Denver/Indiana or Denver/Charlote draft day trade

[BelgradeNugget]

So the Pacers downgrade two players for a super late pick in a terrible draft?

Well, what is the right price for your 3rd best guard (or 4th depending what you expect from Ben Sheppard) and 5th best big? 5 unprotected 1st and 3 swaps? If late 1st is not enough, ok I undrestand but you won't get better offer for them, and there is good chance neither will be on your roster after next season. BTW Reggie Jackson is upgrade over Isaiah Jackson.

With 1st rd pick, Reggie's expiring + something more you add, you could try to find 3nD guard your team needs, right?

Please don't be reductive. Pacers fans can not like you deal without your claiming they are demanding unreasonable return.

Some disconnects which might help you:

They don't see Jackson as an upgrade on McConnell
They don't want to take on the Nnaji contract and a late 1st for taking that on isn't great value even if they were willing to take on the dead weight, but they are a good team so unlikely to want to do that.

I reacted to this:

"So the Pacers downgrade two players for a super late pick in a terrible draft?"

If he tough they don't won't Zake/Reggie + 1st I undrestand. He could say so. If he tough Nuggets should add something more, Ok he could say so.

EDIT:
Here are answers I gave And1

Not sure I would trade Micic from Charlotte given Ball’s injury history

Aggregating Zeke and Reggie together would hard cap Denver at the 2nd apron. And McConnell makes more than any player Denver sends out, so they’d have to match at 110%, which would hard cap them at the first apron.
Regardless, I doubt Indy would have interest in eating Nnaji’s contract right now, not giving up McConnell? For much the same reasons Nnaji can’t get on the floor in the playoffs for Denver, he wouldn’t get on the floor for Indy, who would prefer to re sign Obi Toppin for only a little more in salary than Naji would get?

No I don't think Indiana would be interested in that.

honestly prefer to just keep Micic than give him away in a swap of a bunch of fringe stuff, and I don't particularly want to be on the hook for 4 years of Zeke Nnaji

That's fair, but I don't think what the Nuggets give up in this trade really does much for Indiana.

But one answer was not like others do you agree?

[Colbinii]

Well, what is the right price for your 3rd best guard (or 4th depending what you expect from Ben Sheppard) and 5th best big? 5 unprotected 1st and 3 swaps? If late 1st is not enough, ok I undrestand but you won't get better offer for them, and there is good chance neither will be on your roster after next season. BTW Reggie Jackson is upgrade over Isaiah Jackson.

With 1st rd pick, Reggie's expiring + something more you add, you could try to find 3nD guard your team needs, right?

Please don't be reductive. Pacers fans can not like you deal without your claiming they are demanding unreasonable return.

Some disconnects which might help you:

They don't see Jackson as an upgrade on McConnell
They don't want to take on the Nnaji contract and a late 1st for taking that on isn't great value even if they were willing to take on the dead weight, but they are a good team so unlikely to want to do that.

I reacted to this:

"So the Pacers downgrade two players for a super late pick in a terrible draft?"

If he tough they don't won't Zake/Reggie + 1st I undrestand. He could say so. If he tough Nuggets should add something more, Ok he could say so.

My honest question is do McConnell and Jackson has more value than "a super late pick in a terrible draft" + bench players, and if so what is fair value?

I think the problem is McConnell and Jackson don't have more value than this but also Indiana has no reason to make a move like selling McConnell/Jackson for their actual value, since they value the players.

[Texas Chuck]

I reacted to this:

"So the Pacers downgrade two players for a super late pick in a terrible draft?"

Yeah and nowhere in that did the poster demand an unprotected 1st and 3 swaps. Yet, that was how you chose to respond.

If he views those players as downgrades and the Pacers are a 2nd round team(at least), wouldn't it be logical to not want to downgrade for a late 1st?

[BelgradeNugget]

I reacted to this:

"So the Pacers downgrade two players for a super late pick in a terrible draft?"

Yeah and nowhere in that did the poster demand an unprotected 1st and 3 swaps. Yet, that was how you chose to respond.

If he views those players as downgrades and the Pacers are a 2nd round team(at least), wouldn't it be logical to not want to downgrade for a late 1st?

Is it OK to start honest conversation with the kind of answer he gave? You don't answer with question, right. Answers all other posters gave were honest, I and1 them.

