Instant Reaction: What Do The Magic Do This Off-Season?

[R-DAWG]

Pretty close to a dream summer for me...I'd probably explore the FA market for a solid bench vet before I re-up Ingles...I love the guy, but he's really not contributing much at this point and he won't be any younger next season. Magic might have the mojo to be attractive to one of those guys who, historically, run to LAL, etc.

What numbers are you projecting on Hartenstein? I don't see him leaving the Knicks unless it's an overpay in the $20MM per year range.

My understanding is...(Katz on KFS) “The Knicks are allowed to offer Hartenstein up to 175% of his current salary [$14.3M base + $1.8M in bonuses], but…if someone offers 3Y $65M, the Knicks can’t match it.”...so, imo, we may not be talking about an overpay - more like fair market value: Plus, ORL has enough cap space to front-load it and have a descending deal that gets even better right around the time the rookie extensions kick in....I would think 4yrs x $18m would get him away from NY, but I'm not sure who else might be bidding. I think I like Claxton as a better fit - but he's likely getting overpaid or SnT. NYK can't even do a SnT, since they can't sign him to a fair deal....ORL could, conceivably get Monk and Hartenstein on straight-up free agent signings without giving up any assets or existing players. Having WCJ as a backup at 5/4 would be a great luxury and, maybe at some point, a trade chip. Monk's not my favorite, but he's a really good fit too...all of this is dependent on which cap teams might be in the running for Hartenstein and create a bidding war. I don't see the fit for other cap space teams for Monk.

ORL should have plenty of explorable directions for significant improvement. The FO should be commended for putting themselves in such a strong offseason position...they should also be run out of town if they sit on their thumbs and wave the "organic internal development flag" while ORL falls off of the elevator and onto the treadmill.

Can NY still offer I-Hart 7.5% annual raises and/or a 5th year - things you can only offer your own free agents. If that's the case, NY can offer a 4 year, $72MM deal which averages $18MM per year. Sure they can't front load it but, coming from a Knicks fan, as good as I-Hart has been i'm not sure how excited I am paying him $20MM per year. Feels like the kind of guy at those numbers where you can replace 75% of his production for 50% of the cost.

[ConSarnit]

Well, Claxton is an UFA, there's no need to get fancy, if he wants to come to Orlando, he'll just sign, if the number is right - which is probably around 22 per. All indications have him resigning in Brooklyn with mutual interest and Weltman's a pretty smart guy, so I don't see him trying to overpay to get him - which I would think would be in the 4/100 range to convince him.

I said overpay him if necessary, meaning necessary to get him to leave Brooklyn. If he’s worth 22, so 4yr88.. then I’d offer him 4yr94 or even 4yr100… But it would be front loaded to ease the pain in years 3 and 4 once the team is very expensive

If it's a Claxton-type you want, why not just trade for Poeltl. The 2 are probably the most similar centers that I've ever seen, with Poeltl being 2+" taller, 30 lbs heavier, slightly better passer and a hair more efficient; Claxton is of course 3 years younger, and a slightly better rim protector and has some room to grow. They are basically the same player with the exception that Poeltl is most likely available..

They don’t sound too similar with this breakdown.

But I would consider him once Hartenstein and Claxton refuse to sign.. Always take the free agent before paying for a player if they are comparable, right?..

I just think Toronto will have a very high valuation for him, due to the need they have for him… Even if they draft Sarr, they might want to wait til midseason to trade Poeltl *unless it’s a great deal* type situation.. If Toronto’s pick conveys to San Antonio, maybe their plan changes a bit..

I don’t get this infatuation with Hartenstein or Claxton or really any other C. ORL already had one of the top defenses on the league. You add these guys to slightly bump up your rebounding while cratering your offense? It doesn’t make sense.

Your offense sucked in the playoffs and you shot 31% from 3. So you guys want to add less shooting?

Franz
Paolo
Hartenstein/Claxton

That might be the worst shooting 3-5 in the league. Which team has had high level success with that poor of shooting? At least WCJ can provide some floor spacing.

It’s clear ORL needs offensive help. ORL lacks shooting and offensive creation. Most of these deals/signings probably make the offense worse. I just don’t get it at all.

ORL should look at options for guards (Mitchell? Murray?) and if that’s not available get a stop gap. Getting a marginal upgrade at C seems like the least pressing need.

