Harris and Marshall

[Godaddycurse]

I like Khalil's suggestion. Mavs see if a team will take THJ into space and use that money to split between DJJ and Marshall. Think those 2 would be solid enough for the Mavs SF situation. Of course I'd do it for Green too

you'd have to pay someone to do that. probably cost a few 2nds

I think Detroit would be better off taking THJ for free versus signing some of the contracts we predict here..

Nah they need to aim higher than THJ. He is not moving any needles for them. This would be like the joe harris move last year except even worse without incentives

[jayjaysee]

you'd have to pay someone to do that. probably cost a few 2nds

I think Detroit would be better off taking THJ for free versus signing some of the contracts we predict here..

Nah they need to aim higher than THJ. He is not moving any needles for them. This would be like the joe harris move last year except even worse without incentives

I’m not sure I’d compare Harris to THJ or why we would in general? They aren’t very similar players. Harris was an absolutely elite single skill offensive player and every team would want.. THJ is not elite at anything, but doesn’t kill you at anything.. And I definitely would not compare the injured Joe Harris that actually played for the Pistons to THJ. And then half the people liked the trade for Detroit until they saw the version of Joe they got.

And Joe took Detroit out of free agency, before it began.. This year Detroit is in the kind of situation where they can sign two of Demar, Tobias Harris and Bridges to 100+ million dollar deals, which is not really a good thing…. Only signing one of those and then adding THJ to the bench next to Simone, that feels a lot healthier..

I know your feelings on THJ. I don’t like his game either. But he makes 16 million and then goes away. It’s no longer really a factor IMO, a second? Sure. “A few” ehh..

[LightTheBeam]

I'd probably throw Naji the 3 year MLE from Kings POV.

26, great defender, started hitting 3s this year, good size. Kings are very short on guys like this. But definitely could flop on his next deal.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm with godaddy that Dallas should owe Detroit something to take THJ's contract on.
I'm with jay in that Detroit could do worse, a lot worse on a short term medium contract--provided they get some sort of asset.

If Detroit gets word any good free agents worth signing aren't coming, then doing something like that is better than giving stupid money that hinders you if your young players start developing.

[Godaddycurse]

I think Detroit would be better off taking THJ for free versus signing some of the contracts we predict here..

Nah they need to aim higher than THJ. He is not moving any needles for them. This would be like the joe harris move last year except even worse without incentives

I’m not sure I’d compare Harris to THJ or why we would in general? They aren’t very similar players. Harris was an absolutely elite single skill player. THJ is not elite at anything, but doesn’t kill you at anything.. And I definitely would not compare the injured Joe Harris that actually played for the Pistons to THJ. And then half the people liked the trade for Detroit until they saw the version of Joe they got.

And Joe took Detroit out of free agency, before it began.. This year Detroit is in the kind of situation where they can sign two of Demar, Tobias Harris and Bridges to 100+ million dollar deals, which is not really a good thing…. Only signing one of those and then adding THJ to the bench next to Simone, that feels a lot healthier..

I know your feeling son THJ. I don’t like his game either. But he makes 16 million and then goes away. It’s no longer really a factor IMO.

Both Harris and THJ are 1 yr veteran overpaid SGs who would be added to an already crowded backcourt. I dont think THJ adds any wins for this team and it would be a big waste of capspace. They are better off chasing Monk or someone who makes more impact if they want to add to their already crowded backcourt (Grimes/Sasser/Cade/Ivey).

[Texas Chuck]

Both Harris and THJ are 1 yr veteran overpaid SGs who would be added to an already crowded backcourt. I dont think THJ adds any wins for this team and it would be a big waste of capspace. They are better off chasing Monk or someone who makes more impact if they want to add to their already crowded backcourt (Grimes/Sasser/Cade/Ivey).

I mean are the better on the court next year with Monk instead of Timmy? Yeah maybe I guess. But its probably like 1/2 a game or something totally marginal. Monk's impact stats are not great.

But are they better with 4/$100M of Monk? I really am not sure. And I think this is part of jay's point. Yes, if Detroit can sign quality free agents that make sense, they should do that. But if its Monk and Tobias? I'd much rather one year it again.

[Godaddycurse]

I'm with godaddy that Dallas should owe Detroit something to take THJ's contract on.
I'm with jay in that Detroit could do worse, a lot worse on a short term medium contract--provided they get some sort of asset.

If Detroit gets word any good free agents worth signing aren't coming, then doing something like that is better than giving stupid money that hinders you if your young players start developing.

I think Detroit will need to pull a houston and hand out some FVV-like contract(s) to attract veterans to come and help them win. Their priority #1 is to win right now

[Texas Chuck]

I'm with godaddy that Dallas should owe Detroit something to take THJ's contract on.
I'm with jay in that Detroit could do worse, a lot worse on a short term medium contract--provided they get some sort of asset.

