Caron Butler's Trade Value

Houston Suns · Post #1 » by **Houston Suns** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:22 pm

A non wizards fan, trying to gauge his trade value.
He seems like he still a good player. But the Wizards arent meeting expectations, and Arenas(according to the wiretap) has had nothing good to say about Butler.
So whats his trade value nowadays?
What are the wizards looking for in return?

SO_MONEY · Post #2 » by **SO_MONEY** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:31 pm

I think Washington could get a late first and a average player. 2011 expirings not that valuable maybe a contender with an aging core like BOS or LAL might bite on something?

yungal07 · Post #3 » by **yungal07** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:33 pm

Expirings, talent and picks.

Butler's trade value is still solid, and many contending teams would love him.

Post #4 » by **nate33** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:37 pm

Butler is physically the same player he was last year. He hasn't lost a step at all. Indeed, he is playing the best man-to-man defense of his career. Butler's problem is that he's a very poor fit for Flip Saunders' system. Flip's system requires the SF to be predominantely a catch-and-shoot type of player. Butler isn't comfortable in that role. He much prefers to face up his player, make a few jab steps, and either pull up for a jumper or drive to the hole. Butler would be a better fit in an offense that allows him to create in space with the intent to score or set up others.

I think the Wizards will start shopping Butler if their woes continue. Arenas is getting better every day so he won't be moved. Jamison fits just fine and is having another excellent season so he isn't the problem. Butler is the odd man out.

The Wizards will look for the best talent they can get at any position other that PG. The ideal player would be a shutdown perimeter defender who can catch-and-shoot on offense, even if he does little else. Of course a young age and a reasonable contract would be nice as well. Short of that, I think Butler could be moved for expiring contracts plus a reasonably high pick (10-15 range).

Trades that I'd like to see:
Butler for Batum + Blake + Outlaw
Butler for A.Randolph plus filler
Butler for Kaman
Butler for Gerald Wallace
Butler + Foye + pick for Iggy
Butler for Ariza + Cook + HOU 1st
Butler + Haywood for Kirilenko + NY 1st rounder
Butler + Stevenson for Deng

One thing to stress: the Wizards are not desperate. Butler is on a reasonable contract and continues to play hard each day. He is also showing some signs of playing better in the system (though I still think it's a waste of his talents). The Wizards don't have a gun to their head. They aren't going to be forced into a bad deal.

WashWiz54 · Post #5 » by **WashWiz54** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:37 pm

Anyone who has interest in Butler needs to know this; just because he hasn't found his groove this season DOES NOT mean we're selling low. He's signed through next season so we don't need to hit the panic button on him. If low ball offers is all we get, we're keeping him.

Now he is more available than say last summer, but he isn't a "must move" by any stretch.

SO_MONEY · Post #6 » by **SO_MONEY** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:38 pm

yungal07 wrote:Expirings, talent and picks.

Butler's trade value is still solid, and many contending teams would love him.

Good luck finding a team that would give up that!

These make me laugh :lol:

Butler for Batum + Blake + Outlaw :lol:

TAKE BATUM OUT BLAZER'S VALUE HIM MORE THAN BUTLER BY HIMSELF
Butler for A.Randolph plus filler :lol:

THIS JUST NEVER WOULD HAPPEN RANDOLPH HOLD MORE VALUE THAN THAT TO THE GSW. PLUS YOU RUB SALT IN THE WOUND BY ASKING FOR FILLER WHICH IS WHAT????
*Butler for Kaman* ------> THIS MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE I COULD SEE BUT I DON'T DO IT IF I'M LAC...I DO IT IF IT IS CAMBY
Butler for Gerald Wallace :lol:

EVEN THOUGH THE GUY IS MADE OF GLASS HE IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN BUTLER THE ONLY WAY THEY DO THE DEAL IS THEY DON'T WANT HIM FOR THE DERATION OF HIS CONTRACT.
Butler + Foye + pick for Iggy : DOUBT IT HAPPENS
Butler for Ariza + Cook + HOU 1st :lol:

SOME OF THESE ARE SO OUT THERE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START?
Butler + Haywood for Kirilenko + NY 1st rounder :lol:

SEE ABOVE
Butler + Stevenson for Deng -----> IF STEVENSON WAS EXPIRING THIS COULD HAPPEN

Houston Suns · Post #7 » by **Houston Suns** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:43 pm

Ok, so what would the hornets have to give up, to get Butler??

yungal07 · Post #8 » by **yungal07** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:56 pm

Houston Suns wrote:Ok, so what would the hornets have to give up, to get Butler??

The Hornets and Wizards are terrible trade partners. Both teams want to cut salary, so I don't see a deal that's feasible, especially since the Hornets really don't have any players (aside from the obvious) that the Wiz covet.

Post #9 » by **dockingsched** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:56 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:
yungal07 wrote:Expirings, talent and picks.

Butler's trade value is still solid, and many contending teams would love him.

