Heat-Sixers

[DowJones]

It's not a straight Jimmy for Mitchell trade. It's a Tobias Harris and pick for Jimmy

No it isn’t. It is Jimmy and maybe 1 first for Mitchell. You are trying to use the Cavs to make this Butler to Philadelphia deal appetizing. If you want to trade Jimmy to Philadelphia, go ahead and do it. Just leave the Cavs out. If Mitchell becomes available, then circle back to Cleveland and talk about Tyler Herro, JJJ, and multiple unprotected first round picks.

I'm literally talking about a trade proposed here in this thread. Of course that make the trade more palatable. Nothing about the Philadelphia deal appeals to me. I'm on record saying that what they're offering is light.

Why the hell shouldn't we be allowed to explore expanding the trade to make it more palatable? What the hell? You may not want to admit it's a possibility that Mitchell will want out, and he may not, but coming up with a reasonable deal that might satisfy all parties under bad circumstances shouldn't be considered verboten.

If you want JJJ included we can discuss it. I'm not saying you'll get him but it's at least worth talking about. Herro? Sure, we'll keep Harris and send you Herro. If we're trading Butler for Harris, we're owed multiple first round picks so forwarding them to you isn't a problem. Since most people consider ours worthless you'll probably prefer the ones we get from Philly. No problem on my end.

Stop it. I have posted in dozens of "Mitchell for xxx" threads over the last 6 months. I have been very comfortable with the idea of him refusing to extend. I have posted on deals I would like from LA, Brooklyn, Houston, and Miami. My dismissal of what is proposed in this thread has nothing to do with me refusing to believe that Mitchell won't extend.

The only thing that Philly has that really interests me is the unprotected 2028 Clipper first. If Miami can get that, then maybe something like this works...

-Herro
-JJJ
-Draft rights to the player Miami takes at 15
-2028 Unprotected Clippers 1st

That is probably the lowest I would go as a Cavs fan, and I still think Brooklyn could beat that. Houston as well, if Mitchell is open to playing for the Rockets. I do like this more than the Laker package of Reaves/Rui/2029 unprotected 1st/2031 unprotected 1st.

[R-DAWG]

No.

As valuable as space is, you're a pick short here. And likely two picks short tbh. This is a weak draft. I don't see the need to double down on it and make that the centerpiece of the Butler trade.

This kind of trade isn't necessarily about short term cap space, rather it's an organizational reset, closing the door on the Jimmy Butler era and starting a rebuild/retool around Bam. We can debate why Miami would or wouldn't do it, but let's look at the why you would category:

1) you acknowledge that 2024-2025 is a gap year where your in the lottery, which works nicely given the pick you owe is lottery protected.
2) Miami would have a payroll of $112,934,668 for 5 players (Bam, Herro, Rozier, Jovic, Jacquez) if they elect for the partial guarantee of Duncan Robinson. Robinson is essentially a $20MM expiring and Rozier is a $26MM expiring, so not hard to see Miami getting off of both those guys and becoming a cap space team - maybe recouping the 1st rd pick (maybe with different protections) that they gave up for Rozier
3) Recoup draft capital to make a big swing down the road

So essentially your looking at rebuilding around Bam/Herro/Lotto Pick with Jacquez, Jovic, 2024 1st on the roster. Round numbers your talking between $60-65MM in cap space in the summer of 2025. You can make the argument that this is a clear path to a championship than running it back.

But as I have said in other posts - assuming the Heat and Jimmy are on the same page, I think this team deserves the opportunity to run it back.

[R-DAWG]

No it isn’t. It is Jimmy and maybe 1 first for Mitchell. You are trying to use the Cavs to make this Butler to Philadelphia deal appetizing. If you want to trade Jimmy to Philadelphia, go ahead and do it. Just leave the Cavs out. If Mitchell becomes available, then circle back to Cleveland and talk about Tyler Herro, JJJ, and multiple unprotected first round picks.

I'm literally talking about a trade proposed here in this thread. Of course that make the trade more palatable. Nothing about the Philadelphia deal appeals to me. I'm on record saying that what they're offering is light.

Why the hell shouldn't we be allowed to explore expanding the trade to make it more palatable? What the hell? You may not want to admit it's a possibility that Mitchell will want out, and he may not, but coming up with a reasonable deal that might satisfy all parties under bad circumstances shouldn't be considered verboten.

