Offers for Mike Miller + Cardinal?

[Smooth32]

You'd pass on Mike Miller because of a 2nd round pick? My response to that would be "Too bad."

I kind of agree with you but you seem to forget what a 2nd round pick can get you these days. A 2nd round pick has gotten the Cavs players like Carlos Boozer, Jason Kapono, Daniel Gibson, etc.

The first round pick seems to much to give up for Mike Miller, to me. This team needs to starting adding more and more youth through the draft and I don't like the idea of giving up a first. I'm sorry.

I'd much rather take on more contracts then give up a 1st.

Something like Sasha Pavlovic, Wally Szczerbiak and 2nd round pick for Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and Mark Madsen works for me.

[Flash is the Future]

lol. Absorbing Madsen doesn't let you get rid of the 1st in the deal. That's the only reason Minny is on the phone. You just traded for Maurice Williams, and you currently lack viable options at SG as a Mo-West backcourt would be undersized. Mike Miller could potentially make you the best team in the East. Cleveland absolutely has to be a win-now team, as they've yet to win and validate their Front Office to Lebron. Miller would do much more for you guys now than that 1st would ever do. That trade might work for you, but it certainly doesn't work for the Wolves...

[Flash is the Future]

Cleveland wouldn't give up both picks. We'd like to keep at least one pick in this draft.

Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal works for both teams if the Wolves want to move Miller. If they don't, a second isn't going to change their minds.

You'd pass on Mike Miller because of a 2nd round pick? My response to that would be "Too bad."

I'm saying, first, if Minnesota doesn't want to move Miller, the addition of a second round pick isn't going to change their minds.

Second, if they DO want to trade Miller, getting rid of Cardinal and clearing cap room, I don't think they'd be that hung up over a second round pick, if they're already getting a first, especially in a draft where they'd stand to have what... 5 first rounders?

If a little more was needed, as you say, I offered the rights to Sasha Kaun, and the idea to include Madsen for Allred's unguaranteed contract is a good one too.

It's not that they want to trade Miller. It's that Cleveland wants to trade for Miller. And to do so, they need to put out a lucrative package, and if that means throwing in a 2nd rounder, so be it. If 2nd rounders don't change teams minds in trades, then how come they get traded so often? Because, when value slightly favors one team, that team tosses in a 2nd and calls it a day.

[shrink]

You'd pass on Mike Miller because of a 2nd round pick? My response to that would be "Too bad."

I kind of agree with you but you seem to forget what a 2nd round pick can get you these days. A 2nd round pick has gotten the Cavs players like Carlos Boozer, Jason Kapono, Daniel Gibson, etc.

I think if a team got to take all 30 second round picks, got to play them all, then they would have a guy like that. However, very few second rounders even become rotation players in the NBA, and even fewer become starters. Maybe 1-2 a year, so let's say a 2nd rounder gives you a 5% chance at getting a starter. Those low odds don't excite me, and personally, I'd take the cash (well, moving Madsen) over the 2nd.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that on these boards, we often over-value late firsts as well, and I think NBA history can demonstrate it. Lets estimate with Mike Miller on the Cavs, CLE has the sixth best record in the NBA, and gets the 25th pick. Here are the last 30 years worth of 25th picks:

1977 2.3 76ers Wilson Washington 6'9 227 Old Dominion 1955-08-03
1978 2.3 Hawks Rick Wilson 6'4 200 Louisville 1956-02-07
1979 2.3 Lakers Oliver Mack 6'3 185 East Carolina 1957-06-06
1980 2.2 Warriors Jeff Ruland 6'10 240 Iona 1958-12-16
1981 2.2 Celtics Tracy Jackson 6'6 205 Notre Dame 1959-04-21
1982 2.2 Bullets Bryan Warrick 6'5 195 St. Joseph's (PA) 1959-07-22
1983 2.1 Bulls Sidney Lowe 6'0 195 North Carolina State 1960-01-21
1984 2.1 Pacers Devin Durrant
1985 2.1 Trailblazers Mike Smrek 7'0 250 Canisius 1962-08-31
1986 2.1 Mavericks Mark Price 6'0 170 Georgia Tech 1964-02-15
1987 2.2 Knicks Ron Moore 7'0 260 West Virginia State 1962-01-16
1988 1.25 Lakers David Rivers 6'0 170 Notre Dame 1965-01-20
1989 1.25 Cavaliers John Morton 6'3 180 Seton Hall 1967-05-18
1990 1.25 Trailblazers Alaa Abdelnaby 6'10 240 Duke 1968-06-24
1991 1.25 Warriors Shaun Vandiver
1992 1.25 Clippers Elmore Spencer 7'0 270 UNLV 1969-12-06
1993 1.25 Bulls Corie Blount 6'9 240 Cincinnati 1969-01-04
1994 1.25 Clippers Greg Minor 6'6 210 Louisville 1971-09-18
1995 1.25 Magic David Vaughn 6'9 240 Memphis 1973-03-23
1996 1.25 Jazz Martin Muursepp 6'9 235 ? 1974-09-26
1997 1.25 Knicks John Thomas 6'9 265 1975-09-08
1998 1.25 Pacers Al Harrington 6'9 230 none 1980-02-17
1999 1.25 Heat Tim James 6'7 212 Miami (FL) 1976-12-26
2000 1.25 Suns Iakovos Tsakalidis 7'2 285 None 1979-06-10
2001 1.25 Kings Gerald Wallace 6'7 215 Alabama 1982-07-23
2002 1.25 Nuggets Frank Williams 6'3 205 Illinois 1980-02-25
2003 1.25 Pistons Carlos Delfino
2004 1.25 Celtics Tony Allen
2005 1.25 Supersonics Johan Petro
2006 1.25 Cavaliers Shannon Brown 6'4 205 Michigan State 1985-11-29
2007 1.25 Jazz Morris Almond 6'6 215 Rice 1985-02-02

Yes, its possible with the late 1st, that you might get Gerald Wallace or Mark Price, but the majority of these guys went on to NBA obscurity. I think on these boards we tend to over-value picks because they represent the cool, new, unknown, but they are routinely sold for $3 mil in cash, and I think that's a fair price tag. I always found it ironic that we call the first 14 guys in the draft "lottery picks," but its really all the rest of these picks that have the long odds of a lottery ticket.

