Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[DayofMourning]

Pretty simple for me. Im a Heat fan. Not a player fan. Not up for giving away money just for chits and gigs.

[AirP.]

It's not one more year. It's one more year on top of the already one more year he's already got. I'm not comfortable with his player option. I'd be thrilled if he declined it. Unfortunately he'll only do that if the Heat are dumb enough to add another year.

Why doesn't Butler wait? Hasn't he heard about the new CBA and the escalating salary cap? Think about how much more he could make by waiting to sign.

This isn't a new thing. I've been beating this drum since Butler got here. There was a window for success, and that window is now closing. There was also a window where he'd be able to earn his money, and a declining return on our investment towards the end of his contract. I'm not interested in further financing his decline. I'm good with paying him next season. I'm OK with paying him the year after that if he decides to stick around. I'm not even remotely OK with anything beyond that.

Let me ask you this, why would any top tier player want to play in Miami if he sees the Butler get moved? Why would say... Luka, Edwards, SGA, Wemby or some other top tier players consider signing in Miami if he knows he could make them highly successful and still could be looked at as just an asset that they may ship him out somewhere he doesn't want to go? This is the situation Miami has been trying to clean up since not paying Wade. It's what Chicago has always done and with that, they really don't get considered by any high tier players but can overpay to get not top tier talent like they did with Boozer, Wade and the most current DeRozan.

[IceColdCubano]

Also if it's "only one year", then Jimmy shouldn't mind waiting "only one year" to get a new contract.

His Agent won't allow that. That is bad business, you lock in an extension as soon as you can incase your player gets hurt he can continue to get paid. Also if that player continues to look worse for the ware, if say Jimmy plays 49 games next year, and finishes with 17,4,4 with more decreases to his FG% and Free throw rate, and Drives at the basket, then there's an even bigger chance of not getting paid or Miami now negotiating you down significantly. Whatever power the Agent can wield now he will take that immediately, and say were not working in good faith. Frankly Perhaps that should be Miami's go to say we want to keep you here, but perhaps lets look at this 1 year from now to understand how the team build is going to be impacted.

[SoFlaKingReal]

It is interesting to see all this optimism now Miami can get a #1 when they've been trying to find a one for 10 years and were given a gift in Butler forcing his way to Miami.

Is it possible, sure but it's probably not realistic which is why I think Miami and Butler decline his PO and add 2 more years.

Let me put this in perspective with this board.

Last year...
Basically, all Miami fans had no issue trading Herro (maybe to get more 1sts), multiple 1sts, possibly Jaquez Jr or Jovic (possibly both) and other assets for a 33 year old small guard paid the max for 3 more years meaning his last year would be age 36 and with him having a PO that last year he would have expected the same thing if he were good in Miami.
vs
Just extending Butler 1 year for nothing but cap space where this stronger good sized for a SF would be just 1 year older. It's pretty wild to me how fast this fan base changes on what's acceptable and what isn't.

Strong points, but I think many Heat fans are dishearterned by this season....this was possibly the least games I watched since before Wade arrived in 2003. This season was a special kind of mediocre that I'd rather them bottom out and start working towards something new than just run it back with an older Butler who has already shown us he doesnt take the regular season seriously.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Meanwhile, Bam is also eligible this offseason for a three-year $175 million extension if he doesnt make an All-NBA team. If he does, then its a four-year $245 million extension

[IceColdCubano]

It's not one more year. It's one more year on top of the already one more year he's already got. I'm not comfortable with his player option. I'd be thrilled if he declined it. Unfortunately he'll only do that if the Heat are dumb enough to add another year.

Why doesn't Butler wait? Hasn't he heard about the new CBA and the escalating salary cap? Think about how much more he could make by waiting to sign.

This isn't a new thing. I've been beating this drum since Butler got here. There was a window for success, and that window is now closing. There was also a window where he'd be able to earn his money, and a declining return on our investment towards the end of his contract. I'm not interested in further financing his decline. I'm good with paying him next season. I'm OK with paying him the year after that if he decides to stick around. I'm not even remotely OK with anything beyond that.

Let me ask you this, why would any top tier player want to play in Miami if he sees the Butler get moved? Why would say... Luka, Edwards, SGA, Wemby or some other top tier players consider signing in Miami if he knows he could make them highly successful and still could be looked at as just an asset that they may ship him out somewhere he doesn't want to go? This is the situation Miami has been trying to clean up since not paying Wade. It's what Chicago has always done and with that, they really don't get considered by any high tier players but can overpay to get not top tier talent like they did with Boozer, Wade and the most current DeRozan.