If you want JJJ included we can discuss it. I'm not saying you'll get him but it's at least worth talking about. Herro? Sure, we'll keep Harris and send you Herro. If we're trading Butler for Harris, we're owed multiple first round picks so forwarding them to you isn't a problem. Since most people consider ours worthless you'll probably prefer the ones we get from Philly. No problem on my end.

Stop it. I have posted in dozens of "Mitchell for xxx" threads over the last 6 months. I have been very comfortable with the idea of him refusing to extend. I have posted on deals I would like from LA, Brooklyn, Houston, and Miami. My dismissal of what is proposed in this thread has nothing to do with me refusing to believe that Mitchell won't extend.

The only thing that Philly has that really interests me is the unprotected 2028 Clipper first. If Miami can get that, then maybe something like this works...

-Herro
-JJJ
-Draft rights to the player Miami takes at 15
-2028 Unprotected Clippers 1st

That is probably the lowest I would go as a Cavs fan, and I still think Brooklyn could beat that. Houston as well, if Mitchell is open to playing for the Rockets. I do like this more than the Laker package of Reaves/Rui/2029 unprotected 1st/2031 unprotected 1st.

I'm not sure I see the value in swapping Jimmy for Mitchell. Sure, he's younger, but i'd prefer using future picks to team Jimmy and Mitchell with Bam. If you do a Jimmy for Mitchell swap, your then just looking to throw future picks for a 3rd star.

Herro, rights to pick #15, unprotected picks in 29 + 31 should be enough to land Mitchell.

Heat run it back with Rozier-Mitchell-Jimmy-Jovic-Bam and a bench of JJJ-Robinson-Martin-Love and whatever else they find in the margins.

That team has a chance to win a title. Solves their biggest issue of not having enough shot creation in the playoffs and gives them the ability to load manage Jimmy.

[greg4012]

Miami needs to send picks to CLE. They’re not getting Mitchell straight up for Butler.

Unless Mitchell extends, yeah we are.

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

[Skybox]

This looks really good for MIA...assuming Butler is in a wheelchair. Otherwise, Riley punches Morey in the face for even calling.

[greg4012]

No it isn’t. It is Jimmy and maybe 1 first for Mitchell. You are trying to use the Cavs to make this Butler to Philadelphia deal appetizing. If you want to trade Jimmy to Philadelphia, go ahead and do it. Just leave the Cavs out. If Mitchell becomes available, then circle back to Cleveland and talk about Tyler Herro, JJJ, and multiple unprotected first round picks.

I'm literally talking about a trade proposed here in this thread. Of course that make the trade more palatable. Nothing about the Philadelphia deal appeals to me. I'm on record saying that what they're offering is light.

Why the hell shouldn't we be allowed to explore expanding the trade to make it more palatable? What the hell? You may not want to admit it's a possibility that Mitchell will want out, and he may not, but coming up with a reasonable deal that might satisfy all parties under bad circumstances shouldn't be considered verboten.

If you want JJJ included we can discuss it. I'm not saying you'll get him but it's at least worth talking about. Herro? Sure, we'll keep Harris and send you Herro. If we're trading Butler for Harris, we're owed multiple first round picks so forwarding them to you isn't a problem. Since most people consider ours worthless you'll probably prefer the ones we get from Philly. No problem on my end.

Stop it. I have posted in dozens of "Mitchell for xxx" threads over the last 6 months. I have been very comfortable with the idea of him refusing to extend. I have posted on deals I would like from LA, Brooklyn, Houston, and Miami. My dismissal of what is proposed in this thread has nothing to do with me refusing to believe that Mitchell won't extend.

The only thing that Philly has that really interests me is the unprotected 2028 Clipper first. If Miami can get that, then maybe something like this works...

-Herro
-JJJ
-Draft rights to the player Miami takes at 15
-2028 Unprotected Clippers 1st

That is probably the lowest I would go as a Cavs fan, and I still think Brooklyn could beat that. Houston as well, if Mitchell is open to playing for the Rockets. I do like this more than the Laker package of Reaves/Rui/2029 unprotected 1st/2031 unprotected 1st.