[BlazersBroncos]

Rather just go make OG a huge offer and either steal him from NY or make them blow up their capspace.

A line up of Suggs, OG, Franz, PB, JI would be so fun to watch.. First team to 85 wins.

NYK would salary dump Randle before losing out OG to FA IMO.

They 100% are keeping him basically no matter the offer.

[Skybox]

Well, Claxton is an UFA, there's no need to get fancy, if he wants to come to Orlando, he'll just sign, if the number is right - which is probably around 22 per. All indications have him resigning in Brooklyn with mutual interest and Weltman's a pretty smart guy, so I don't see him trying to overpay to get him - which I would think would be in the 4/100 range to convince him.

I said overpay him if necessary, meaning necessary to get him to leave Brooklyn. If he’s worth 22, so 4yr88.. then I’d offer him 4yr94 or even 4yr100… But it would be front loaded to ease the pain in years 3 and 4 once the team is very expensive

If it's a Claxton-type you want, why not just trade for Poeltl. The 2 are probably the most similar centers that I've ever seen, with Poeltl being 2+" taller, 30 lbs heavier, slightly better passer and a hair more efficient; Claxton is of course 3 years younger, and a slightly better rim protector and has some room to grow. They are basically the same player with the exception that Poeltl is most likely available..

They don’t sound too similar with this breakdown.

But I would consider him once Hartenstein and Claxton refuse to sign.. Always take the free agent before paying for a player if they are comparable, right?..

I just think Toronto will have a very high valuation for him, due to the need they have for him… Even if they draft Sarr, they might want to wait til midseason to trade Poeltl *unless it’s a great deal* type situation.. If Toronto’s pick conveys to San Antonio, maybe their plan changes a bit..

I don’t get this infatuation with Hartenstein or Claxton or really any other C. ORL already had one of the top defenses on the league. You add these guys to slightly bump up your rebounding while cratering your offense? It doesn’t make sense.

Your offense sucked in the playoffs and you shot 31% from 3. So you guys want to add less shooting?

Franz
Paolo
Hartenstein/Claxton

That might be the worst shooting 3-5 in the league. Which team has had high level success with that poor of shooting? At least WCJ can provide some floor spacing.

It’s clear ORL needs offensive help. ORL lacks shooting and offensive creation. Most of these deals/signings probably make the offense worse. I just don’t get it at all.

ORL should look at options for guards (Mitchell? Murray?) and if that’s not available get a stop gap. Getting a marginal upgrade at C seems like the least pressing need.

The idea (at least the ones that make sense - to your point) would be to accept a tick downwards with an offensive upgrade where it belongs - in the backcourt. A shooter who can also take some of the facilitator weight off of Paolo and Franz and create an occasional basket that doesn't require Paolo to run through 3 defenders...Upgrading to a more defensive minded Center with more significant rim-protection and physicality only works AFTER the backcourt actually has something resembling a modern Lead Guard...a guy who might only avg. 16-18, but can go off for 30 if you ignore him...I kind of agree with you...the C thing is problematic without the more glaring backcourt priority being handled first.

[ConSarnit]

I said overpay him if necessary, meaning necessary to get him to leave Brooklyn. If he’s worth 22, so 4yr88.. then I’d offer him 4yr94 or even 4yr100… But it would be front loaded to ease the pain in years 3 and 4 once the team is very expensive



They don’t sound too similar with this breakdown.

But I would consider him once Hartenstein and Claxton refuse to sign.. Always take the free agent before paying for a player if they are comparable, right?..

I just think Toronto will have a very high valuation for him, due to the need they have for him… Even if they draft Sarr, they might want to wait til midseason to trade Poeltl *unless it’s a great deal* type situation.. If Toronto’s pick conveys to San Antonio, maybe their plan changes a bit..

I don’t get this infatuation with Hartenstein or Claxton or really any other C. ORL already had one of the top defenses on the league. You add these guys to slightly bump up your rebounding while cratering your offense? It doesn’t make sense.

Your offense sucked in the playoffs and you shot 31% from 3. So you guys want to add less shooting?

Franz
Paolo
Hartenstein/Claxton

That might be the worst shooting 3-5 in the league. Which team has had high level success with that poor of shooting? At least WCJ can provide some floor spacing.

