DAL/LAC

[The Sixth Man]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Mavericks trade: Josh Howard
Mavericks receive: Al Thornton, Tim Thomas, DeAndre Jordan

Clippers trade: Al Thornton, Tim Thomas, DeAndre Jordan
Clippers receive: Josh Howard

Please note that Eric Gordon could take Thornton's place in the trade, as well.

Now, I'm not sure exactly what either team's plans are, so I don't know if either side would like this deal, but I think it could be fair.

The Clippers put together a very good starting 5 of Davis/Mobley/Howard/Camby/Kaman. The Mavericks start to rebuild.

[ecuhus1981]

The Mavericks would be tempted by the potential of both Thornton and Jordan, especially in the wake of JoHo's PR disaster of a summer. But honestly, is this top-dollar value for a 20/7 guy? I don't think Dallas has the luxury of quibbling about that now, though; a chance to cash in while returning a SF who may work better between Kidd and Nowitzki might be too tempting to pass.

Anyway, LAC fans would have nightmares about a deal such as this. They expect Al to BE Josh Howard (or better, if you ask them! ) in two years, and Deandre is a low-risk, high-reward bigman with elite physical attributes that you just can't teach. It doesn't make them much better at all now, and they toss their future out the window.

[The Sixth Man]

The Mavericks would be tempted by the potential of both Thornton and Jordan, especially in the wake of JoHo's PR disaster of a summer. But honestly, is this top-dollar value for a 20/7 guy? I don't think Dallas has the luxury of quibbling about that now, though; a chance to cash in while returning a SF who may work better between Kidd and Nowitzki might be too tempting to pass.

Anyway, LAC fans would have nightmares about a deal such as this. They expect Al to BE Josh Howard (or better, if you ask them! ) in two years, and Deandre is a low-risk, high-reward bigman with elite physical attributes that you just can't teach. It doesn't make them much better at all now, and they toss their future out the window.

Fair enough. The thing I don't understand, though, is the bolded part. The only change in their starting lineup would be Howard for Thornton. You don't think that's an upgrade (at least for now)?

[sipclip]

As clip fans we don't think it's an upgrade. Thornton will put up around 20pts and 7rbs a game this year with none of the off the court hassle that comes with Howard. Thomas is also a valuable piece for us since we will be playing more uptempo this season and need his athletic ability and shooting at the 4. The trade also bites into our plan to have max caproom for two free agents in the summer of 2010.

[Teddy KGB]

1) Thornton is nowhere near the player JHo is.
2) Thomas is trash.
3) JHo has a TO for the 2010-11 season

With that said, Dallas is not going to do this.

[sipclip]

Defensively Thornton has a long ways to go to be close to Howard but on the offensive end he is a beast. He showed us last year after the all star break that he has the ability to takeover games on the offensive end and carry us to some wins. You can pretty much guarantee that with him now the starting sf he will average around 20pts and 7rbs for us this season.

Thomas is certainly not trash. He obviously never lived up to his talent level but he's going to be extremely valuable to us as a backup pf that can stretch the floor and run with Baron.

Howard may have a team option for 2010 but that really doesn't change the cap issue because with Thornton we would have him and the caproom instead of having to release Howard to gain the caproom.

[JD45]

I think it is a fair deal in terms of value.

But the Mavs can't really rebuild as they don't have a 2010 draft pick. So I think they give it two more years, then trade Dirk and anybody else for youth.

[ecuhus1981]

Fair enough. The thing I don't understand, though, is the bolded part. The only change in their starting lineup would be Howard for Thornton. You don't think that's an upgrade (at least for now)?

IMO, there are some upgrades that just don't yield much.

You only have so many shots to go around. Baron IS going to get his, and Kaman is a focal point in the offense. I doubt swapping Thornton for Howard is going to do much to change the SF's 3rd-option status in Dunleavy's offense. And even then, it's not as though Al or even Josh could hog every shot Chris and Baron don't take, not with Gordon making his presence felt early on, and Camby needed "touches" to keep him motivated.

Their lineup just isn't built for an upgrade at the SF to be necessary, and for what they pay, it's probably not worth it. Again, IMO.