So the lowest you would go is the largest haul ever traded for an expiring contract. Makes sense

[jbk1234]

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

It's not a straight Jimmy for Mitchell trade. It's a Tobias Harris and pick for Jimmy

No it isn’t. It is Jimmy and maybe 1 first for Mitchell. You are trying to use the Cavs to make this Butler to Philadelphia deal appetizing. If you want to trade Jimmy to Philadelphia, go ahead and do it. Just leave the Cavs out. If Mitchell becomes available, then circle back to Cleveland and talk about Tyler Herro, JJJ, and multiple unprotected first round picks.

I know you would take back Herro as salary filler, but I'd be shocked if the Cavs would. He's not an asset on that contract. It would really change my entire opinion of Altman if he made a trade where we took back a guy making $30M who wouldn't even start for us in a trade for a top-5 SG.

Also, I don't see how JJJ could play with Allen and Mobley and I don't see how playing him at the 4 with one of Allen or Mobley is better than Allen and Mobley. JJJ can't presently shoot.

The one Heat asset that intrigues me and woukd be useful on this roster is Jovic and he's not in the trade. If this is the return, I'm waiting until next summer and just engaging in a S&T for Jovic and a first.

[jbk1234]

Unless Mitchell extends, yeah we are.

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Not if the Heat are trading Bulter. I have no idea where the idea comes from that Mitchell is going to want to go play for a Heat team that no longer has Butler. Everyone just got a good, hard look as to how good that team is against the Celtics.

[R-DAWG]

Unless Mitchell extends, yeah we are.

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Sure the Nets can do better but will they. Mitchell likely will resign there and there is enough in the kitty to hold onto Bridges, Cam Johnson and Claxton.

Let's assume Brooklyn offers Dorin-Finey Smith, Schroeder's expiring contract and 4 unprotected 1sts (PHX 25/27/29 and DAL 29). What does that leave Brooklyn with? Simmons contract, a protected future Philly pick and Brooklyn's own picks in 28 and 30 to round out the roster? So i think that's a hard pill to swallow. So then if it's DFS plus 3 picks is Miami's offer of Herro and 3 picks not at least as good?

[jbk1234]

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Sure the Nets can do better but will they. Mitchell likely will resign there and there is enough in the kitty to hold onto Bridges, Cam Johnson and Claxton.

Let's assume Brooklyn offers Dorin-Finey Smith, Schroeder's expiring contract and 4 unprotected 1sts (PHX 25/27/29 and DAL 29). What does that leave Brooklyn with? Simmons contract, a protected future Philly pick and Brooklyn's own picks in 28 and 30 to round out the roster? So i think that's a hard pill to swallow. So then if it's DFS plus 3 picks is Miami's offer of Herro and 3 picks not at least as good?

No it's not just as good and it's not particularly close either. The Suns picks are all unprotected and way more valuable than whatever picks the Heat are trading. I don't have Herro as an asset on his contract. He'd have to go to a third team.

DFS is definitely an asset on his contract and I'd be fine taking him back. Even Schroder as an expiring could plug in as a backup PG. He would fill a need and could also be combined with an expiring LeVert and one or two of the newly acquired picks to get players who actually fit the Cavs.

[DowJones]

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Sure the Nets can do better but will they. Mitchell likely will resign there and there is enough in the kitty to hold onto Bridges, Cam Johnson and Claxton.

Let's assume Brooklyn offers Dorin-Finey Smith, Schroeder's expiring contract and 4 unprotected 1sts (PHX 25/27/29 and DAL 29). What does that leave Brooklyn with? Simmons contract, a protected future Philly pick and Brooklyn's own picks in 28 and 30 to round out the roster? So i think that's a hard pill to swallow. So then if it's DFS plus 3 picks is Miami's offer of Herro and 3 picks not at least as good?

Cam Johnson/DFS/2027 PHX first/2029 Phx first trumps Herro plus a few unprotected future Heat picks. Now if Brooklyn isn't willing to put those PHX first rounders on the table, that is a different story.

[greg4012]

No. You won't.

Nets can offer a better deal than Jimmy and his soon to be 50M dollar contract. Plus, it's in NYC where he wants to play. Jimmy is far too old to expect this wild return.