If super late pick in terible draft is not enough to downgrade two players what is right price to downgrade two players?

[Scoot McGroot]

Well, what is the right price for your 3rd best guard (or 4th depending what you expect from Ben Sheppard) and 5th best big? 5 unprotected 1st and 3 swaps? If late 1st is not enough, ok I undrestand but you won't get better offer for them, and there is good chance neither will be on your roster after next season. BTW Reggie Jackson is upgrade over Isaiah Jackson.

With 1st rd pick, Reggie's expiring + something more you add, you could try to find 3nD guard your team needs, right?

I think you missed the point of this trade makes Indiana worse in the long run and neither R. Jackson nor Nanji or the 24 1st rd pick makes up the difference.

Well Ok, you don't want Zake/Reggie + 1st. Sometimes nothing is better than bad trade, as you see it OK. Forget trade offer.
But this is honest question - do you see McConell as part of your future, do you resign him after 2024-25. What contract?
The same question for Isaiah Jackson

Really hard to say. I think that Indy has now seen that McConnell can play and Nembhard can still get a ton of minutes. Plus, they seem to value having a super uptempo PG on the court for 48 minutes a night betweeen Haliburton and McConnell. Everything Carlisle says about him sounds like he wants him there forever, but we all know how business works, etc. McConnell is signed for next year, and I would bet they look to keep him after?

As for Jackson, it’s harder to say? He’s a Carlisle specific pick, so that’s in his favor. He’s athletic and projects well as an athletic big defender. Good rim protection/recovery. His offensive game is still largely rim running/lobs, but that seems useful with Haliburton, as Obi Toppin has shown. I think they’d like to still see Jackson another year, as he’s still pretty young (still only 22 until January). But, he has now been passed up by Isaiah Jackson and Obi Toppin in the rotation. Jarace Walker will play ahead of him going forward. Siakam will hopefully be re-signed. So, there’s still a big question to Jackson’s future with the team, but I don’t know that they want to dump him yet?

[BelgradeNugget]

I think you missed the point of this trade makes Indiana worse in the long run and neither R. Jackson nor Nanji or the 24 1st rd pick makes up the difference.

Well Ok, you don't want Zake/Reggie + 1st. Sometimes nothing is better than bad trade, as you see it OK. Forget trade offer.
But this is honest question - do you see McConell as part of your future, do you resign him after 2024-25. What contract?
The same question for Isaiah Jackson

Really hard to say. I think that Indy has now seen that McConnell can play and Nembhard can still get a ton of minutes. Plus, they seem to value having a super uptempo PG on the court for 48 minutes a night betweeen Haliburton and McConnell. Everything Carlisle says about him sounds like he wants him there forever, but we all know how business works, etc. McConnell is signed for next year, and I would bet they look to keep him after?

As for Jackson, it’s harder to say? He’s a Carlisle specific pick, so that’s in his favor. He’s athletic and projects well as an athletic big defender. Good rim protection/recovery. His offensive game is still largely rim running/lobs, but that seems useful with Haliburton, as Obi Toppin has shown. I think they’d like to still see Jackson another year, as he’s still pretty young (still only 22 until January). But, he has now been passed up by Isaiah Jackson and Obi Toppin in the rotation. Jarace Walker will play ahead of him going forward. Siakam will hopefully be re-signed. So, there’s still a big question to Jackson’s future with the team, but I don’t know that they want to dump him yet?

One thing about McConnell, who I like a lot, and his minutes is this. Regular season is one thing but in the playoffs here are minutes per game of Pacers guards/small forwards

Tyrese Haliburton 36.3
Andrew Nembhard 34.7
Aaron Nesmith 35.0
T.J. McConnell 18.0
Ben Sheppard 17.8

If Mathurin was healthy who loses minutes and how much? I guess it will be between first round pick from last year Ben Sheppard, who will get bigger chance next season, and McConnell.

As for Jackson, rn he is 5th big behind Pascal Siakam, Myles Turner, Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, and as you said Jarace Walker will play ahead of him going forward. So no minutes for him.

But what I want to know is what do you see as Pacers needs going forward, what positions do you think you need to fill and with what kind of players?