[shrink]

I think it is a fair deal in terms of value.

But the Mavs can't really rebuild as they don't have a 2010 draft pick. So I think they give it two more years, then trade Dirk and anybody else for youth.

I think The Sixth Man's trade is fair as well, and I agree with JD's assessment. Right now the Mavs are invested in Jason Kidd and Dirk, and need to win-now. I could see this deal happening if an injury sent the Mav's down the tubes. Maybe even better would be to do this deal as a three-teamer, where LAC sends that package to a win-later team for a win-now guy. I wouldn't do it, but for example, sending that package to MIN, and sending Mike Miller to DAL.

[sipclip]

Sorry buddy but there is no way in hell the clips would do this deal. The clips love Thornton and would only trade him in a deal to get a bonafide superstar back. If you aren't offering a superstar then Thornton is untouchable.

[JES12]

Thornton will put up around 20pts and 7rbs a game this year.

While you are forecasting things, what's tomorrow’s chance's of rain...I plan on going fishing and don’t want to get caught in a storm.

Oh, and I need tonight’s lotto numbers as well

[TheNewEra]

Fair enough. The thing I don't understand, though, is the bolded part. The only change in their starting lineup would be Howard for Thornton. You don't think that's an upgrade (at least for now)?

IMO, there are some upgrades that just don't yield much.

You only have so many shots to go around. Baron IS going to get his, and Kaman is a focal point in the offense. I doubt swapping Thornton for Howard is going to do much to change the SF's 3rd-option status in Dunleavy's offense. And even then, it's not as though Al or even Josh could hog every shot Chris and Baron don't take, not with Gordon making his presence felt early on, and Camby needed "touches" to keep him motivated.

Their lineup just isn't built for an upgrade at the SF to be necessary, and for what they pay, it's probably not worth it. Again, IMO.

Have to 100% agree with you.

The big three concept with Diddy, J-Ho, and Camby would be overkill for this roster.

I'm very happy to have Thorton on our team but I don't believe he will average 20ppg, more like 15-18ppg. Like stated above everyone has to get their touches and factor in the bench points only time I see Thorton going off for 20+ is when someone is struggling.

EG won't really be to big on the team early most likely he will be worked in slow with, low mintues and big garbage mintues.

Thorton has the potential to be a great player like Howard but for right now we don't need the dominance of Howard we need the role playing ability in Thorton. Thorton will learn and know when to pick his spots and knows when to back off and let BD take over the game. It's building consistenticy in Thorton team game skills.


I wouldn't mind having Brandon Bass on the Clippers though. To solve our low-post offense issue off the bench.

[old rem]

As clip fans we don't think it's an upgrade. Thornton will put up around 20pts and 7rbs a game this year with none of the off the court hassle that comes with Howard. Thomas is also a valuable piece for us since we will be playing more uptempo this season and need his athletic ability and shooting at the 4. The trade also bites into our plan to have max caproom for two free agents in the summer of 2010.

No..he won't, but in 2 more years,maybe. Jordan,in spite of nice physical tools had minimal skill and was not showing the effort + learning curve to be regarded as "potential",but sometimes a guy wises up later and pays his dues. Thomas is generally seen as a bit of a negative,though here, Thornton being on a rookie deal partly offsets that.

Dallas? Live with it or accept that the reasons you look to trade him are why nobody else gives big value. In short....this is as good as it gets for the Mavs.

[Darren]

I don't like it at all. AI is not the player we should look at. WIthout Elton Brand, he still fails to make a name for himself. He'd never get closed to Josh Howard's level. Don't ever fool yourself again.

DeAndre Jordan is a Pavel Podkolzine like building block. But according to scouting report, he's not as coachable as Pavel. I don't think he's really bright future in the league.

Tim Thomas can score. But I don't like his contact-avoiding defense. No effort on defense at all. Think about it, Tim Thomas and Dirk on court together is unthinkable. I don't like the prospect as well.

After all, I give a 'F' for such trade.

[N.O.R.E.]

^An F?
Value-wise this is very good for Dallas, while I admit the fit isn't the best, you need to get off your high horse.