Anyway, I think the 1st would be needed, because MIN really seems to like Mike Miller, and that would be a commodity MIN could trade to try to bring in someone else. The 2nd isn't as appealing as cash savings to me, and maybe the front office. MIN added two 2nd rounders in 2009 by trading the other MIA 2nd anyway.

[Smooth32]

That's nice and all, but you seem to forget that there are really good players that were picked after the 25th pick and thus available at the 25th pick. By just showing the 25th, doesn't do it justice.

[LiquidFire]

ok smooth, why dont yo want to include the 1st? mike miller easily puts us over the top, andprobably the favourite to win it in the east...

seriously.. wally + `1st for miller and cardinal. get it done. then we still have snow, av and pavs as valuable trading assets

[eyejayem]

I would do the Wally/1st/filler for Miller/Cardinal/Madsen and if it absolutely necessary for them to get the Chi 2nd, I believe the Cavs would be willing to drop back and take one of the two picks that Minn gets from Miami as long as it is not in the final 10.

And no matter how bad the picks are that may be all the difference to move up a couple of spots and take who you want by combining the picks. You cant combine it if you dont have it. That late pick may make the difference between losing that Miami mid lotto to move up and just losing a Cavs late 1st. Cavs had the 19th pick this year. With the juggernants in the West and the east improving it can be a late teen/early 20 again.

[SimonFish]

Larry Hughes, Aaron Gray and Cedric Simmons.

[LiquidFire]

Larry Hughes, Aaron Gray and Cedric Simmons.

i loled

[deeney0]

None of these tempt me to trade MM, even with Cardinal attached. There's no reason for the Wolves to make a move like that right now, at all. They're still in plenty fine shape for 2010 FA.

[pillwenney]

That's nice and all, but you seem to forget that there are really good players that were picked after the 25th pick and thus available at the 25th pick. By just showing the 25th, doesn't do it justice.

Doing that would assume that every time the Cavs are going to make the right pick. The fact of the matter is that the draft is generally a crap shoot. There's a reason that teams just sell late 1st rounders. Can you find productive players in the last first/early second round? Yes, but you probably won't. And you almost definitely will not find anybody that will be as productive as Mike Miller.

[LiquidFire]

THE CAVS WILL GIVE UP THE FIRST FOR MIKE MILLER

[bossman23]

mike miller would be the perfect fit but i doubt ferry would want to take cardinal's contract....but what about pav+Av+09second for mike miller?

[schaffy]

^ Why would the Wolves downgrade in talent and pay 2 two year contracts (the same as Miller)? The only trade that would work between the Cavs and Wolves would be one involving an expiring contract for Miller. That 09 2nd isnt a great incentive packaged with those 2 players.

[bossman23]

^ Why would the Wolves downgrade in talent and pay 2 two year contracts (the same as Miller)? The only trade that would work between the Cavs and Wolves would be one involving an expiring contract for Miller. That 09 2nd isnt a great incentive packaged with those 2 players.

ok you got a point...how about pav+west+09first for miller

[LiquidFire]

bossman, you have no idea what your talking about. west isnt going anywhere, he just got signed and why would minny want him? why would ferry trade our only backup center in AV? (dont even saying wright). if you didnt know cardinals contract is only 5 mill and year and expires before '10.

of course ferry would pull off that trade. it helps out team trmendously with mike miller at the 2

[bossman23]

bossman, you have no idea what your talking about. west isnt going anywhere, he just got signed and why would minny want him? why would ferry trade our only backup center in AV? (dont even saying wright). if you didnt know cardinals contract is only 5 mill and year and expires before '10.

of course ferry would pull off that trade. it helps out team trmendously with mike miller at the 2

i knew cardinal contract expires by 2010...i doubt ferry is making west untradable for the fact that he is an undersized to play the 2....having mo,boobie & west isn't going to cut it on the defensive end...why would we trade andy? he sucks(even though he has been rumored to be improving offensively),ferry & his agent(fegan) don't exactly get along & av has too much value in this leaque to just keep him...i'm not saying west & av will get traded but there is a good chance when the right deal comes around

[LiquidFire]

i dont care how you put it. AV is our only backup center. and apperently hes worked out hard this offseason. if we trade west we dont have a backup PG (boobie is a SG)

[midgman8421]

bossman's views are skewed. We would GLADLY take on Cardinal's contract. We're not shooting for cap room in '09, we're shooting for it in '10. Miller + Cardinal for Wally and a first would be something the Cavs don't even think twice about, imo.

Mo/Boobie/West
Miller/Sasha/Kinsey/Boobie/West
LeBron/Sasha/Kinsey/Cardinal
Ben/JJ/Darnell
Z/AV/Wright

That team right there is almost too deep. With Snow's expiring, and Sasha becoming VERY expendable, we could make a move for a PF if we needed to.

The only problem is, I don't think Minnesota is going to trade Miller.

[bossman23]

well i do have a feeling ferry will make another push for miller...he is just the perfect fit & would/should be easy to get...as we all know the t-wolves aren't going any where in the west...i am just keeping my fingers cross!