogdan

Raptors
In:Hardy+THJ
Out:Brown

Mavs
In: Bogdan
Out:Hardy+THJ+SRP

(I'm not sure which Hawks/Raptors should get the SRP.)
Maybe the Raptors are cut in this scenario?

I actually don’t think the Mavs need another offensive player. They need 3&D. I guess you could say the same thing about the Hawks too.

I think Dallas meeds both. They need the good nights of THJ and DJJ. But they can’t guarantee the good nights of those two unfortunately. I think upgrading THJ is more important. If you somehow land a two way wing, that’s the dream. But it feels like a dream, so you target offense first and hope to keep DJJ.. have PJ/Maxi and pretty elite center play hopefully..

THJ has played a total of 22 minutes and scored 6 points in these playoffs. DJJ has been a key rotation piece, playing 28 mpg and scoring almost 10 points per game, but he's there because of the defence he brings. If DJJ leaves this summer, the Mavs need to replace his defence, ideally without losing his offence. Bogdan or other potential upgrades on THJ's offence will be spending most of their time on the bench in the playoffs, just like Tim. There may well be better Jones replacements available this summer, but Brown could do the job.

[jayjaysee]

I actually don’t think the Mavs need another offensive player. They need 3&D. I guess you could say the same thing about the Hawks too.

I think Dallas meeds both. They need the good nights of THJ and DJJ. But they can’t guarantee the good nights of those two unfortunately. I think upgrading THJ is more important. If you somehow land a two way wing, that’s the dream. But it feels like a dream, so you target offense first and hope to keep DJJ.. have PJ/Maxi and pretty elite center play hopefully..

THJ has played a total of 22 minutes and scored 6 points in these playoffs. DJJ has been a key rotation piece, playing 28 mpg and scoring almost 10 points per game, but he's there because of the defence he brings. If DJJ leaves this summer, the Mavs need to replace his defence, ideally without losing his offence. Bogdan or other potential upgrades on THJ's offence will be spending most of their time on the bench in the playoffs, just like Tim. There may well be better Jones replacements available this summer, but Brown could do the job.

Brown’s contract means he has to replace both DJJ and THJ. And he can barely replace DJJ if we assume DJJ is worth a full MLE like others believe..

Game one DJJ played 18 minutes and Hardaway played 16. Hardaway is hurt and not playing, so not sure why we’d talk about 22 minutes... Hardaway played 2120 minutes this season, DJJ played 1783. DJJ played 75% of his minutes with Luka, THJ played 60% of his with Luka.. They cover different roles completely obviously and I dislike THJ as much as almost any Dallas fan..

Dallas shouldn’t complain about injuries, since LAC is missing someone a bit more impactful than THJ but still.

Hardaway is inconsistent and frustrating, all the things we say... iso heavy. And forgets to pass or doesn’t know how to... And etc. But the role he plays is very important..

[Texas Chuck]

yeah this is the problem going into a thread with a singular idea and a closed mind to those trying to tell you more about the team, it leads you to miss really key details like Timmy not playing because he is injured.

We don't disagree that if Jones leaves Dallas needs to replace him. We just disagree swapping THJ/assets for Brown is the best approach. And that should really be okay.

[Colbinii]

I actually don’t think the Mavs need another offensive player. They need 3&D. I guess you could say the same thing about the Hawks too.

I think Dallas meeds both. They need the good nights of THJ and DJJ. But they can’t guarantee the good nights of those two unfortunately. I think upgrading THJ is more important. If you somehow land a two way wing, that’s the dream. But it feels like a dream, so you target offense first and hope to keep DJJ.. have PJ/Maxi and pretty elite center play hopefully..

THJ has played a total of 22 minutes and scored 6 points in these playoffs. DJJ has been a key rotation piece, playing 28 mpg and scoring almost 10 points per game, but he's there because of the defence he brings. If DJJ leaves this summer, the Mavs need to replace his defence, ideally without losing his offence. Bogdan or other potential upgrades on THJ's offence will be spending most of their time on the bench in the playoffs, just like Tim. There may well be better Jones replacements available this summer, but Brown could do the job.

THJ is hurt bro.

