PHX / BOS / MEM Trade

[Celtics>Breathing]

To Phoenix:

Ray Allen
JR Giddens
Gabe Pruit
#2 Pick

To Boston:

Mike Conley
Marko Jaric
Leandro Barbosa
Amare Stoudamire

To Memphis:

Rajon Rondo
Tony Allen
Brain Scalabrine
Louis Amundson
#14 Pick


Reasons-

Phoenix would then have Nash, Shaq, and Ray Allen coming off the books for 2010. They would be able to sign two of the top free agents available. (Lebron, Bosh), (Wade, Bosh), (Yao, Lebron), (Yao, Wade). The possibilities are endless. Phoenix is a warm weather desirable place to live. I think free agents would sign there especially if Nash resigns for lower money. Oh yeah they get the #2 pick in the draft, and a proven all-star who will help sell tickets during the transition year!!!!

Memphis has the if factor here. If they want a proven young player, (Rondo) would be that guy. Rondo has two long playoff runs under his belt, and a championship ring. He also just averaged a triple double in this post season so his stock is high. I think Memphis is nervous that Rubio, or Thabeet might end up being a bust. If they ended up being a bust it might signal the end of the franchise in Memphis. Memphis also would like to save money so getting rid of Jaric's contract is key. If they were going to spend any money it would be on Rondo, Mayo, Gay. They would still have the #14 pick (Blair?, Mullens?, Clark?) along with Gasol. Starting lineup of Rondo, Mayo, Gay, Blair, Gasol looks pretty good to me!

Boston could argue that this whole process is unnecessary. KG was out, and if he wasn't they might be raising up the 18th banner. Good argument, but Boston fans quickly forget about the era after their last big three (the 90's). Ainge has gone on record saying that Boston should have traded away one of the original aging big three to keep their movement going into the 90's. Ainge has also said that big expiring contracts are the way to keep a franchise having championship aspirations. Ray Allen is a professional and an all-star, but he is Boston's best trading chip in keeping this championship run going for many more years. There have also been rumors in Celtics Nation that Rondo is a prima donna, and that his agent is possibly asking for mucho dinero. Doc Rivers has talked about adding length to this team ever since they exited the playoffs. Amare provides that length. In today’s NBA there are only a couple of players (Yao, D-12, Big Z) off the top of my head that cause major issues down low. So a lineup of KG, and Amare with Perkins as a back up is not that far fetched. Perkins would probably play the same amount of minutes because he could play with either KG or Amare. Conley is a knock down 15 ft jump shooter that would be perfect in pick in rolls with KG, and Amare, and his last 15-20 games of this year were very impressive (makes you wonder why Memphis doesn't want him). Not to mention Barbosa who could be a possible 6th MOTY canidate. If the Celtics could sign an Andre Miller with their MLE to help ease the transition with Conley so be it. Maybe sign an Anthony Parker to help fill the gap that not having Ray Allen will cause.


Possible snags:

Amare Stoudimire's health
Memphis needing to sign Rondo long term
Memphis taking a possible PR hit for trading #2
Shaking up good chemistry in Boston for an unknown mix of players

[Celtics>Breathing]

Any thoughts? Thought I might get a few responses?

[Kerrsed]

No, no, and NO!

Phoenix would then have Nash, Shaq, and Ray Allen coming off the books for 2010. They would be able to sign two of the top free agents available. (Lebron, Bosh), (Wade, Bosh), (Yao, Lebron), (Yao, Wade)

With that reasoning, we could keep Amare and let him be a expiring without giving up Barbosa AND Amundson for 2 undrafted guards that have accomplished ANYTHING!!!! The number 2 would be nice (if we were looking at Rubio/Thabeet/Harden), but with Rubio's lawsuit, and the fact that last year we had a hell of a time buying out Dragic's contract, i highly doubt we would go after Rubio. If we were going for a PG this draft, we would look at Flynn, Jennings, and Lawson who will all be available later. Kerr already said who-ever we draft is not going to get significant playing time this season. So i dont see us moving up to get Rubio/Thabeet/Harden.

As for your FA selections, Yao would NOT fit in a run and gun system and the thought of him in a Suns jersey is just crazy, Wade will not come to PHX (IF he leaves Miami it will be for CHI), and LeBron is not going to any team not named "The New York Knicks". Bosh is a possibility, but i would rather have Amare then Bosh.