If Detroit gets word any good free agents worth signing aren't coming, then doing something like that is better than giving stupid money that hinders you if your young players start developing.

I think Detroit will need to pull a houston and hand out some FVV-like contract(s) to attract veterans to come and help them win. Their priority #1 is to win right now

I mean I think their priority is to be competitive and not lose 20 games in a row. I don't think there is a realistic path to winning and we saw even a more talented Houston team unable to make the playoffs even after adding two veteran starters including one in FVV who is better than anyone they are likely to sign (DeRozan I guess a possible exception?).

I think there are ways to being a more competitive bad team without saddling yourself with contracts you will regret. Got to be something in between Joe Harris/THJ and stupid contracts to C and D level free agents, right?

[Godaddycurse]

I'm with godaddy that Dallas should owe Detroit something to take THJ's contract on.
I'm with jay in that Detroit could do worse, a lot worse on a short term medium contract--provided they get some sort of asset.

If Detroit gets word any good free agents worth signing aren't coming, then doing something like that is better than giving stupid money that hinders you if your young players start developing.

I think Detroit will need to pull a houston and hand out some FVV-like contract(s) to attract veterans to come and help them win. Their priority #1 is to win right now

I mean I think their priority is to be competitive and not lose 20 games in a row. I don't think there is a realistic path to winning and we saw even a more talented Houston team unable to make the playoffs even after adding two veteran starters including one in FVV who is better than anyone they are likely to sign (DeRozan I guess a possible exception?).

I think there are ways to being a more competitive bad team without saddling yourself with contracts you will regret. Got to be something in between Joe Harris/THJ and stupid contracts to C and D level free agents, right?

i think the somthing in between is a FVV like contract, ie 2 yr high AAV to preserve future flexibility

[Texas Chuck]

I think Detroit will need to pull a houston and hand out some FVV-like contract(s) to attract veterans to come and help them win. Their priority #1 is to win right now

I mean I think their priority is to be competitive and not lose 20 games in a row. I don't think there is a realistic path to winning and we saw even a more talented Houston team unable to make the playoffs even after adding two veteran starters including one in FVV who is better than anyone they are likely to sign (DeRozan I guess a possible exception?).

I think there are ways to being a more competitive bad team without saddling yourself with contracts you will regret. Got to be something in between Joe Harris/THJ and stupid contracts to C and D level free agents, right?

i think the somthing in between is a FVV like contract, ie 2 yr high AAV to preserve future flexibility

Got some names? That actually move the needle? Because this screams Tobias Harris and what does he really do for them?

[Godaddycurse]

I mean I think their priority is to be competitive and not lose 20 games in a row. I don't think there is a realistic path to winning and we saw even a more talented Houston team unable to make the playoffs even after adding two veteran starters including one in FVV who is better than anyone they are likely to sign (DeRozan I guess a possible exception?).

I think there are ways to being a more competitive bad team without saddling yourself with contracts you will regret. Got to be something in between Joe Harris/THJ and stupid contracts to C and D level free agents, right?

i think the somthing in between is a FVV like contract, ie 2 yr high AAV to preserve future flexibility

Got some names? That actually move the needle? Because this screams Tobias Harris and what does he really do for them?

KCP (2/50-60)
Kyle Anderson (2/30-40)
Jones (If they want to add to backcourt) (2/40-50)
Derozan (2/?70+)

I like all these more than Harris (and THJ). Derozan offers leadership, Jones to improve playmaking, and the other 2 for solid 2 way play

[jayjaysee]

Yeah. Like I said “one second” sure.. a few seems unnecessary given the options Detroit realistically has for their 70+ million dollars I believe. If every player they want will take their money, that’s really exciting for them. Obviously, THJ isn’t Detroit’s plan A or G….. What do you pair Monk 90+ million dollars for when you invested so highly in Ivey/Cade (and those other guards)

Id also much rather pay to turn THJ into Grimes. And dumping THJ just to hard cap the team by signing Naji feels like a mistake as well. So the entire premise is just something I don’t follow I guess.

[vege]

Yeah. Like I said “one second” sure.. a few seems unnecessary given the options Detroit realistically has for their 70+ million dollars I believe. If every player they want will take their money, that’s really exciting for them. Obviously, THJ isn’t Detroit’s plan A or G….. What do you pair Monk 90+ million dollars for when you invested so highly in Ivey/Cade (and those other guards)

Id also much rather pay to turn THJ into Grimes. And dumping THJ just to hard cap the team by signing Naji feels like a mistake as well. So the entire premise is just something I don’t follow I guess.