Tell me you haven't watched a single Mavs playoff game without telling me you haven't watched a single Mavs playoff game.

[docholliday99]

Derrick Jones Jr has been an important role player for the Mavericks, especially in the playoffs, but he is virtually guaranteed to leave this summer. This trade with the Raptors gets them a replacement.

Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd
Dallas receives: Bruce Brown

Toronto Trades: Bruce Brown
Toronto receives:Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd

For Dallas, Brown provides more versatility than Jones, with similar or slightly better overall offensive production, and similar defence. He is expiring, giving Dallas flexibility in 2025, although he could be resigned at considerably less if things go well. That salary could also be an important part of a larger trade later in the season if Dallas chooses. Including Powell gives them about $4.5 million under the 1st apron, while opening a roster spot, and providing additional salary flexibility in 2025. Jaden Hardy should be an adequate internal replacement for Hardaway.

Toronto gets a replacement for Gary Trent Jr, who should be able to be flipped for additional assets, perhaps in an expanded trade, but worst case at the TDL. Powell gives them a bit of potential extra big man depth, and becomes expiring salary in 2025. Taking on his 2 years gets them some draft capital in the deal, which is particularly important at this stage of their rebuild.

There's some interesting ideas in here, though putting all your ideas together will put the team around the the 1st apron and all the roster spots full (as long as GTJ is straight trade with someone else). Personally, I'm not that high on trading a 27yo jack of all trade type player for 2 x 32 y.o's at the end of their NBA time to a rebuilding team - basically just trading Brown for a SRP. In this scenario, I'd probably prefer to keep the extra roster spot and move Brown for a younger player - that's just me personally though.

[islandboy53]

I think Dallas meeds both. They need the good nights of THJ and DJJ. But they can’t guarantee the good nights of those two unfortunately. I think upgrading THJ is more important. If you somehow land a two way wing, that’s the dream. But it feels like a dream, so you target offense first and hope to keep DJJ.. have PJ/Maxi and pretty elite center play hopefully..

THJ has played a total of 22 minutes and scored 6 points in these playoffs. DJJ has been a key rotation piece, playing 28 mpg and scoring almost 10 points per game, but he's there because of the defence he brings. If DJJ leaves this summer, the Mavs need to replace his defence, ideally without losing his offence. Bogdan or other potential upgrades on THJ's offence will be spending most of their time on the bench in the playoffs, just like Tim. There may well be better Jones replacements available this summer, but Brown could do the job.

THJ is hurt bro.

Tell me you haven't watched a single Mavs playoff game without telling me you haven't watched a single Mavs playoff game.

I actually have watched the last two Mavs games, but was not aware of Hardaway's injury. I was impressed by Jones' defence. AS well, Dallas doesn't seem to be missing Hardaway's scoring.

[Texas Chuck]

Dallas doesn't seem to be missing Hardaway's scoring.

I mean I think there is an argument to be made to just play Jones more minutes and steal some with Green and then play PJ at the 3 next to Maxi and center like they are doing.

But its impossible to look at Dallas' scoring in this series and suggest they don't miss his scoring/shooting. They can't buy a 3. And a team that averaged 118 is 12 points under that.

But beyond that if you see a guy who was in the rotation all year without a single DNP-CD is suddenly nowhere to be found, I'd probably at least check to see if he was injured. Something that has been mentioned multiple times on the national broadcasts along with him sitting in civies on the screen a lot.

Right now Dallas has 4 guys the coach really believes in: Luka/Kyrie/Washinton/Jones. Then he has the 3 centers with Maxi also playing some at the 4. Then he's trying to survive some Green and some Exum minutes. Having THJ available would give him another option and one who might let Luka not have to play basically every minute.

But none of that is really the issue here. The issue is if using their last matching salary and using some of their limited assets on Brown is their best option. Most of us don't agree with you that it is. Doesn't make you wrong of course. But....

[jayjaysee]

I sold myself on THJ, Prosper, Toronto 2nd for Grimes.

I think Detroit would take THJ for free mostly, so an early second and a meh prospect for Grimes feels right?

[islandboy53]

Derrick Jones Jr has been an important role player for the Mavericks, especially in the playoffs, but he is virtually guaranteed to leave this summer. This trade with the Raptors gets them a replacement.

Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd
Dallas receives: Bruce Brown

Toronto Trades: Bruce Brown
Toronto receives:Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd

For Dallas, Brown provides more versatility than Jones, with similar or slightly better overall offensive production, and similar defence. He is expiring, giving Dallas flexibility in 2025, although he could be resigned at considerably less if things go well. That salary could also be an important part of a larger trade later in the season if Dallas chooses. Including Powell gives them about $4.5 million under the 1st apron, while opening a roster spot, and providing additional salary flexibility in 2025. Jaden Hardy should be an adequate internal replacement for Hardaway.

Toronto gets a replacement for Gary Trent Jr, who should be able to be flipped for additional assets, perhaps in an expanded trade, but worst case at the TDL. Powell gives them a bit of potential extra big man depth, and becomes expiring salary in 2025. Taking on his 2 years gets them some draft capital in the deal, which is particularly important at this stage of their rebuild.

There's some interesting ideas in here, though putting all your ideas together will put the team around the the 1st apron and all the roster spots full (as long as GTJ is straight trade with someone else). Personally, I'm not that high on trading a 27yo jack of all trade type player for 2 x 32 y.o's at the end of their NBA time to a rebuilding team - basically just trading Brown for a SRP. In this scenario, I'd probably prefer to keep the extra roster spot and move Brown for a younger player - that's just me personally though.

Looks like my wording was ambiguous. First, I'm assuming Trent is allowed to walk in this scenario, meaning there's no impact on roster spots, and there should be at least $25 million in room below the tax. THJ plus Powell combined is about $3 million less than Brown, so the move creates extra room and a small TPE. I would expect THJ to be flipped for assets prior to the season, perhaps as part of an expanded deal, for additional assets. It may be that he won't bring back more than a couple of 2nds and matching salary, which may not be enough on top of the other 2nd. As I reflect further, it may be that the only way this should happen is as a 3 way where you already know your total return is enough to be worthwhile.

[docholliday99]

Derrick Jones Jr has been an important role player for the Mavericks, especially in the playoffs, but he is virtually guaranteed to leave this summer. This trade with the Raptors gets them a replacement.

Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd
Dallas receives: Bruce Brown

Toronto Trades: Bruce Brown
Toronto receives:Tim Hardaway Jr, Dwight Powell, 2025 Toronto 2nd

For Dallas, Brown provides more versatility than Jones, with similar or slightly better overall offensive production, and similar defence. He is expiring, giving Dallas flexibility in 2025, although he could be resigned at considerably less if things go well. That salary could also be an important part of a larger trade later in the season if Dallas chooses. Including Powell gives them about $4.5 million under the 1st apron, while opening a roster spot, and providing additional salary flexibility in 2025. Jaden Hardy should be an adequate internal replacement for Hardaway.

Toronto gets a replacement for Gary Trent Jr, who should be able to be flipped for additional assets, perhaps in an expanded trade, but worst case at the TDL. Powell gives them a bit of potential extra big man depth, and becomes expiring salary in 2025. Taking on his 2 years gets them some draft capital in the deal, which is particularly important at this stage of their rebuild.

There's some interesting ideas in here, though putting all your ideas together will put the team around the the 1st apron and all the roster spots full (as long as GTJ is straight trade with someone else). Personally, I'm not that high on trading a 27yo jack of all trade type player for 2 x 32 y.o's at the end of their NBA time to a rebuilding team - basically just trading Brown for a SRP. In this scenario, I'd probably prefer to keep the extra roster spot and move Brown for a younger player - that's just me personally though.

Looks like my wording was ambiguous. First, I'm assuming Trent is allowed to walk in this scenario, meaning there's no impact on roster spots, and there should be at least $25 million in room below the tax. THJ plus Powell combined is about $3 million less than Brown, so the move creates extra room and a small TPE. I would expect THJ to be flipped for assets prior to the season, perhaps as part of an expanded deal, for additional assets. It may be that he won't bring back more than a couple of 2nds and matching salary, which may not be enough on top of the other 2nd. As I reflect further, it may be that the only way this should happen is as a 3 way where you already know your total return is enough to be worthwhile.