It’s clear ORL needs offensive help. ORL lacks shooting and offensive creation. Most of these deals/signings probably make the offense worse. I just don’t get it at all.

ORL should look at options for guards (Mitchell? Murray?) and if that’s not available get a stop gap. Getting a marginal upgrade at C seems like the least pressing need.

The idea (at least the ones that make sense - to your point) would be to accept a tick downwards with an offensive upgrade where it belongs - in the backcourt. A shooter who can also take some of the facilitator weight off of Paolo and Franz and create an occasional basket that doesn't require Paolo to run through 3 defenders...Upgrading to a more defensive minded Center with more significant rim-protection and physicality only works AFTER the backcourt actually has something resembling a modern Lead Guard...a guy who might only avg. 16-18, but can go off for 30 if you ignore him...I kind of agree with you...the C thing is problematic without the more glaring backcourt priority being handled first.

But why do you need more defense? How is your C situation problematic?

Orlando:

-3rd best def rating in the league
-2nd best def rating in the playoffs
-22nd off rating in the regular season
-shot 31% from 3 in the playoffs
-regular season and playoff rim protection numbers were fine
-4th and 5th in reb% in the regular season and playoffs respectively

Take it from someone who has seen a front court with highly questionable shooting (Raptors with Barnes, Siakam and Poeltl): it kills your offense. How much better are you going to do than 3rd best defense? The low hanging fruit (and real progress) is going to come from perimeter play (shooting and playmaking). A small step back on defense combined with a step up to middle of the pack offense gets you to 50 wins next year. If you got that guard/wing player you’d be shooting yourself in the foot by trading for a C who can’t space the floor. You cannot build a high level team with questionable shooting from 3-5.

You just scored 100ppg on 42% shooting in the playoffs. That’s bad. Rim protection and rebounding are not your problems in the slightest.

[docholliday99]

If it's a Claxton-type you want, why not just trade for Poeltl. The 2 are probably the most similar centers that I've ever seen,

Claxton was runner up for DPOY. He switches like Isaac. Poeltl would lose a footrace with Steven Adams and Joe Ingles' dad.

Well, that was in 2022-23 and despite all the hype that year, Poeltl was slightly more efficient player - really splitting hairs. All good, he's not that slow but I quite enjoyed that Joe Ingles' dad burn lmao - that's a gooder. Both centers I'd rank right around each, between 12-16th in the league. WCJ would be lucky to break 20th.

Man Issac, if he stays healthy, easily better than the other 3 discussed.

[docholliday99]

Well, Claxton is an UFA, there's no need to get fancy, if he wants to come to Orlando, he'll just sign, if the number is right - which is probably around 22 per. All indications have him resigning in Brooklyn with mutual interest and Weltman's a pretty smart guy, so I don't see him trying to overpay to get him - which I would think would be in the 4/100 range to convince him.

I said overpay him if necessary, meaning necessary to get him to leave Brooklyn. If he’s worth 22, so 4yr88.. then I’d offer him 4yr94 or even 4yr100… But it would be front loaded to ease the pain in years 3 and 4 once the team is very expensive

Well, I don't think he's worth 22, more in the 19-20 range in the modern NBA - right where Poeltl is for a defensive center without range. A starting salary of 22, I think that's leaning more to the high end of his value, which is why I suggested an overpay would be 4/100+. If you can get him away, he would be better than Hart.

If it's a Claxton-type you want, why not just trade for Poeltl. The 2 are probably the most similar centers that I've ever seen, with Poeltl being 2+" taller, 30 lbs heavier, slightly better passer and a hair more efficient; Claxton is of course 3 years younger, and a slightly better rim protector and has some room to grow. They are basically the same player with the exception that Poeltl is most likely available..

They don’t sound too similar with this breakdown.

But I would consider him once Hartenstein and Claxton refuse to sign.. Always take the free agent before paying for a player if they are comparable, right?..

I just think Toronto will have a very high valuation for him, due to the need they have for him… Even if they draft Sarr, they might want to wait til midseason to trade Poeltl *unless it’s a great deal* type situation.. If Toronto’s pick conveys to San Antonio, maybe their plan changes a bit..

They're very similar, what that breakdown shows is Poeltl is the slightly better overall center, as he brings superior passing to Claxton; and Claxton is a slightly better rim protector. Everything else is so close, even how their usage breakdown.

