ORL - To PG or not to PG.

[Skybox]

Banchero is very young so things can change but but so far he's been a losing player and it's not certain the Magic should build around him over Franz Wagner. Banchero might get you buckets but he doesn't profile as sufficiently efficient due to poor outside shooting and also he doesn't get to the rim a whole lot. Also he draws fouls at a decent rate but he's a really bad free throw shooter. A guy who chucks a lot of difficult two-pointers, doesn't pass well, commits a lot of dribbling turnovers, and is lazy on the boards and on defense.

I'm guessing you've seen maybe two ORL games this year? Paolo is an excellent passer-he led the team in assists and should have had a LOT more if ORL had guys that could knock down open 3's. For all of ORL's team-wide 3pt woes, they actually generate a very high number of open looks...that's all Paolo and Franz driving to the hoop and drawing fouls at a lot more than a 'decent rate'.

The team improved significantly in both years (including runaway ROY season) of Paolo. Not sure how that's not a winning player.

Orlando absolutely did not generate a very high number of open looks from three. This is a thing that can be quantified so don't go by your "eye-test."

There are many advanced stat-heavy posts all season on the ORL pages. ORL was among the league leaders in generating "good 3pt shots"...it's not post-CLE news...if you know anything about ORL's backcourt -this isn't a revelation.

[Residual-Heat]

Banchero is very young so things can change but but so far he's been a losing player and it's not certain the Magic should build around him over Franz Wagner. Banchero might get you buckets but he doesn't profile as sufficiently efficient due to poor outside shooting and also he doesn't get to the rim a whole lot. Also he draws fouls at a decent rate but he's a really bad free throw shooter. A guy who chucks a lot of difficult two-pointers, doesn't pass well, commits a lot of dribbling turnovers, and is lazy on the boards and on defense.

huh? 2 years in the league, improved his 3 pt shot by 40% in 1 year, shot 38% from 3 his first playoff series. he led his team is assist in the playoffs. he will make turnovers and a little chucking when as he grows, and when he gets very little help. think you are being overly harsh on a 21 yr old. and yes, he needs to improve his FT %, but these are things that can improve

and he has shown he can step up his defense in the play offs. Anyone who still thinks Paolo isnt a "winning player" hasnt been watching. There's a reason the team started improving when he arrived. He led his team in points, rebounds, assists, and was the best player on a 47 win team, then went on to average 27-4-8 in the play offs, all as a 20-21 year old.

[BK_2020]

Banchero is very young so things can change but but so far he's been a losing player and it's not certain the Magic should build around him over Franz Wagner. Banchero might get you buckets but he doesn't profile as sufficiently efficient due to poor outside shooting and also he doesn't get to the rim a whole lot. Also he draws fouls at a decent rate but he's a really bad free throw shooter. A guy who chucks a lot of difficult two-pointers, doesn't pass well, commits a lot of dribbling turnovers, and is lazy on the boards and on defense.

huh? 2 years in the league, improved his 3 pt shot by 40% in 1 year, shot 38% from 3 his first playoff series. he led his team is assist in the playoffs. he will make turnovers and a little chucking when as he grows, and when he gets very little help. think you are being overly harsh on a 21 yr old. and yes, he needs to improve his FT %, but these are things that can improve

and he has shown he can step up his defense in the play offs. Anyone who still thinks Paolo isnt a "winning player" hasnt been watching. There's a reason the team started improving when he arrived. He led his team in points, rebounds, assists, and was the best player on a 47 win team, then went on to average 27-4-8 in the play offs, all as a 20-21 year old.

The Magic are +0.0 per 100 in Banchero's minutes this season. Last season they were -3.9 per 100. He very literally has not been a winning player. He is still very young so he might turn it around and the Magic might begin to win the minutes when Banchero plays but there has yet to be a sustained period in which the Magic were better with Banchero on the floor than without him. You just never see that with players that go on to become franchise-carrying stars, even second-tier ones like Mitchell or Booker.

[Residual-Heat]

huh? 2 years in the league, improved his 3 pt shot by 40% in 1 year, shot 38% from 3 his first playoff series. he led his team is assist in the playoffs. he will make turnovers and a little chucking when as he grows, and when he gets very little help. think you are being overly harsh on a 21 yr old. and yes, he needs to improve his FT %, but these are things that can improve

and he has shown he can step up his defense in the play offs. Anyone who still thinks Paolo isnt a "winning player" hasnt been watching. There's a reason the team started improving when he arrived. He led his team in points, rebounds, assists, and was the best player on a 47 win team, then went on to average 27-4-8 in the play offs, all as a 20-21 year old.