If BOS were serious about trying to get Amare, it would have to be a better package a'la Amare/Jrich for Rondo/Allen/Perkins. PHX might even be inclined to give up the #14 or trade picks.

Then BOS could make a play to get Rafer Alston. Magic will need some cap space if they are going to re-sign Turk and Gortat. Maybe Scalabrine and Giddens for Skip?or someone else that has a low buyout rate.

Skip to my Lou
JRICH
Pierce
Garnett
Amare

That would be a BADASS team right there! If BOS had that team i might have to turn into a Celtic fan!

[Ian Kognitow]

Seems bad all around. Assuming this does all work cap-wise:

PHO: Probably gets the best out of it though still questionable. Assuming #2 is Rubio, Stoudemire still is worth more, particularly since the Suns would not be getting any PF replacement in the deal (and even lose Amundson, for that matter.) Allen is good but not for a rebuilding squad, in which case Barbosa is probably more valuable as a younger/faster/cheaper player.

BOS: Gives up an all-star caliber/championship-worthy backcourt of Allen/Rondo mainly to get Stoudemire, who plays the same position as Garnett, Davis, and Powe? Rondo is far better than Conley will likely ever be. Barbosa is good, but Allen is better and already aclimated to the system. Jaric is a bad contract and the team would do better retaining Marbury. Pretty much no advantages anywhere for Boston.

MEM: They give up a number 2 pick, which most say should be Rubio--who is hailed as a potential all-star PG, and could at least be traded for similar talent at a different position; *and* a fine PG prospect in Conley, for a different PG who is 'proven' to still not quite be an all-star PG. And then add some disposable players into it? No. Better to keep Conley and trade Rubio for what could probably yield at least a top-prospect PF *and* something more valuable than a #14 pick.

[Celtics>Breathing]

No, no, and NO!

Phoenix would then have Nash, Shaq, and Ray Allen coming off the books for 2010. They would be able to sign two of the top free agents available. (Lebron, Bosh), (Wade, Bosh), (Yao, Lebron), (Yao, Wade)

With that reasoning, we could keep Amare and let him be a expiring without giving up Barbosa AND Amundson for 2 undrafted guards that have accomplished ANYTHING!!!! The number 2 would be nice (if we were looking at Rubio/Thabeet/Harden), but with Rubio's lawsuit, and the fact that last year we had a hell of a time buying out Dragic's contract, i highly doubt we would go after Rubio. If we were going for a PG this draft, we would look at Flynn, Jennings, and Lawson who will all be available later. Kerr already said who-ever we draft is not going to get significant playing time this season. So i dont see us moving up to get Rubio/Thabeet/Harden.

As for your FA selections, Yao would NOT fit in a run and gun system and the thought of him in a Suns jersey is just crazy, Wade will not come to PHX (IF he leaves Miami it will be for CHI), and LeBron is not going to any team not named "The New York Knicks". Bosh is a possibility, but i would rather have Amare then Bosh.

If BOS were serious about trying to get Amare, it would have to be a better package a'la Amare/Jrich for Rondo/Allen/Perkins. PHX might even be inclined to give up the #14 or trade picks.

Then BOS could make a play to get Rafer Alston. Magic will need some cap space if they are going to re-sign Turk and Gortat. Maybe Scalabrine and Giddens for Skip?or someone else that has a low buyout rate.

Skip to my Lou
JRICH
Pierce
Garnett
Amare

That would be a BADASS team right there! If BOS had that team i might have to turn into a Celtic fan!

Um....

Not really in ANY agreement with you! Kerr said that about the player he is picking because he would be picking at 14. Why would Boston want Rafer Alston, why would anyone want Rafer Alston? Obviously Free Agency is a gamble but to say NO ONE will come to PHX is absurd. You have no value for the #2 pick?

[Celtics>Breathing]

Seems bad all around. Assuming this does all work cap-wise:

PHO: Probably gets the best out of it though still questionable. Assuming #2 is Rubio, Stoudemire still is worth more, particularly since the Suns would not be getting any PF replacement in the deal (and even lose Amundson, for that matter.) Allen is good but not for a rebuilding squad, in which case Barbosa is probably more valuable as a younger/faster/cheaper player.