As for Poeltl, he's on record of not wanting to stay in a rebuilding situation - he had his fill on the Spurs. On the Raptors part, they're on record wanting to see how Barnes plays with a stretch 5 - which is why they extended Oly. Really just a matter a time before he's traded and if the Raptors draft Sarr (and I'm not sold on him), then Oly makes far more sense for continuity of style. Besides, I don't think Poeltl will be very expensive, defensive centers without range are not the desired future.

[drosestruts]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

[Colbinii]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

To acquire Mitchell they will need to include Wagner, and I would love for Orlando to make a move like that.

[drosestruts]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

To acquire Mitchell they will need to include Wagner, and I would love for Orlando to make a move like that.

From my point of view they have enough cap space to absorb Mitchell and all their own 1sts plus the 2025 Denver first.

Unless you think Cleveland is more interested in getting an actual player back and not picks - which may be the case if Mitchell requests out. Very speculative right now to even really discuss him.

[orlando_joe]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

To acquire Mitchell they will need to include Wagner, and I would love for Orlando to make a move like that.

From my point of view they have enough cap space to absorb Mitchell and all their own 1sts plus the 2025 Denver first.

Unless you think Cleveland is more interested in getting an actual player back and not picks - which may be the case if Mitchell requests out. Very speculative right now to even really discuss him.

without him saying he will sign extension never happen...and why would he...such a non starter for magic

[BlazersBroncos]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

To acquire Mitchell they will need to include Wagner, and I would love for Orlando to make a move like that.

From my point of view they have enough cap space to absorb Mitchell and all their own 1sts plus the 2025 Denver first.

Unless you think Cleveland is more interested in getting an actual player back and not picks - which may be the case if Mitchell requests out. Very speculative right now to even really discuss him.

With Garland, Mobley and Allen still around I highly suspect that CLE wont target a pick package in a Donovan deal. They will want some talent back, and likely still get a pick or two.

Franz, Anthony, Houstan and 2 FRP would be about the price (Assuming Mitchell intends on signing an extension).

I think ORL should look to build around Franz and Paolo though. Aim a tier below and bet on 'your guys' improving. They have assets and cap space. They can build around the core guys.

I still come back to this offseason -

WCJ + Howard + 25 DEN FRP for Simons (Howard included partially to open up more cap space)

Sign Trey Jones and Isaiah Hartenstein. Draft Tristan da Silva #18. Move Cole Anthony for some SRP. Resign Harris

PO Rotation

G - Anfernee Simons (20) / Tre Jones (28)
G - Jalen Suggs (30) / Anfernee Simons (12) / Gary Harris (6)
F - Franz Wagner (32) / Tristan da Silva (16)
F - Paolo Banchero (34) / Jonathan Isaac (14)
C - Isaiah Hartenstein (26) / Mo Wagner (16) / Jonathan Isaac (6)

[tiderulz]

To acquire Mitchell they will need to include Wagner, and I would love for Orlando to make a move like that.

From my point of view they have enough cap space to absorb Mitchell and all their own 1sts plus the 2025 Denver first.

Unless you think Cleveland is more interested in getting an actual player back and not picks - which may be the case if Mitchell requests out. Very speculative right now to even really discuss him.

With Garland, Mobley and Allen still around I highly suspect that CLE wont target a pick package in a Donovan deal. They will want some talent back, and likely still get a pick or two.

Franz, Anthony, Houstan and 2 FRP would be about the price (Assuming Mitchell intends on signing an extension).

I think ORL should look to build around Franz and Paolo though. Aim a tier below and bet on 'your guys' improving. They have assets and cap space. They can build around the core guys.

I still come back to this offseason -

WCJ + Howard + 25 DEN FRP for Simons (Howard included partially to open up more cap space)

Sign Trey Jones and Isaiah Hartenstein. Draft Tristan da Silva #18. Move Cole Anthony for some SRP. Resign Harris

PO Rotation

G - Anfernee Simons (20) / Tre Jones (28)
G - Jalen Suggs (30) / Anfernee Simons (12) / Gary Harris (6)
F - Franz Wagner (32) / Tristan da Silva (16)
F - Paolo Banchero (34) / Jonathan Isaac (14)
C - Isaiah Hartenstein (26) / Mo Wagner (16) / Jonathan Isaac (6)

thats a good rotation. I have been looking at Da Silva as that SF/PF that we could use. And if not Hartenstein, maybe Claxton.

