Thug Life: SAN ANTONIO - UTAH - PHILLY

Evermore · Post #1 » by **Evermore** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:56 am

Spurs outgoing: Richard Jefferson, Manu Ginobili, Antonio McDyess
Spurs incoming: Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Kyle Korver

Jazz outgoing: Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko, Kyle Korver
Jazz incoming: Richard Jefferson, Manu Ginobili, Antonio McDyess

76ers outgoing: Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala
76ers incoming: Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko

Case for San Antonio: They create the best starting frontcourt in the NBA with Brand and Duncan while reloading with an all-star calibre wing in Iguodala who's just entering his prime. Korver provides some financial flexibility when his contract expires after the season...

Parker
Mason/Finley
Iguodala/Korver
Brand/Bonner
Duncan/Bonner

Case for Utah: They upgrade their SG and SF positions with Ginobili and Jefferson without sacrificing any of their longterm core. McDyess provides solid minutes as well as leadership to the frontcourt. Boozer's departure clears the way for Millsap to take on a significant role...

Williams/Maynor
Ginobili/Brewer
Jefferson/Brewer
Millsap/McDyess
Okur/Millsap

Case for Philly: They give themselves complete and total financial freedom for the summer of 2011 when Kirilenko, Dalembert, Kapono and Willie Green come off the books clearing approx. 40 million. Boozer's expiring could be flipped for longterm assets and picks...

Williams/Holiday
Iverson/Williams/Green
Young/Kirilenko
Boozer/Speights
Dalembert//Boozer/Speights

BringBackKorver · Post #2 » by **BringBackKorver** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:14 am

I think the consensus for Philly fans on this is that we need the NY pick to consider the trade. Jazz fans seem to be 50/50 on giving up the pick for Iggy / Elton.

Post #3 » by **Foshan** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:57 am

BringBackKorver wrote:I think the consensus for Philly fans on this is that we need the NY pick to consider the trade. Jazz fans seem to be 50/50 on giving up the pick for Iggy / Elton.

+1, add the NY pick and its a deal.

Mamba Venom · Post #4 » by **Mamba Venom** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:17 am

Very good trade for the Spurs

Evermore · Post #5 » by **Evermore** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:29 am

Foshan wrote:
BringBackKorver wrote:I think the consensus for Philly fans on this is that we need the NY pick to consider the trade. Jazz fans seem to be 50/50 on giving up the pick for Iggy / Elton.

+1, add the NY pick and its a deal.

Won't Philly have their own lottery pick next year?

There's no way you dump Brand's contract AND get NY's pick...

Boozer isn't just an expiring contract to make the contracts work...he's a legit 20/10 all-star...and he'll have significant value at the trade deadline

jowglenn · Post #6 » by **jowglenn** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:38 am

At first glance, I thought this was terrible for the Spurs. Elton Brand? Nobody wants Elton Brand. Besides, the Spurs aren't exactly bereft of power forwards.

But then reexamining it from the big picture perspective, I could see it. If San Antonio was confident enough that Brand's injury was a one-time thing, and that he'll produce steadily, they might have to do it. Manu is only getting older, and he's had some serious injury concerns. I know it hurts to move a guy who's been that dear to your heart, but what if he gets injured again? You won't get value for him in the future. Jefferson has been very ordinary so far, and he isn't exactly cheap. This trade gets them an athletic, defensive all-star caliber wing who is just getting into his prime. It could set them up for a long time.

Parker/Hill
Mason/Korver
Iggy/Finley
Brand/Blair
Duncan/Bonner

Not bad.

If I'm the Jazz, I jump all over this (which indicates to me that they are getting the sweetheart deal here - they might need to add more). They move a guy who is as good as gone next year (boozer) a vastly overpaid redundant guy (kirilenko) and change (Korver) for basically the 2 best wing players Deron Williams has ever had. Ginoblii is an all-star caliber guy. if his health holds up, this would be huge for hte Jazz. Add in that NYK 2010 pick, their own pick, their capspace or whatever, and they could have something special.