Good luck finding a team that would give up that!

These make me laugh

Butler for Batum + Blake + Outlaw
Butler for A.Randolph plus filler
*Butler for Kaman* ------> THIS MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE I COULD SEE BUT I DON'T DO IT IF I'M LAC...I DO IT IF IT IS CAMBY
Butler for Gerald Wallace
Butler + Foye + pick for Iggy : DOUBT IT HAPPENS
Butler for Ariza + Cook + HOU 1st
Butler + Haywood for Kirilenko + NY 1st rounder
Butler + Stevenson for Deng -----> IF STEVENSON WAS EXPIRING THIS COULD HAPPEN

try something a little more constructive than a bunch of laughing smiley faces.

Post #10 » by **nate33** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:01 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:I think Washington could get a late first and a average player. 2011 expirings not that valuable maybe a contender with an aging core like BOS or LAL might bite on something?

You lost all credibility right here.

Butler is a 29-year-old player in his prime. He was an all-star 2 years ago and would have been an all star last year if he didn't have the misfortune of playing alongside Mike James at PG, Deshawn Stevenson at SG, and Darius Songaila at starting C.

SO_MONEY · Post #11 » by **SO_MONEY** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:I think Washington could get a late first and a average player. 2011 expirings not that valuable maybe a contender with an aging core like BOS or LAL might bite on something?

You lost all credibility right here.

Butler is a 29-year-old player in his prime. He was an all-star 2 years ago and would have been an all star last year if he didn't have the misfortune of playing alongside Mike James at PG, Deshawn Stevenson at SG, and Darius Songaila at starting C.

A value was asked for right??? I gave it! I am not a Washington fan so I am not going to hold overvalued opnions of your players. Sorry if the truth hurts but my value is more than fair. Washington is better off holding on to him because he brings much more to your team than what he will bring back.

Blazinaway · Post #12 » by **Blazinaway** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:13 pm

nate33 wrote:Butler is physically the same player he was last year. He hasn't lost a step at all. Indeed, he is playing the best man-to-man defense of his career. Butler's problem is that he's a very poor fit for Flip Saunders' system. Flip's system requires the SF to be predominantely a catch-and-shoot type of player. Butler isn't comfortable in that role. He much prefers to face up his player, make a few jab steps, and either pull up for a jumper or drive to the hole. Butler would be a better fit in an offense that allows him to create in space with the intent to score or set up others.

I think the Wizards will start shopping Butler if their woes continue. Arenas is getting better every day so he won't be moved. Jamison fits just fine and is having another excellent season so he isn't the problem. Butler is the odd man out.

The Wizards will look for the best talent they can get at any position other that PG. The ideal player would be a shutdown perimeter defender who can catch-and-shoot on offense, even if he does little else. Of course a young age and a reasonable contract would be nice as well. Short of that, I think Butler could be moved for expiring contracts plus a reasonably high pick (10-15 range).

Trades that I'd like to see:
Butler for Batum + Blake + Outlaw
Butler for A.Randolph plus filler
Butler for Kaman
Butler for Gerald Wallace
Butler + Foye + pick for Iggy
Butler for Ariza + Cook + HOU 1st
Butler + Haywood for Kirilenko + NY 1st rounder
Butler + Stevenson for Deng

One thing to stress: the Wizards are not desperate. Butler is on a reasonable contract and continues to play hard each day. He is also showing some signs of playing better in the system (though I still think it's a waste of his talents). The Wizards don't have a gun to their head. They aren't going to be forced into a bad deal.

As a POR fan I'd prefer to replace Rudy with Batum in your trade. Rudy/Outlaw/Blake for Butler.

yungal07 · Post #13 » by **yungal07** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:17 pm

Blazinaway wrote:
As a POR fan I'd prefer to replace Rudy with Batum in your trade. Rudy/Outlaw/Blake for Butler.

What is the prognosis on Rudy's back?

princeofpalace · Post #14 » by **princeofpalace** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:20 pm

nate33 wrote:Butler is physically the same player he was last year. He hasn't lost a step at all. Indeed, he is playing the best man-to-man defense of his career. Butler's problem is that he's a very poor fit for Flip Saunders' system. Flip's system requires the SF to be predominantely a catch-and-shoot type of player. Butler isn't comfortable in that role. He much prefers to face up his player, make a few jab steps, and either pull up for a jumper or drive to the hole. Butler would be a better fit in an offense that allows him to create in space with the intent to score or set up others.

I think the Wizards will start shopping Butler if their woes continue. Arenas is getting better every day so he won't be moved. Jamison fits just fine and is having another excellent season so he isn't the problem. Butler is the odd man out.

The Wizards will look for the best talent they can get at any position other that PG. The ideal player would be a shutdown perimeter defender who can catch-and-shoot on offense, even if he does little else. Of course a young age and a reasonable contract would be nice as well. Short of that, I think Butler could be moved for expiring contracts plus a reasonably high pick (10-15 range).

