Eastern Promises: Toronto and Cleveland

ecuhus1981 · Post #1 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:39 am

JO for Snow/Varejao/Pavlovic

Cleveland adds another star around LeBron, while not affecting their 2010 capspace. Varejao doubles Wallace's role currently, while Sasha has lost his starting spot to Delonte.
Williams, West, James, O'neal, Ilgauskas
Gibson, Kinsey, Szczerbiak, Wallace, Wright

Toronto realizes that Jermaine and Chris are too similar to thrive together, and that Andrea is ready for his starting C spot. Pavs and Anderson provide the Raptors' anemic bench a MAJOR boost.
Calderon, Parker, Moon, Bosh, Bargnani
Ukic, Pavlovic, Kapono, Humphries, Varejao

JN · Post #2 » by JN » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:51 am

Let's give Bargnani 20 games before jumping to any conclusions..... and any Raps trade they must give out more salary then they take in (may or may not be here) because they are $1,100 under the Luxury Tax.

The Raps might also consider using O'Neil as an expiring contract next year, instead of following the lead of everybody else clearing cap space.

bcortell · Post #3 » by **bcortell** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:56 am

Wouldn't do it from Cavs POV. It just makes us too old.. and if andy continues to progress like he has thus far throughout the season and into next year he will earn his money and become our starting center, most likely. Jermaine, IMO, has produced less than what is expected of him (I do expect him to increase though), while Andy is improving his game. looks like Andy is improving while JO is declining. No thanks.

Roger Murdock · Post #4 » by **Roger Murdock** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:02 am

Jermaine oneil is one of the worst contracts in the NBA. He sucks, and everyone was trying to convince themselves otherwise for no reason.

omeloon · Post #5 » by **omeloon** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:41 am

I like it for Toronto. Not because it makes us better (which it probably doesn't), but because of what it does for us financially while getting us younger. I'd consider throwing in Jamario Moon, but I don;t think the Cavs really need him.

Bosh, Varejao, Bargnani, and Humphries has quite a bit of potential as a front court. We can go into next season with that rotation, Kapono, Pavlovic, Calderon, Ukic, 2009 1t, and approx. $6-8 mill in cap space - unless I'm miscalculating.

JO is better than Varejao, and I'm guessing LeBron will be able to use him better than Calderon has. Cavs are gunning for a title, and this very well could help them get there. They do sacrifice some of their future, but would probably be worth it

ecuhus1981 · Post #6 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:47 am

JN wrote:Let's give Bargnani 20 games before jumping to any conclusions..... and any Raps trade they must give out more salary then they take in (may or may not be here) because they are $1,100 under the Luxury Tax.

The Raps might also consider using O'Neil as an expiring contract next year, instead of following the lead of everybody else clearing cap space.

20 games is fair. IF he keeps up this pace, though, Colangelo would be a fool not to consider an option such as this. And you DO save capspace in this deal (almost $4mil), if you had bothered to look. Add in the impending reitrment or buyout of Snow, and it would be even more immediate cap savings.

bcortell wrote:Wouldn't do it from Cavs POV. It just makes us too old.. and if andy continues to progress like he has thus far throughout the season and into next year he will earn his money and become our starting center, most likely. Jermaine, IMO, has produced less than what is expected of him (I do expect him to increase though), while Andy is improving his game. looks like Andy is improving while JO is declining. No thanks.

Eh, Sasha's 25 this week, Anderson's 26, Jermaine's 30. So it's not as though you get ancient all of a sudden. Varejao will never take Big Z's spot, as long as Ferry is the Cavs' GM. Cleveland would be an exceptionally good environment for O'neal, I think, and this would allow CLE to match up much better against Boston and the Lakers.

Roger Murdock wrote:Jermaine oneil is one of the worst contracts in the NBA. He sucks, and everyone was trying to convince themselves otherwise for no reason.

He's underperforming now since Bosh is getting all of the shots he's accustomed to, but he doesn't suck. C'mon now. It's not as though CLE is giving up the world, either.

T-Spot · Post #7 » by **T-Spot** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:36 am

JO might not have gaudy stats, but the Raptor interior defense is just so much better with him on the floor and he really relieves so much pressure on Bosh. Stuff like that just doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Andrea has made strides in his game [I'd like to see more consistency on offense] but he is no where close to being as good as JO as a defensive anchor. Plus, I am pretty confident that give more time JO will get his legs under him and be able to be more productive.

Sasha is barely even in the Cleveland rotation this year and has been pretty terrible since last season, and Anderson is a rebounder/energizer off the bench, and pretty overrated I think, so I wouldn't even consider this trade. Varajeo basically replaces Bargnani on the bench and I don't really see how Pavs is a big improvement over anything, so I don't see how this give our bench a MAJOR boost anyway. The extra cap-space is nice though, but not worth doing the trade.

Post #8 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:44 am

The Cavs were not pursuing O'Neal when he was available and I don't think anything has changed to make them want him now. Yeah, he's only 30 but his injury history makes him seem alot older.

The Cavs have 33 yr old Z and 34 yr old Ben Wallace on the front line at present. No way are they going to give up their youngest and least fragile big for another over 30 often injured big.

bcortell · Post #9 » by **bcortell** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:15 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:
bcortell wrote:Wouldn't do it from Cavs POV. It just makes us too old.. and if andy continues to progress like he has thus far throughout the season and into next year he will earn his money and become our starting center, most likely. Jermaine, IMO, has produced less than what is expected of him (I do expect him to increase though), while Andy is improving his game. looks like Andy is improving while JO is declining. No thanks.

Eh, Sasha's 25 this week, Anderson's 26, Jermaine's 30. So it's not as though you get ancient all of a sudden. Varejao will never take Big Z's spot, as long as Ferry is the Cavs' GM. Cleveland would be an exceptionally good environment for O'neal, I think, and this would allow CLE to match up much better against Boston and the Lakers.

Sorry i didn't mean it how it sounded- i meant after 2010, when z will almost certainly retire. If JJ can become the stud that we're hoping (or the slipm possibility we bring in Bosh or Amare), Andy can be a nice defensive compliment to them.

Sasha doesn't play any so i don't care about his age. but andy at 26 is A LOT younger than JO at 30 (as outlaw mentioned- his injuries make him a lot older in basketball life, whatever that is).

And no we wouldn't be interested in moon (or kapono)

trwi7 · Post #10 » by **trwi7** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:39 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:He's underperforming now since Bosh is getting all of the shots he's accustomed to, but he doesn't suck.

I disagree. He's taking 11 shots per game, he's taken 12 on average in his career. His FG% is 43.6%, down from his career 45.9% and he's only grabbing 5.8 rebounds per game. That's terrible for a center.