BOS: Gives up an all-star caliber/championship-worthy backcourt of Allen/Rondo mainly to get Stoudemire, who plays the same position as Garnett, Davis, and Powe? Rondo is far better than Conley will likely ever be. Barbosa is good, but Allen is better and already aclimated to the system. Jaric is a bad contract and the team would do better retaining Marbury. Pretty much no advantages anywhere for Boston.

MEM: They give up a number 2 pick, which most say should be Rubio--who is hailed as a potential all-star PG, and could at least be traded for similar talent at a different position; *and* a fine PG prospect in Conley, for a different PG who is 'proven' to still not quite be an all-star PG. And then add some disposable players into it? No. Better to keep Conley and trade Rubio for what could probably yield at least a top-prospect PF *and* something more valuable than a #14 pick.

Phoenix would be doing this to clear cap, and get the #2 pick. Does PHX overvalue Amare right now considering how this past year went. Injuries, comments, etc.......

[Kerrsed]

Not really in ANY agreement with you! Kerr said that about the player he is picking because he would be picking at 14. Why would Boston want Rafer Alston, why would anyone want Rafer Alston? Obviously Free Agency is a gamble but to say NO ONE will come to PHX is absurd. You have no value for the #2 pick?

I never said NO ONE will come to PHX, just the names you mentioned (YAO, WADE, LEBRON). Throwing those names out there is just silly. And no, I dont have any value for the #2. The only reason to go after the #2 is to pick Rubio or Harden. We have JRICH and Barbosa who in my opinion are both better then Harden will ever be (I've watched enough ASU games to know this), and Rubio will be a hassle to get/deal with. IMHO Flynn or Jennings will do just as good and will be available latter in the draft (around 14).

As for Rafer, fine, I understand you might not like him, I do (and think he would do great as a Sun in the Run-and-Gun offense), then exclude that trade idea and go after Andre Miller. Miller made $10,333,334. last season so I really highly doubt that you could get him for the MLE. The only other FA PG this year are Von Wafer, Jarrett Jack, Juan Carlos Navarro, Chris Quinn, Sessions, Damon Jones, Bobby Brown, Nate Robinson, Tyronn Lue, Royal Ivey, Ronnie Price, Brevin Knight, Bibby, and Kidd. You know Bibby and Kidd wont sign for the MLE so you can take them off the list. The only PG i would be interested in on that FA list is Sessions. He had an awesome year last year and i think Milwaukee is going to do whatever it takes to keep him a Buck. KryptoNate would be pretty interesting if Garnett could keep him in-line, but then again Nate is a player NO-ONE likes, but for some strange reason, I do.

[Jimmy103]

So let me get this straight, Danny wanted to trade one of the big 3 so he now wants to trade Ray for a defensive sieve when he already has Perkins in tow...who fits perfectly into the role at Celtics center. Amare has no place in Boston, sorry. Offer Memphis Amare for 2.

[Kerrsed]

Phoenix would be doing this to clear cap, and get the #2 pick. Does PHX overvalue Amare right now considering how this past year went. Injuries, comments, etc.......

Phoenix could care less about the #2. STATs injury is kinda scary (but he had the surgery and the Doc said it will be as good as new), but his Micro-Fracture is no problem. His comments are just like ANY OTHER PLAYERS who are going to be a FA and commanding a max contract. You kiss ass to the media so you can get them to make a bid, thus increasing his pay. He was out promoting his new artist JUICE (if you haven't heard about him, Deff. check him out), and said the same thing in WAS, ATL, NYC, etc. "I would LOVE to play in ______!". "Be ready for a #1 jersey in your town". "I think ____ has a good team and are just an Amare away from being a contender.". All FA do this when their contracts are running out. It's just lip service.

So let me get this straight, Danny wanted to trade one of the big 3 so he now wants to trade Ray for a defensive sieve when he already has Perkins in tow...who fits perfectly into the role at Celtics center. Amare has no place in Boston, sorry.

Amare is a top 5 PF and can be a BEAST. He dosent play alot of defense (a blocked shot here and there), but people need to learn that it was our SYSTEM that required no D. The D'antoni system was stand in front of your man, let him shoot (hopefully a bad shot), then run down to offense and Get a high % shot. just outscore them! Dont worry about the offensive rebounds, just run down the floor get in your mans face and give them a low % shot.. Put him on a defensive team (Celtics) and i think his defense would improve greatly! Garnett would be all in his face about it. Bostons gameplay REQUIRES it.So for all the people that say he cant defend, realize that the system didnt require it

That is why we value Amare so high.