Oh I see, 3 way trades are tough but it makes more sense. A lot of extra work and I'm not sure how valued THJ is - or I think Dallas would have moved him already. I'm never a 100% sure as this league can surprise me on occasion.

As for space, quick check has the team with10 players at 117m in salary (including Brown or equal amount of salary from a trade), add the 2 picks and that's another 11m, then 25 to IQ, which would equal about 153m; that leaves roughly 18m under the tax threshold.

TBH, I'm not sure MU is looking to move or let GTJ walk if he can help it (and he's a better asset imho than Brown) and we have needs all over so no real rush. I think the player moved is Poeltl, he really doesn't fit the future and could net a nice asset. I think moving Poeltl will also help draft positioning, especially with the 2025 draft.

[BeiBeau]

I sold myself on THJ, Prosper, Toronto 2nd for Grimes.

I think Detroit would take THJ for free mostly, so an early second and a meh prospect for Grimes feels right?

How much money does that open up for Dallas this offseason. Is the DJJ money plus the MLE?

[BeiBeau]

A successful offseason for Nico Harrison this year will include,

1. Resigning or replacing DJJ
2. Upgrading the THJ spot

Dallas’s defense has quickly become very good and very dependable since the trades and we’re now watching a series with an injured Luka where Dallas can’t buy a 3 to save their lives and are having to rely on defense to win. Now defense is a better way to win than most. But Dallas needs have changed. A high level starting 3 would be nice. But Dallas needs in 1 player,

1. Consistent 3pt shooting off the bench
2. Another very high level free throw shooter because the end of game, “we have to get the ball to Kyrie or we’re gonna shoot 60% at the line” is awful.
3. Someone who is not a complete liability on defense.

Dallas should not be in the business of giving the 2025 Tor 2nd away for cheap. Dallas is asset poor, and despite that they’re probably going to have 2 picks between 20-35 next year.

[BeiBeau]

I really like Brown on Dallas too. I just find THJ/Powell to be useless for the Raps. THJ can stay as the 6th man in Dallas.


We can find a different permutation around Josh Green + 2nd + (bad salary)


A smart move might be dumping Kleber’s salary ($22M at 11x2 years) to come under the tax and be able to use the FULL MLE.


J Green + M Kleber + J Hardy + TOR ‘25 2nd
for
B Brown



Kyrie / Exum
Luka / (defensive oriented wing for MLE)
Brown / Hardaway
PJ / (Gafford) / OMax
Gafford / Lively / Powell

Completely horrendous for Dallas, yeah it’s a money improvement but it’s a bad asset move for Dallas and makes Dallas worse on the court. Dallas is not trying to make lateral-at-best basketball move that loses assets, they’re actively trying to get over the hump with their moves this offseason.

Yes Maxi Kleber has negative value to a rebuilding team but a dozen playoff teams would love to have him.

[jayjaysee]

I sold myself on THJ, Prosper, Toronto 2nd for Grimes.

I think Detroit would take THJ for free mostly, so an early second and a meh prospect for Grimes feels right?

How much money does that open up for Dallas this offseason. Is the DJJ money plus the MLE?

Just gets them far enough under the tax to use the nontaxMLE on DJJ..

If DJJ is signing for the taxMLE like I think/hope?(with a player option on second year), you could use some of the 12-13 million dollar TPE created if Dallas is willing to spend all the way to the second apron I guess.

[BeiBeau]

I sold myself on THJ, Prosper, Toronto 2nd for Grimes.

I think Detroit would take THJ for free mostly, so an early second and a meh prospect for Grimes feels right?

How much money does that open up for Dallas this offseason. Is the DJJ money plus the MLE?

Just gets them far enough under the tax to use the nontaxMLE on DJJ..

If DJJ is signing for the taxMLE like I think/hope?(with a player option on second year), you could use some of the 12-13 million dollar TPE created if Dallas is willing to spend all the way to the second apron I guess.

I think I’d do OP over that. What is LAC doing this offseason? Is there a THJ ++ for Powell trade out there?

I wonder what DJJ is thinking, he’s had a career year next to Luka and with a lot of teams looking to save money there might now be that much money out there.