[Residual-Heat]

To acquire Mitchell they will need to include Wagner, and I would love for Orlando to make a move like that.

From my point of view they have enough cap space to absorb Mitchell and all their own 1sts plus the 2025 Denver first.

Unless you think Cleveland is more interested in getting an actual player back and not picks - which may be the case if Mitchell requests out. Very speculative right now to even really discuss him.

With Garland, Mobley and Allen still around I highly suspect that CLE wont target a pick package in a Donovan deal. They will want some talent back, and likely still get a pick or two.

Franz, Anthony, Houstan and 2 FRP would be about the price (Assuming Mitchell intends on signing an extension).

I think ORL should look to build around Franz and Paolo though. Aim a tier below and bet on 'your guys' improving. They have assets and cap space. They can build around the core guys.

I still come back to this offseason -

WCJ + Howard + 25 DEN FRP for Simons (Howard included partially to open up more cap space)

Sign Trey Jones and Isaiah Hartenstein. Draft Tristan da Silva #18. Move Cole Anthony for some SRP. Resign Harris

PO Rotation

G - Anfernee Simons (20) / Tre Jones (28)
G - Jalen Suggs (30) / Anfernee Simons (12) / Gary Harris (6)
F - Franz Wagner (32) / Tristan da Silva (16)
F - Paolo Banchero (34) / Jonathan Isaac (14)
C - Isaiah Hartenstein (26) / Mo Wagner (16) / Jonathan Isaac (6)

Why are the Magic giving up a solid starter, a recent lottery pick and a 1st for Simons? How many other teams in the NBA are willing to offer this much for him? We know Simons will most likely be traded this season. What teams do you see making an offer, and what do those offers look like?

I've said this before but Id rather just sign Monk over trading for Simons, but lets say Monk doesnt want to come to Orlando.. Best id offer for Simons is something like Cole, #18 and one of the Denver/Magic pick 2025 (lottery protected)

[QMemphis]

Rather just go make OG a huge offer and either steal him from NY or make them blow up their capspace.

A line up of Suggs, OG, Franz, PB, JI would be so fun to watch.. First team to 85 wins.

That team is so offensively limited and would be paying Paolo the max, Franz the max, Suggs 20+ and OG 30+ plus million. Top out as a 45 win team.

[eyriq]

Great ideas here.

I agree that Orlando needs to improve the guard rotation and upgrade center.

Claxton could be the top priority.

For the guard rotation, Orlando has just used two lotto picks on AB and Jett. Start AB.

[NotACat]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

Do you think the Bulls would make Lonzo available? The Magic FO have shown that they have some patience when it comes to rehabilitating players and a healthy Lonzo would fit perfectly with the Magic

[Knightro]

This offseason is a particularly fascinating one for the Magic because of how many different directions they could go.

They could look to acquire a higher end lead guard via trade like a Trae Young or Dejounte Murray.

They could look to acquire a lead guard in free agency like a Malik Monk (if they think he can play PG) or D'Angelo Russell or Tyus Jones.

Or they could go a different route and instead of chasing a lead guard, they could continue to let Paolo and Franz assume the lion's share of the playmaking and facilitating duties in the halfcourt and instead look to improve shooting.

In that scenario they could pursue guys like Klay Thompson or Gary Trent Jr. or Buddy Hield in free agency, or look to swing a deal for a guy like Anfernee Simons.

They could also leverage their free agency dollars towards a center like Nic Claxton or Isaiah Hartenstein and then turn around and flip Wendell Carter for a guard.

There's a lot of different directions and paths they could pursue.

[tiderulz]

Great ideas here.

I agree that Orlando needs to improve the guard rotation and upgrade center.

Claxton could be the top priority.

For the guard rotation, Orlando has just used two lotto picks on AB and Jett. Start AB.

they did for part of the season, he isnt even close to being ready and didnt show great PG skills

[tiderulz]

I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

Do you think the Bulls would make Lonzo available? The Magic FO have shown that they have some patience when it comes to rehabilitating players and a healthy Lonzo would fit perfectly with the Magic

what is a healthy Ball. i dont think I have seen that in the NBA