The Magic are +0.0 per 100 in Banchero's minutes this season. Last season they were -3.9 per 100. He very literally has not been a winning player. He is still very young so he might turn it around and the Magic might begin to win the minutes when Banchero plays but there has yet to be a sustained period in which the Magic were better with Banchero on the floor than without him. You just never see that with players that go on to become franchise-carrying stars, even second-tier ones like Mitchell or Booker.

Sure, next you're going to tell me Goga Bitadze is the better player because he has a better +/-, right? Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, Joe ingles, Mo, Fultz, are all better than him too

[penbeast0]

Tyus Jones, though if you have a desperate desire for a scoring rather than playmaking point Jordan Poole might be available.

[Skybox]

Tyus Jones, though if you have a desperate desire for a scoring rather than playmaking point Jordan Poole might be available.

Hey, I don't even joke about Poole on the ORL board...he's the black mark on my nearly perfect trade proposal history

[Skybox]

huh? 2 years in the league, improved his 3 pt shot by 40% in 1 year, shot 38% from 3 his first playoff series. he led his team is assist in the playoffs. he will make turnovers and a little chucking when as he grows, and when he gets very little help. think you are being overly harsh on a 21 yr old. and yes, he needs to improve his FT %, but these are things that can improve

and he has shown he can step up his defense in the play offs. Anyone who still thinks Paolo isnt a "winning player" hasnt been watching. There's a reason the team started improving when he arrived. He led his team in points, rebounds, assists, and was the best player on a 47 win team, then went on to average 27-4-8 in the play offs, all as a 20-21 year old.

The Magic are +0.0 per 100 in Banchero's minutes this season. Last season they were -3.9 per 100. He very literally has not been a winning player. He is still very young so he might turn it around and the Magic might begin to win the minutes when Banchero plays but there has yet to be a sustained period in which the Magic were better with Banchero on the floor than without him. You just never see that with players that go on to become franchise-carrying stars, even second-tier ones like Mitchell or Booker.

I guess if you look hard enough you can find a stat to support anything...sometimes the eye test isn't flawed. BTW, he's 21 and, other than Mitchell, he was far and away the best player in the series.

I'm pretty comfortable saying there's only a handful of players I'd consider trading him for and probably noone over 26yo, given his age, icy mentality, and freakish physical gifts.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I'd have it Murray, try to go after Paul George, than Tyus Jones as a fallback option. Monks scares the absolute piss out of me in terms of was it just a career year or can he do this as a starter.

Regardless I think you see the Magic make that next step and somewhat go for it in terms of spending wise.

[_GH0ST_]

Tyler Herro would be a perfect fit for Orlando

[BK_2020]

and he has shown he can step up his defense in the play offs. Anyone who still thinks Paolo isnt a "winning player" hasnt been watching. There's a reason the team started improving when he arrived. He led his team in points, rebounds, assists, and was the best player on a 47 win team, then went on to average 27-4-8 in the play offs, all as a 20-21 year old.

The Magic are +0.0 per 100 in Banchero's minutes this season. Last season they were -3.9 per 100. He very literally has not been a winning player. He is still very young so he might turn it around and the Magic might begin to win the minutes when Banchero plays but there has yet to be a sustained period in which the Magic were better with Banchero on the floor than without him. You just never see that with players that go on to become franchise-carrying stars, even second-tier ones like Mitchell or Booker.

I guess if you look hard enough you can find a stat to support anything...sometimes the eye test isn't flawed. BTW, he's 21 and, other than Mitchell, he was far and away the best player in the series.

I'm pretty comfortable saying there's only a handful of players I'd consider trading him for and probably noone over 26yo, given his age, icy mentality, and freakish physical gifts.

I'm just saying the numbers are what they are and the Magic would be foolish to discard Franz for some notion of a second star to pair with Banchero. Franz is the real deal.

[gswhoops]

Harden should have been in this poll.

Harden on a 2-3 year deal wouldn't be my first option, but if you can get him for nothing but cap space, he'd be a good fit. Problem (as always) is going to be making sure you get the motivated Harden.

[ProcessDoctor]

Trae is the answer.

[dms269]

Trae is the answer.

The cost for Trae would likely be counter productive. I don't see Atlanta wanting just a package of unproven youth and picks for him since they can't rebuild.

[Xman]

Mitchell would be perfect - but I doubt he forces his way out of CLE and then goes to Disneyland.
Murray is a popular choice.