Worst case scenario Detroit could throw 2 year deals to DJJr and Naji Marshall, and they're both 10x better than THJr. So no, repeating Joe Harris should never ever be an option again, and as long as Weaver is not calling the shots anymore, hopefully for the entire league, it will never happen again.

Neither of those guys would say no to a 2 years 25-30 mil offer even with a TO for a 3rd year.

So if all better FAs say no, and there are no good trades to use the raw cap space, they still have that rout to go.

THJr is bad money, just like Joe Harris was. Detroit should not continue be the league's farm and laughing stock. What they've been doing is embarrassing enough.

If Weaver is still in charge, sure, that could be a possibility, he is the worst GM of all time after all, and he have done dumber stuff in the past.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah. Like I said “one second” sure.. a few seems unnecessary given the options Detroit realistically has for their 70+ million dollars I believe. If every player they want will take their money, that’s really exciting for them. Obviously, THJ isn’t Detroit’s plan A or G….. What do you pair Monk 90+ million dollars for when you invested so highly in Ivey/Cade (and those other guards)

Id also much rather pay to turn THJ into Grimes. And dumping THJ just to hard cap the team by signing Naji feels like a mistake as well. So the entire premise is just something I don’t follow I guess.

Worst case scenario Detroit could throw 2 year deals to DJJr and Naji Marshall, and they're both 10x better than THJr. So no, repeating Joe Harris should never ever be an option again, and as long as Weaver is not calling the shots anymore, hopefully for the entire league, it will never happen again.

Neither of those guys would say no to a 2 years 25-30 mil offer even with a TO for a 3rd year.

So if all better FAs say no, and there are no good trades to use the raw cap space, they still have that rout to go.

THJr is bad money, just like Joe Harris was. Detroit should not continue be the league's farm and laughing stock. What they've been doing is embarrassing enough.

If Weaver is still in charge, sure, that could be a possibility, he is the worst GM of all time after all, and he have done dumber stuff in the past.

THJ makes 16.1 million next year. Joe made 19.9 mil this year.

Joe was a really great shooter who used to play defense and I’m not even sure if he was picked up after being waived due to his old injuries…

THJ is still the same player he has always been.. which is a frustrating not great at anything
JAG that was overpaid for a long time..

It’s really weird to continue to compare these two guys to me. Don’t want to say PTSD but.. I just don’t see it.

And unlike last year, it’s not Harris and Wiseman and run it back. Detroit has enough cap space to take THJ and sign a few guys or a max guy or etc…

Again, I think it makes a lot more sense for both sides to be talking about paying for Grimes than just dumping THJ. Maybe that’s a terrible idea as well, but dumping THJ just to pay DJJ more (or use MLE on Naji) and than have no replacement for THJ.. feels like a flawed idea still to me.

[vege]

Yeah. Like I said “one second” sure.. a few seems unnecessary given the options Detroit realistically has for their 70+ million dollars I believe. If every player they want will take their money, that’s really exciting for them. Obviously, THJ isn’t Detroit’s plan A or G….. What do you pair Monk 90+ million dollars for when you invested so highly in Ivey/Cade (and those other guards)

Id also much rather pay to turn THJ into Grimes. And dumping THJ just to hard cap the team by signing Naji feels like a mistake as well. So the entire premise is just something I don’t follow I guess.

Worst case scenario Detroit could throw 2 year deals to DJJr and Naji Marshall, and they're both 10x better than THJr. So no, repeating Joe Harris should never ever be an option again, and as long as Weaver is not calling the shots anymore, hopefully for the entire league, it will never happen again.

Neither of those guys would say no to a 2 years 25-30 mil offer even with a TO for a 3rd year.

So if all better FAs say no, and there are no good trades to use the raw cap space, they still have that rout to go.

THJr is bad money, just like Joe Harris was. Detroit should not continue be the league's farm and laughing stock. What they've been doing is embarrassing enough.

If Weaver is still in charge, sure, that could be a possibility, he is the worst GM of all time after all, and he have done dumber stuff in the past.

THJ makes 16.1 million next year. Joe made 19.9 mil this year.

Joe was a really great shooter who used to play defense and I’m not even sure if he was picked up after being waived due to his old injuries…

THJ is still the same player he has always been.. which is a frustrating not great at anything
JAG that was overpaid for a long time..

It’s really weird to continue to compare these two guys to me. Don’t want to say PTSD but.. I just don’t see it.

And unlike last year, it’s not Harris and Wiseman and run it back. Detroit has enough cap space to take THJ and sign a few guys or a max guy or etc…

Again, I think it makes a lot more sense for both sides to be talking about paying for Grimes than just dumping THJ. Maybe that’s a terrible idea as well, but dumping THJ just to pay DJJ more (or use MLE on Naji) and than have no replacement for THJ.. feels like a flawed idea still to me.