[Scoot McGroot]

Well Ok, you don't want Zake/Reggie + 1st. Sometimes nothing is better than bad trade, as you see it OK. Forget trade offer.
But this is honest question - do you see McConell as part of your future, do you resign him after 2024-25. What contract?
The same question for Isaiah Jackson

Really hard to say. I think that Indy has now seen that McConnell can play and Nembhard can still get a ton of minutes. Plus, they seem to value having a super uptempo PG on the court for 48 minutes a night betweeen Haliburton and McConnell. Everything Carlisle says about him sounds like he wants him there forever, but we all know how business works, etc. McConnell is signed for next year, and I would bet they look to keep him after?

As for Jackson, it’s harder to say? He’s a Carlisle specific pick, so that’s in his favor. He’s athletic and projects well as an athletic big defender. Good rim protection/recovery. His offensive game is still largely rim running/lobs, but that seems useful with Haliburton, as Obi Toppin has shown. I think they’d like to still see Jackson another year, as he’s still pretty young (still only 22 until January). But, he has now been passed up by Isaiah Jackson and Obi Toppin in the rotation. Jarace Walker will play ahead of him going forward. Siakam will hopefully be re-signed. So, there’s still a big question to Jackson’s future with the team, but I don’t know that they want to dump him yet?

One thing about McConnell, who I like a lot, and his minutes is this. Regular season is one thing but in the playoffs here are minutes per game of Pacers guards/small forwards

Tyrese Haliburton 36.3
Andrew Nembhard 34.7
Aaron Nesmith 35.0
T.J. McConnell 18.0
Ben Sheppard 17.8

If Mathurin was healthy who loses minutes and how much? I guess it will be between first round pick from last year Ben Sheppard, who will get bigger chance next season, and McConnell.

Don’t know. And I don’t think the team really cares? A huge part of the success against Milwaukee was their depth and ability to keep running, so i think this is a problem the Pacers are happy to have?

As for Jackson, rn he is 5th big behind Pascal Siakam, Myles Turner, Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, and as you said Jarace Walker will play ahead of him going forward. So no minutes for him.

I think it’s important to recognize that when the Pacers went to the bench in the playoffs, they went to Jackson, not Jalen. And with both Obi and Jalen likely to hit free agency, and Walker still learning to play in the NBA, there’s still a big role for Jackson. Though, I would say Jackson is likely more gettable than TJ?

But what I want to know is what do you see as Pacers needs going forward, what positions do you think you need to fill and with what kind of players?

Interesting question. I think they’re likely going to take this advanced playoffs appearance as a sign to run it back? There could be a consolidation trade, but there’s still a VERY young roster here and a lot of room for continued growth and development without a real immediate deadline? I don’t see them taking a “step back” for a late 1st though, but moreso with McConnell than Jackson. I think if Jackson could move Indy up from 36 to the 20’s, they might consider that much as they used Aaron Holiday to move up from 31 to 22 to draft Jackson originally?


As for needs, it would just be continued focus on defense, I guess? My dream would be a Mathurin/Nembhard/Jalen s&T and whatever 1sts necessary for Mikal Bridges. Step Nesmith down to the starter at 2, use McConnell as the backup 1, Sheppard backup 2/3, Walker backup 3/4, Toppin backup 4/5, etc.

[Ell Curry]

It looks like Nnaji + 1st rd pick in 2024 can't bring back solid backup PG, but I'm interested in this just from legality stand point

It's a tough one because I think it would in terms of value, like a Tyus Jones deal at the deadline for #28 makes enough sense, but that sort of deal tends to be available once teams are tanking and not over the summer. I could see this if the Spurs go get a PG and Tre Jones seems like he might want to leave and not sign an extension:

Tre Jones + for Nnaji + #28 + Strawther/Pickett

And if Jackson opts out, maybe just sneak under the 2nd apron. Need to find a cheap PF/C of some kind, that's gonna be tough, but Jokic is generally healthy and Murray isn't, so it makes sense to prioritize backup guard and pray that Alex Len or someone like that looks okay in a couple series and can be benched with Gordon as a smallball 5 in others.