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Not if the Heat are trading Bulter. I have no idea where the idea comes from that Mitchell is going to want to go play for a Heat team that no longer has Butler. Everyone just got a good, hard look as to how good that team is against the Celtics.

Miami was missing 2 starters for the entire series and had a completely hurt and obsolete version of Duncan Robinson (best shooter and 4th highest scorer for the season). Let's be real.

Essentially 2 rookies started the whole series and Miami had different starting lineups throughout as other replacement guys like Delon Wright and Jaime were lost during the series too.

If you're keeping track, that means Miami played this series without the following:

- Jimmy Butler (their #1 player)
- Terry Rozier (their #2/3 scorer and starting PG
- Josh Richardson (the backup PG)
- Lost Jaime Jaquez for the last 2 games of the series (the backup for Butler)
- Lost Delon Wright for the last game of the series (the backup for the backup PG)
- Duncan Robinson was playing at about 60%

Coaching and organizational structure might be somethings Mitchell values. But, maybe that's just me.

[Slim Charless]

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Sure the Nets can do better but will they. Mitchell likely will resign there and there is enough in the kitty to hold onto Bridges, Cam Johnson and Claxton.

Let's assume Brooklyn offers Dorin-Finey Smith, Schroeder's expiring contract and 4 unprotected 1sts (PHX 25/27/29 and DAL 29). What does that leave Brooklyn with? Simmons contract, a protected future Philly pick and Brooklyn's own picks in 28 and 30 to round out the roster? So i think that's a hard pill to swallow. So then if it's DFS plus 3 picks is Miami's offer of Herro and 3 picks not at least as good?

Cam Johnson/DFS/2027 PHX first/2029 Phx first trumps Herro plus a few unprotected future Heat picks. Now if Brooklyn isn't willing to put those PHX first rounders on the table, that is a different story.

I think the deal is CamJo with all of our picks they have. Suns picks so mean more to the Cavs owner. He and our owner hate each other. Getting a stake in the Suns sucking would mean alot to Dan Gilbert. A lot more than what this Heat fan is in here peddling to everybody.

Should leave the Nets with Mitchell and Mikal along with whatever they can get. Not terribly bad I guess.

[jbk1234]

You seem more confident than me that Mitchell would want to go to BKN. He’d be downgrading his team and ability to compete

Not if the Heat are trading Bulter. I have no idea where the idea comes from that Mitchell is going to want to go play for a Heat team that no longer has Butler. Everyone just got a good, hard look as to how good that team is against the Celtics.

Miami was missing 2 starters for the entire series and had a completely hurt and obsolete version of Duncan Robinson (best shooter and 4th highest scorer for the season). Let's be real.

Essentially 2 rookies started the whole series and Miami had different starting lineups throughout as other replacement guys like Delon Wright and Jaime were lost during the series too.

Coaching and organizational structure might be somethings Mitchell values. But, maybe that's just me.

It took the Celtics a couple games to figure out Miami’s zone and then it was all over but the crying. Heat culture alone got them run out of the gym. One of the starters who Miami was missing is the same starter who the Heat are trading in this scenario (and likely the player Mitchell most wants to play with). The other starter is Rozier who is pretty redundant with Mitchell and less of a fit in the same back court than Garland.

[greg4012]

Not if the Heat are trading Bulter. I have no idea where the idea comes from that Mitchell is going to want to go play for a Heat team that no longer has Butler. Everyone just got a good, hard look as to how good that team is against the Celtics.

Miami was missing 2 starters for the entire series and had a completely hurt and obsolete version of Duncan Robinson (best shooter and 4th highest scorer for the season). Let's be real.

Essentially 2 rookies started the whole series and Miami had different starting lineups throughout as other replacement guys like Delon Wright and Jaime were lost during the series too.

Coaching and organizational structure might be somethings Mitchell values. But, maybe that's just me.

It took the Celtics a couple games to figure out Miami’s zone and then it was all over but the crying. Heat culture alone got them run out of the gym. One of the starters who Miami was missing is the same starter who the Heat are trading in this scenario (and likely the player Mitchell most wants to play with). The other starter is Rozier who is pretty redundant with Mitchell and less of a fit in the same back court than Garland.

Bam was not missing.