Detroit paid a lot to acquire Grimes, do you think Dallas would be willing to pay a lot to acquire Grimes? Because a health Grimes is a player Detroit desperatedly need, so they shouldn't be willing to let him go unless it's an overpay.

[jayjaysee]

Detroit paid a lot to acquire Grimes, do you think Dallas would be willing to pay a lot to acquire Grimes? Because a health Grimes is a player Detroit desperatedly need, so they shouldn't be willing to let him go unless it's an overpay.

I don’t know what “a lot” is.. But I’ve offered between Prosper+Toronto 2nd and Dallas’ 2025 first for him in different deals? With THJ included..

Saving the money to use the MLE while getting someone you can hope is a long term rotation piece feels worth overpaying.

[Texas Chuck]

Detroit gave up Bojan/Burks for Grimes/expiring fluff. And since its important to Vege to play the sunk cost game, its basically Olynyk for Grimes.

Not sure that's a lot. But that's also totally irrelevant. If Detroit sees him as a core piece(I have no idea but going with Vege here) then just keep him.

But in terms of just value THJ/Prosper/projected high 2nd next year for Grimes feels like an overpay by Dallas already. jay is willing to do that and I get his logic. I'm just not a believer in Grimes really so I'd rather Detroit kept him at those prices.

And if I was offering on him, I'd leave THJ out of it(at least on this board where THJ is the new Dwight Powell in terms of he's still valued as if he's a guy who can't play at all starting his 4 year deal instead of being at the end of it) and find out what the price is on just Grimes. But anything beyond a couple 2nds and I'm out.

[Godaddycurse]

Detroit gave up Bojan/Burks for Grimes/expiring fluff. And since its important to Vege to play the sunk cost game, its basically Olynyk for Grimes.

Not sure that's a lot. But that's also totally irrelevant. If Detroit sees him as a core piece(I have no idea but going with Vege here) then just keep him.

But in terms of just value THJ/Prosper/projected high 2nd next year for Grimes feels like an overpay by Dallas already. jay is willing to do that and I get his logic. I'm just not a believer in Grimes really so I'd rather Detroit kept him at those prices.

And if I was offering on him, I'd leave THJ out of it(at least on this board where THJ is the new Dwight Powell in terms of he's still valued as if he's a guy who can't play at all starting his 4 year deal instead of being at the end of it) and find out what the price is on just Grimes. But anything beyond a couple 2nds and I'm out.

I think prosper for grimes makes sense

[vege]

Detroit paid a lot to acquire Grimes, do you think Dallas would be willing to pay a lot to acquire Grimes? Because a health Grimes is a player Detroit desperatedly need, so they shouldn't be willing to let him go unless it's an overpay.

I don’t know what “a lot” is.. But I’ve offered between Prosper+Toronto 2nd and Dallas’ 2025 first for him in different deals? With THJ included..

Saving the money to use the MLE while getting someone you can hope is a long term rotation piece feels worth overpaying.

Detroit rejected 2 1sts for Bojan last year, and they traded Bojan + Burks, who was really good for us for Grimes + deadweight expirings and not good 2nds (1 or 2 I don't remember but it's unimportant).

A healthy Grimes, hitting his shots and playing defense, would be a much more valuable player than Ivey for us FWIW. Grimes and Fontecchio are, in theory, a good fit next to Cade.

They also traded a very good 2nd for a player, so I believe Detroit are not willing to trade cap space/players they like for picks at this stage. They may want pieces that fit around Cade, he will get a max extension, and we're not going to get cap space anymore. Detroit need real players. Prosper and THJr are not it.

[vege]

Detroit gave up Bojan/Burks for Grimes/expiring fluff. And since its important to Vege to play the sunk cost game, its basically Olynyk for Grimes.

Not sure that's a lot. But that's also totally irrelevant. If Detroit sees him as a core piece(I have no idea but going with Vege here) then just keep him.

But in terms of just value THJ/Prosper/projected high 2nd next year for Grimes feels like an overpay by Dallas already. jay is willing to do that and I get his logic. I'm just not a believer in Grimes really so I'd rather Detroit kept him at those prices.

And if I was offering on him, I'd leave THJ out of it(at least on this board where THJ is the new Dwight Powell in terms of he's still valued as if he's a guy who can't play at all starting his 4 year deal instead of being at the end of it) and find out what the price is on just Grimes. But anything beyond a couple 2nds and I'm out.

I think prosper for grimes makes sense

Detroit should be done acquiring underwhelming raw prospects, they need real NBA player. Grimes is at least 3-4 years ahead of Prosper in his development, and has a much more desirable skillset, so no, it doesn't make any sense at all for Detroit, for Dallas of course it does.