[Ian Kognitow]

Phoenix would be doing this to clear cap, and get the #2 pick. Does PHX overvalue Amare right now considering how this past year went. Injuries, comments, etc.......

Cap space for what? James or Wade would only leave their current teams for the NY market. Stoudemire is arguably worth more than Yao or Bosh anyway and is already there. Who's left? Try to bring Joe Johnson back? Allen for a cheaper number? In any case, would such players provide such better performance over Barbosa as to justify having to pay at least double what Barbosa makes?
I would say, also, that Stoudemire is a better guy to build a team around than, presumably, Ricky Rubio at #2, so the pick doesn't work as a big trump to justify wholesale change.

Phoenix would still have a good amount of cap space between O'Neal's contract expiring, and possibly Nash's, to sign at least one top free agent. And they'd at least have semblance of an organisation in place in order to attract one.

[grizzleGM]

This is really bad for Memphis.

[Ian Kognitow]

Amare is a top 5 PF and can be a BEAST. He dosent play alot of defense (a blocked shot here and there), but people need to learn that it was our SYSTEM that required no D. The D'antoni system was stand in front of your man, let him shoot (hopefully a bad shot), then run down to offense and Get a high % shot. just outscore them! Dont worry about the offensive rebounds, just run down the floor get in your mans face and give them a low % shot.. Put him on a defensive team (Celtics) and i think his defense would improve greatly! Garnett would be all in his face about it. Bostons gameplay REQUIRES it.So for all the people that say he cant defend, realize that the system didnt require it

Stoudemire is well known to hate having to play center and also has openly said that he wants to be the clear franchise player and number 1 option on a team: something he does not get alongside Garnett and Pierce. Moreover, though Stoudemire gets a lot of points around the basket, they're mainly on drives and put-backs as he doesn't have a traditional low-post game, preferring to set up around the high-post. In your scenario, the Celtics would do better trying to keep Perkins, try to pawn off Glen Davis instead, and bump Garnett and Pierce down to SF and SG respectively.

And in any case, I think Phoenix would be much better off not doing such a deal for either Perkins or Davis

[Kerrsed]

Stoudemire is well known to hate having to play center and also has openly said that he wants to be the clear franchise player and number 1 option on a team: something he does not get alongside Garnett and Pierce. Moreover, though Stoudemire gets a lot of points around the basket, they're mainly on drives and put-backs as he doesn't have a traditional low-post game, preferring to set up around the high-post. In your scenario, the Celtics would do better trying to keep Perkins, try to pawn off Glen Davis instead, and bump Garnett and Pierce down to SF and SG respectively.

And in any case, I think Phoenix would be much better off not doing such a deal for either Perkins or Davis

He has also made it clear that he wants a championship and be on a contending team. Hard to be on a contender when you want to be the only star. Kind of a catch 22 situation. Stat has played at C for us (and did a good job at it), but has struggled DEFENDING the tall centers (Yao, Duncan), which Garnett could cover. If you want Amare to be at the high post, move Garnett to the low post and have him get the rebound and put backs, as Amare has an automatic jumper from the top of the key/free throw line. To move Peirce/Garnett to SG/SF is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) as you either use Amare/Garnett as your C.

[Ian Kognitow]

He has also made it clear that he wants a championship and be on a contending team. Hard to be on a contender when you want to be the only star. Kind of a catch 22 situation.

Well, yes - which is why he has often been viewed as a problem for Phoenix when he makes public statements about not being the #1 option and obvious best player. Maybe he wasn't as much of a malcontent as Marion, but Stoudemire's attitude was considered a problem to a significant degree while Phoenix was contending. But if Stoudemire were viewed as being as good a teammate as Garnett or Duncan, Phoenix would never consider trading him at his age for anything but a top 5 player.

Stat has played at C for us (and did a good job at it), but has struggled DEFENDING the tall centers (Yao, Duncan), which Garnett could cover. If you want Amare to be at the high post, move Garnett to the low post and have him get the rebound and put backs, as Amare has an automatic jumper from the top of the key/free throw line. To move Peirce/Garnett to SG/SF is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) as you either use Amare/Garnett as your C.