Miami wasn't running the zone the majority of the series.

You seem to stuck in narratives and trying to live in candyland.

What's the precedent for expiring allstar player netting the sort of package youre lusting for? This is the reality when leverage shifts away from the controlling team.

Any scenario where Miami is keeping Rozier has him as 6th man.

I'm sorry for your impending loss, but it's not gonna net you all that you dream of. Get nasty if you want. Sometimes I like that

[BK_2020]

Anthony Davis was traded for 4th overall, Ingram, Lonzo, plus three extra FRPs/swaps. He had 1 year left on his deal at the time.

[jbk1234]

Miami was missing 2 starters for the entire series and had a completely hurt and obsolete version of Duncan Robinson (best shooter and 4th highest scorer for the season). Let's be real.

Essentially 2 rookies started the whole series and Miami had different starting lineups throughout as other replacement guys like Delon Wright and Jaime were lost during the series too.

Coaching and organizational structure might be somethings Mitchell values. But, maybe that's just me.

It took the Celtics a couple games to figure out Miami’s zone and then it was all over but the crying. Heat culture alone got them run out of the gym. One of the starters who Miami was missing is the same starter who the Heat are trading in this scenario (and likely the player Mitchell most wants to play with). The other starter is Rozier who is pretty redundant with Mitchell and less of a fit in the same back court than Garland.

Bam was not missing.

Miami wasn't running the zone the majority of the series.

You seem to stuck in narratives and trying to live in candyland.

What's the precedent for expiring allstar player netting the sort of package youre lusting for? This is the reality when leverage shifts away from the controlling team.

Any scenario where Miami is keeping Rozier has him as 6th man.

I'm sorry for your impending loss, but it's not gonna net you all that you dream of. Get nasty if you want. Sometimes I like that

I see, so of the two starters who were missing, which is your excuse for how the rest of the team performed in that series, one of them is getting traded and the other is moving to the bench.

I find the premise that Mitchell would want to be traded to a Miami team that no longer had Butler to be deeply flawed. If you don't, you don't.

[kriss73]

Imagine burning 3 1sts for the privilege of paying Butler $50m+ for 3 years at age 35. No thanks.

Miami got him for Josh freaking Richardson, and that's about all I'd pay for him now when he's about to fall off the cliff.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but times change and so did the price you pay for a star player. If Philly wants him, we won't be giving him away at discount prices...

Well, no team has ever decided where to trade Jimmy.
He decided where to go, and the price was consequently.

[Hoops23]

Imagine burning 3 1sts for the privilege of paying Butler $50m+ for 3 years at age 35. No thanks.

Miami got him for Josh freaking Richardson, and that's about all I'd pay for him now when he's about to fall off the cliff.

Why not if thats the price to get a ring!
If your draft picks can get you a ring or closer to a championship, then you’re right

Well, no team has ever decided where to trade Jimmy.
He decided where to go, and the price was consequently.

I remember when he was with the Twolves, he wants to go to Miami but was traded to the Sixers instead.

This time, I think he will tell Riley at least two teams where he wants to go, or maybe 4.
I got Philly 1st coz of his friendship with Embiid, NYK coz of Thibs.
Who knows if he will mention Chicago or Houston.

But thing is for sure, there will be a market for Jimmy

[PhillyNj]

Imagine burning 3 1sts for the privilege of paying Butler $50m+ for 3 years at age 35. No thanks.

Miami got him for Josh freaking Richardson, and that's about all I'd pay for him now when he's about to fall off the cliff.

Why not if thats the price to get a ring!
If your draft picks can get you a ring or closer to a championship, then you’re right

Well, no team has ever decided where to trade Jimmy.
He decided where to go, and the price was consequently.

I remember when he was with the Twolves, he wants to go to Miami but was traded to the Sixers instead.

This time, I think he will tell Riley at least two teams where he wants to go, or maybe 4.
I got Philly 1st coz of his friendship with Embiid, NYK coz of Thibs.
Who knows if he will mention Chicago or Houston.

But thing is for sure, there will be a market for Jimmy

I seriously doubt this. Butler will dictate where he goes. Miami won’t get anything of value, which is fair since they gave up nothing to get him.
The bigger problem here is Butler will want a guarantee of a max extension,which he does not deserve!