ATL gets Black, Jett, (optional CAnthony), picks (2025 DEN 1st, 2025 ORL 1st, enough?)
ORL gets Capela, Murray, (optional Bogdanovic)
- Could upgrade form upgrade from Murray to Trae by adding more picks.
- Capela fills a need as solid backup big getting 20 minutes a night. Plus, ORL has cap space. Could even add Bogdanovic if ATL wanted to ship him also (would provide shooting off the bench which ORL could use).
- ATL gets big cash savings and solid prospects.
- could work in a third team easily.


LaVine and Vleet are about $41 mil and CJ is about $36. Still, ORL has the cap space - and adding some combination of Jett, Black, Cole or picks might get one of those.

[Billl]

Orlando is a nice young team. No reason to start sending out multiple picks that would be needed to land any b-level star at this point though. Paolo is only 21, and while talented, is not ready yet to be a #1 option for a true contender.

They should really just be concentrating on adding an efficient 2-way guard. Eventually they will need to add another bigtime scorer, but this is too early on their timeline to start giving up picks.

[Ball4life32]

Mitchell would be perfect - but I doubt he forces his way out of CLE and then goes to Disneyland.
Murray is a popular choice.

ATL gets Black, Jett, (optional CAnthony), picks (2025 DEN 1st, 2025 ORL 1st, enough?)
ORL gets Capela, Murray, (optional Bogdanovic)
- Could upgrade form upgrade from Murray to Trae by adding more picks.
- Capela fills a need as solid backup big getting 20 minutes a night. Plus, ORL has cap space. Could even add Bogdanovic if ATL wanted to ship him also (would provide shooting off the bench which ORL could use).
- ATL gets big cash savings and solid prospects.
- could work in a third team easily.


LaVine and Vleet are about $41 mil and CJ is about $36. Still, ORL has the cap space - and adding some combination of Jett, Black, Cole or picks might get one of those.

Not appealing for Atl. I don’t think they want young prospects who haven’t done anything and likely non lottery picks.

[Skybox]

The Magic are +0.0 per 100 in Banchero's minutes this season. Last season they were -3.9 per 100. He very literally has not been a winning player. He is still very young so he might turn it around and the Magic might begin to win the minutes when Banchero plays but there has yet to be a sustained period in which the Magic were better with Banchero on the floor than without him. You just never see that with players that go on to become franchise-carrying stars, even second-tier ones like Mitchell or Booker.

I guess if you look hard enough you can find a stat to support anything...sometimes the eye test isn't flawed. BTW, he's 21 and, other than Mitchell, he was far and away the best player in the series.

I'm pretty comfortable saying there's only a handful of players I'd consider trading him for and probably noone over 26yo, given his age, icy mentality, and freakish physical gifts.

I'm just saying the numbers are what they are and the Magic would be foolish to discard Franz for some notion of a second star to pair with Banchero. Franz is the real deal.

Maybe I jumped into the wrong conversation...Totally agree about Franz. They fit together.

[tiderulz]

Tyler Herro would be a perfect fit for Orlando

he actually wouldnt, since we need a PG, someone who is healthy and not overpaid

[tiderulz]

The Magic are +0.0 per 100 in Banchero's minutes this season. Last season they were -3.9 per 100. He very literally has not been a winning player. He is still very young so he might turn it around and the Magic might begin to win the minutes when Banchero plays but there has yet to be a sustained period in which the Magic were better with Banchero on the floor than without him. You just never see that with players that go on to become franchise-carrying stars, even second-tier ones like Mitchell or Booker.

I guess if you look hard enough you can find a stat to support anything...sometimes the eye test isn't flawed. BTW, he's 21 and, other than Mitchell, he was far and away the best player in the series.

I'm pretty comfortable saying there's only a handful of players I'd consider trading him for and probably noone over 26yo, given his age, icy mentality, and freakish physical gifts.

I'm just saying the numbers are what they are and the Magic would be foolish to discard Franz for some notion of a second star to pair with Banchero. Franz is the real deal.

who literally folded in the moment (1-15). i think Franz is good, but he self admitted he doesnt have a killer instinct and isnt the type to take over a game. he is a good robin but not a batman

[Skybox]

Harden should have been in this poll.

Harden on a 2-3 year deal wouldn't be my first option, but if you can get him for nothing but cap space, he'd be a good fit. Problem (as always) is going to be making sure you get the motivated Harden.

good things happening in ORL. Harden, on paper is a great fit...Harden, in reality, has left more cities burning than Godzilla.