Trades that I'd like to see:
Butler for Batum + Blake + Outlaw
Butler for A.Randolph plus filler
Butler for Kaman
Butler for Gerald Wallace
Butler + Foye + pick for Iggy
Butler for Ariza + Cook + HOU 1st
Butler + Haywood for Kirilenko + NY 1st rounder
Butler + Stevenson for Deng

One thing to stress: the Wizards are not desperate. Butler is on a reasonable contract and continues to play hard each day. He is also showing some signs of playing better in the system (though I still think it's a waste of his talents). The Wizards don't have a gun to their head. They aren't going to be forced into a bad deal.

I haven't watched a lot of Wizards this year but Tayshaun Prince never suffered under Saunders and he is not a catch and shoot guy either

Post #15 » by **nate33** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:31 pm

princeofpalace wrote:I haven't watched a lot of Wizards this year but Tayshaun Prince never suffered under Saunders and he is not a catch and shoot guy either

Well, Tayshaun posted PER's in the 14-16 range under Flip. Butler is right now posting a PER of 13.3 after a horrible start. I expect his PER to be in the 15-16 range by the end of the season.

The difference is that Tayshaun is a lower-usage, defensive minded player. You are happy with Tayshaun posting a PER around 15 because you aren't looking at him for offense in the first place. Butler isn't as good as Tayshaun defensively so he needs make up that difference on offense. But Flip's system just doesn't give him enough touches in places that he's most comfortable.

Blazinaway · Post #16 » by **Blazinaway** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:38 pm

yungal07 wrote:
Blazinaway wrote:
As a POR fan I'd prefer to replace Rudy with Batum in your trade. Rudy/Outlaw/Blake for Butler.

What is the prognosis on Rudy's back?

very good, says he's feeling great as it was a smaller procedure that relieved the issue, due back 4-6 weeks from surgery of couple weeks ago.

Swammy · Post #17 » by **Swammy** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:09 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:
yungal07 wrote:Expirings, talent and picks.

Butler's trade value is still solid, and many contending teams would love him.

Good luck finding a team that would give up that!

These make me laugh

Butler for Batum + Blake + Outlaw TAKE BATUM OUT BLAZER'S VALUE HIM MORE THAN BUTLER BY HIMSELF
Butler for A.Randolph plus filler THIS JUST NEVER WOULD HAPPEN RANDOLPH HOLD MORE VALUE THAN THAT TO THE GSW. PLUS YOU RUB SALT IN THE WOUND BY ASKING FOR FILLER WHICH IS WHAT????
*Butler for Kaman* ------> THIS MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE I COULD SEE BUT I DON'T DO IT IF I'M LAC...I DO IT IF IT IS CAMBY
Butler for Gerald Wallace EVEN THOUGH THE GUY IS MADE OF GLASS HE IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN BUTLER THE ONLY WAY THEY DO THE DEAL IS THEY DON'T WANT HIM FOR THE DERATION OF HIS CONTRACT.
Butler + Foye + pick for Iggy : DOUBT IT HAPPENS
Butler for Ariza + Cook + HOU 1st SOME OF THESE ARE SO OUT THERE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START?
Butler + Haywood for Kirilenko + NY 1st rounder SEE ABOVE
Butler + Stevenson for Deng -----> IF STEVENSON WAS EXPIRING THIS COULD HAPPEN

All these trades are realistic. You're a moron and what is all the stupid laughing about? Butler is better than any player mentioned above.

rugby-hook · Post #18 » by **rugby-hook** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:37 am

The Clips won't trade Kaman for Butler, but he would be a big piece of the puzzle for LA. Some WDC fans have stated that the price for Butler is a talent, expiring and a pick. The Clips can provide all that in the following manner:

Butler and Nick Young (TPE) for Thornton, Ricky Davis, Rasual Butler and a 2010 pick with top 8 lottery protection.

LA gets a superior player and a young prosepct back, while giving up a high pick in a deep draft, talent in Thornton, and expiring in Davis and salary relief.

yungal07 · Post #19 » by **yungal07** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:47 am

^^^That's a reasonable offer, although it would be Stevenson going out and not Nick Young.

Post #20 » by **nate33** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:10 am

rugby-hook wrote:The Clips won't trade Kaman for Butler, but he would be a big piece of the puzzle for LA. Some WDC fans have stated that the price for Butler is a talent, expiring and a pick. The Clips can provide all that in the following manner:

Butler and Nick Young (TPE) for Thornton, Ricky Davis, Rasual Butler and a 2010 pick with top 8 lottery protection.

LA gets a superior player and a young prosepct back, while giving up a high pick in a deep draft, talent in Thornton, and expiring in Davis and salary relief.

The Wizards don't need Thornton and the Wizards wouldn't give up Young; but something based on Davis + R.Butler + top 8 protected lotto pick for Butler seems reasonable.