Philly? Well if you want to tear it down, I suppose you could do this. But I dunno, using Iggy to move Brand's contract, and getting nothing of actual player-value? Just expirings for this year and next? That's a tough damn sell to your fans, trading your best player and not getting any keepers. Maybe Utah needs to send ronnie brewer and their own pick to philly.

Evermore · Post #7 » by **Evermore** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:20 am

jowglenn wrote:At first glance, I thought this was terrible for the Spurs. Elton Brand? Nobody wants Elton Brand. Besides, the Spurs aren't exactly bereft of power forwards.

But then reexamining it from the big picture perspective, I could see it. If San Antonio was confident enough that Brand's injury was a one-time thing, and that he'll produce steadily, they might have to do it. Manu is only getting older, and he's had some serious injury concerns. I know it hurts to move a guy who's been that dear to your heart, but what if he gets injured again? You won't get value for him in the future. Jefferson has been very ordinary so far, and he isn't exactly cheap. This trade gets them an athletic, defensive all-star caliber wing who is just getting into his prime. It could set them up for a long time.

Parker/Hill
Mason/Korver
Iggy/Finley
Brand/Blair
Duncan/Bonner

Not bad.

If I'm the Jazz, I jump all over this (which indicates to me that they are getting the sweetheart deal here - they might need to add more). They move a guy who is as good as gone next year (boozer) a vastly overpaid redundant guy (kirilenko) and change (Korver) for basically the 2 best wing players Deron Williams has ever had. Ginoblii is an all-star caliber guy. if his health holds up, this would be huge for hte Jazz. Add in that NYK 2010 pick, their own pick, their capspace or whatever, and they could have something special.

Philly? Well if you want to tear it down, I suppose you could do this. But I dunno, using Iggy to move Brand's contract, and getting nothing of actual player-value? Just expirings for this year and next? That's a tough damn sell to your fans, trading your best player and not getting any keepers. Maybe Utah needs to send ronnie brewer and their own pick to philly.

Jazz pretty much break even...gaining maybe a slight edge

Ginobili = Boozer
Jefferson = Kirilenko
McDyess is better than Korver...but then Korver is an expiring...as are Boozer and Manu
Jefferson and AK47 have 1 year remaining

Philly fans will understand the philosophy behind the trade...

They have some decent young pieces in place with Young, Williams, Speights and Holiday that a rebuilding period is acceptable...

Keep in mind..Philly would have MAJOR cap space for the summer of 2011...

BringBackKorver · Post #8 » by **BringBackKorver** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:27 am

Evermore wrote:
Foshan wrote:
BringBackKorver wrote:I think the consensus for Philly fans on this is that we need the NY pick to consider the trade. Jazz fans seem to be 50/50 on giving up the pick for Iggy / Elton.

+1, add the NY pick and its a deal.

Won't Philly have their own lottery pick next year?

There's no way you dump Brand's contract AND get NY's pick...

Boozer isn't just an expiring contract to make the contracts work...he's a legit 20/10 all-star...and he'll have significant value at the trade deadline

Just because Philly has their own pick doesn't mean a top 5 pick is useless to us. You also have to understand that Philly isn't in a position to be trying to win, so Boozer is only there as an expiring / prayer to get him extended. We are giving Iguodala, who has a pretty good contract and is a young all star level talent. I would never give him away just to dump Brand's contract. Even if it was for pure expiring deals (like Tmac for Brand / Iggy), it isn't worth it to Philly. In this deal we bring back AK47 who has a huge deal next year. If the NY pick isn't involved, Philly doesn't even consider this.

jowglenn · Post #9 » by **jowglenn** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:28 am

Evermore wrote:
jowglenn wrote:Keep in mind..Philly would have MAJOR cap space for the summer of 2011...

Yes, but for whom?

Capspace is nice, but it's often illusory. You end up spending it badly. Look at Detroit, who just signed Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva to huge contracts because they had cap space. They'll regret that (maybe not gordon, but definitely villa) Look at Toronto signing Hedo Turkoglu.

You put all your chips on the table like this w/ capspace, you MUST sign someone with it. Whether they deserve it or not, whether they fit well or not, you've made a promise to your fans that you're going to do something with that cap space. So who is their target in 2011?

I'm just saying you need at least something tangible in return when you trade a guy like Iggy.