I didn't say moving Pierce/Garnett was necessarily a good option - but better than having Stoudemire or Garnett play center. Pierce and Garnett have at least played those positions before with success. Garnett has probably less of a real post game than Stoudemire, but could potentially work with Stoudemire at SF since he likes setting up along the wings. Seriously, if Garnett could legitimately play center, how would Minnesota have played him all those years firmly away from the possibility, by starting the likes of Dean Garrett, Rasho Nesterovic, Loren Woods, Cherokee Parks, Ervin Johnson, Stanley Roberts, Mark Blount,and Michael Olowokandi at center? Guys like Joe Smith, Tom Gugliotta, even Gary Trent did start at PF, but then Garnett was moved to SF - which was actually his usual spot until Sczerbiak moved him *up* to PF. But center? Look at the distinguished list.

[Kerrsed]

That list is pretty disgusting! Cant see how anyone could be a Minnesota fan, past, present, OR future!

[amitg]

Trade is horrible for the suns.

If i would trade with boston, this is what i'll do:
Shaq & J-Rich for Allen, Perkins, filler (Scalbarine) and a future #1

The suns get rid of J-Rich's contract, get an expiring slightly lower than Shaq's, and a nice young C that should complement Amare better than Shaq does (and play better D against the PnR).

Boston, they solve their Dwight Howard problem, without losing firepower.

do think anyone could mess with a lineup of:
Rondo
J-Rich
Pierce
KG
Shaq

[Ian Kognitow]

Trade is horrible for the suns.

If i would trade with boston, this is what i'll do:
Shaq & J-Rich for Allen, Perkins, filler (Scalbarine) and a future #1

The suns get rid of J-Rich's contract, get an expiring slightly lower than Shaq's, and a nice young C that should complement Amare better than Shaq does (and play better D against the PnR).

Boston, they solve their Dwight Howard problem, without losing firepower.

1) The money is still not close enough even with Phoenix accepting Scalabrine. Giddens or Walker would have to be thrown in as well. The future #1 from Boston is most likely a fairly worthless guaranteed contract that Phoenix wouldn't want. Nonetheless, minor details. Leave the pick, add Walker, and Phoenix I imagine would be more than happy with this trade. Because it makes very, very little sense for Boston...

2) Perkins just averaged 12/12 with 3 blocks in the playoffs, only costs $4M/year for two more years, and is only 24. Why would Boston give that up for a season or two of a grossly overpaid Shaq and a downgrade at SG from Allen to Richardson, who has several guaranteed years at a prohibitive salary (as in, it would hinder re-signing Rondo and Shaq or his necessary replacement if he's only good for 1 year)?

Shaq may be somewhat more useful than Perkins in the one particular situation with Howard. Perkins is arguably more useful against the vast majority of other teams. and after a couple years against all teams upon O'Neal's retirement. Teams don't really rely on exclusive one-on-one defensive matchups when dealing with a player like Howard - and Garnett is probably the best help-defender at his position in the league. With his return, as well as that of Leon Powe, there is no particular "Dwight Howard problem" to get so worked up over that two integral starters are traded away for what could be considered downgrades at both positions. Hell, if Boston were really looking for help, I'd think they could be more interested in getting Robin Lopez from Phoenix as cheap/large help at center before a crazy Shaq trade.

[dsorc]

Trade is horrible for the suns.

If i would trade with boston, this is what i'll do:
Shaq & J-Rich for Allen, Perkins, filler (Scalbarine) and a future #1

The suns get rid of J-Rich's contract, get an expiring slightly lower than Shaq's, and a nice young C that should complement Amare better than Shaq does (and play better D against the PnR).

Boston, they solve their Dwight Howard problem, without losing firepower.

do think anyone could mess with a lineup of:
Rondo
J-Rich
Pierce
KG
Shaq

Dwight Howard problem? Did you see the Boston/Orlando series? Perkins has been handling Howard one on one for years. We have no Howard problem. (What we had in the playoffs was more of a Rashard Lewis problem but that's expected given no KG)

And of course that trades makes sense for phoenix. Not only do they get the better talent they also get the better salary.

As to the original trade, heck no from Boston. The original rumor was something made up by a radio DJ in phoenix. Rondo is almost untouchable based on reports that came out after that rumor. Amare plays the same position as KG and neither should be playing C for heavy minutes. The contracts also suck for Boston as you have them consolidating all their youngs and expiring on their bench for overpaid Jaric. It's not even close for Boston.

[sunsfan9]

i wouldnt do that trade sending amare to boston to play with pierce and garnett no way hose