[Scoot McGroot]

It looks like Nnaji + 1st rd pick in 2024 can't bring back solid backup PG, but I'm interested in this just from legality stand point

It's a tough one because I think it would in terms of value, like a Tyus Jones deal at the deadline for #28 makes enough sense, but that sort of deal tends to be available once teams are tanking and not over the summer. I could see this if the Spurs go get a PG and Tre Jones seems like he might want to leave and not sign an extension:

Tre Jones + for Nnaji + #28 + Strawther/Pickett

And if Jackson opts out, maybe just sneak under the 2nd apron. Need to find a cheap PF/C of some kind, that's gonna be tough, but Jokic is generally healthy and Murray isn't, so it makes sense to prioritize backup guard and pray that Alex Len or someone like that looks okay in a couple series and can be benched with Gordon as a smallball 5 in others.

Because Zeke Nnaji makes less than Tre Jones, it would require Denver to aggregate salaries, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. By matching with Nnaji at 110% instead of 100%, they would be hard capped at the 1st apron. If they plan on keeping KCP, either of those would be difficult to downright impossible.

[BelgradeNugget]

It looks like Nnaji + 1st rd pick in 2024 can't bring back solid backup PG, but I'm interested in this just from legality stand point

It's a tough one because I think it would in terms of value, like a Tyus Jones deal at the deadline for #28 makes enough sense, but that sort of deal tends to be available once teams are tanking and not over the summer. I could see this if the Spurs go get a PG and Tre Jones seems like he might want to leave and not sign an extension:

Tre Jones + for Nnaji + #28 + Strawther/Pickett

And if Jackson opts out, maybe just sneak under the 2nd apron. Need to find a cheap PF/C of some kind, that's gonna be tough, but Jokic is generally healthy and Murray isn't, so it makes sense to prioritize backup guard and pray that Alex Len or someone like that looks okay in a couple series and can be benched with Gordon as a smallball 5 in others.

Because Zeke Nnaji makes less than Tre Jones, it would require Denver to aggregate salaries, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. By matching with Nnaji at 110% instead of 100%, they would be hard capped at the 1st apron. If they plan on keeping KCP, either of those would be difficult to downright impossible.

I don't think Trae Jones is a good trade target for Nuggets and don't think Nuggets are good team for him. Here I mentioned Micic and McConell. They are 30+ years old veterans who won't get any crazy contracts in the future and who can be ready to sacrifice minutes, shots...to win.
Trae Jones started 80% of his games in last 2 years, playing 28 minutes per game and the only reason for him not to resign with the Spurs is if they see him as backup and he want starting job. If he goes to Nuggets his role will be even more deminished and for 24 yo player that is not way to build career. He is overqalified for Nuggets backup job.

[Scoot McGroot]

It's a tough one because I think it would in terms of value, like a Tyus Jones deal at the deadline for #28 makes enough sense, but that sort of deal tends to be available once teams are tanking and not over the summer. I could see this if the Spurs go get a PG and Tre Jones seems like he might want to leave and not sign an extension:

Tre Jones + for Nnaji + #28 + Strawther/Pickett

And if Jackson opts out, maybe just sneak under the 2nd apron. Need to find a cheap PF/C of some kind, that's gonna be tough, but Jokic is generally healthy and Murray isn't, so it makes sense to prioritize backup guard and pray that Alex Len or someone like that looks okay in a couple series and can be benched with Gordon as a smallball 5 in others.

Because Zeke Nnaji makes less than Tre Jones, it would require Denver to aggregate salaries, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. By matching with Nnaji at 110% instead of 100%, they would be hard capped at the 1st apron. If they plan on keeping KCP, either of those would be difficult to downright impossible.

I don't think Trae Jones is a good trade target for Nuggets and don't think Nuggets are good team for him. Here I mentioned Micic and McConell. They are 30+ years old veterans who won't get any crazy contracts in the future and who can be ready to sacrifice minutes, shots...to win.
Trae Jones started 80% of his games in last 2 years, playing 28 minutes per game and the only reason for him not to resign with the Spurs is if they see him as backup and he want starting job. If he goes to Nuggets his role will be even more deminished and for 24 yo player that is not way to build career. He is overqalified for Nuggets backup job.

I was just speaking to the legal mechanics of Denver trying to acquire Tre Jones or, previously, TJ McConnell. Neither seem likely as Denver would have to sell off some talent to stay under the 1st or 2nd aprons depending on how they acquired those players.