Teams do this all the time, and they don't seem to have an issue regardless people eventually say it was for the best once they look at the player continue to play worse and be out the league shortly after on another team. Eventually the fans, and media turn around and give you confirmation of what you did was right. Players these days are not married to team the way they were previously they'll do what's best for themselves and have zero love lost for something that team did to an aging star 5 years ago or 10 years ago. Also realize were not in the 2000's anymore its rare to get free agents signings and having super duper max money on the books to sign free agents. You do it through signings, and x players as long as the team outlook is good could care less about this. Lastly holding out this hope that top 10 players are going to not come to Miami firstly the chances of that are astronomically low, also SGA, Luka's, Edwards Wemby would never be allowed to ever hit free agency or be traded outside of 7-8 FRP's in their prime, and 4-5 FRP's in their later primes which Miami won't have available. Chicago is a terrible analogy to use for comparison because outside of how they've treaded free agents their FO is bad at building a team and managing players. Miami doesn't have that problem, were a markee spot, with great Organization, and great coaching. Moving an Aging star is not the end all be all we think it will be in this fantasy world.

[spectrec130]

Read on Twitter

Its the Young gun NBA now, the old head stars are getting wrecked left and right. This is a reminder were heading to a new NBA timeline. The old stars are not winning you a championship anymore, take that for what is worth, either build with the up and comers or fall into mediocrity for the foreseeable future. It's time to move on from Jimmy Butler and go for a young star as our pivotal player.

That is very telling..... Seems like the NBA is ready to turn the page and I'm all for it.

[Flash4thewin]

Meanwhile, Bam is also eligible this offseason for a three-year $175 million extension if he doesnt make an All-NBA team. If he does, then its a four-year $245 million extension

I hope he gets it, and get the recognition around the league for it. If Brown can get that so can Bam. That way we have Bam locked in.

[AirP.]

Pretty simple for me. Im a Heat fan. Not a player fan. Not up for giving away money just chits and gigs.

This is a highly interesting take. I don't think you've thought this out much at all.

I am a Butler fan; I've followed him and been active on 4 different team RealGM boards and the whole time I've wanted Butler to get a championship (of course). So let me ask you this, why in the **** would I rather want Butler to stay on this Miami roster (that you think is so far off) rather than be traded to a team that is making the trade because they believe that their roster would be a contender for a championship with what they give up acquiring Butler. Why? The answer, Miami isn't all that far off, on a hailmary the FO and Spoelstra gave a not very efficient Tyler Herro nearly 17+ shots a night in hopes he'd figure it out and be their efficient high-volume scorer that they needed, it didn't happen and with it, they probably threw away a championship chance instead of moving him with pieces for an older but more efficient scorer.

With Spoelstra having better knowledge of what Jovic and Jaquez Jr can give him, he can gameplan them into the rotation next year, Bam is still great and gives Miami a high floor of how bad they could be. If you can move Herro in a package for a more efficient volume scorer who can't be worse, than Herro on offense you have to rely less on your minimum contract guys for some type of scoring. Miami has a chance to be a contender for the next 3 years and Miami fans are willing to throw that away to be bad in hopes they can get a high pick to hopefully not miss in the draft like they did in 2021? Or possibly FINALLY be able to trade for that youngish #1 option that they haven't been able to do for a decade?

Right now... worst case scenario if they want, they turn a Herro package into LaVine or Beal (both better players than Herro by a good amount) Miami would be looking at a team of...

PG - Rozier, Wright (probably resigned on a 1-1)
SG - (Beal or LaVine), Robinson *Like I said, Beal or LaVine would be worst case scenarios for Miami to trade Herro for.
SF - Butler, Jaquez Jr (slowly taking more of Butler's minutes and eventually taking over staring SF when Butler is done)
PF - Jovic, Love(1 more year) and probably J.Cain on a min 2-3 year deal or Highsmith
C - Bam, (NEED A DEFENSIVE BACKUP BIG), Bryant(may opt out), Robinson on min 2-3 year deal

1st round pick... draft a project PG or SG to prepare for the future.
Sign a FA defensive center

Miami would have 4 vets starting that can give you 20 a night, in fact they have enough vet scoring that they could in the playoffs.... gasp hunt for mismatches with 4 of their starters, possibly all 5 instead of depending on just Butler, Bam and hopefully someone else scores.

Miami isn't that far off at all, an efficient scoring 2 replacing Herro would help this team greatly with consistency allowing the role-players just to play their roles.

Now, if you can team up Bam with a youngish #1 option, go for it, send everything to make that happen, if you can't then try to win.

[AirP.]

Meanwhile, Bam is also eligible this offseason for a three-year $175 million extension if he doesnt make an All-NBA team. If he does, then its a four-year $245 million extension

I hope he gets it, and get the recognition around the league for it. If Brown can get that so can Bam. That way we have Bam locked in.

Hope he gets it? It's highly important that Miami gives it to him as soon as possible to make it a better deal and to lock him down longer so there's no chance of him leaving. Bam's the one who might not take the early extension because he can get more money if he waits with the new media deal about to happen and it's quite possible if Butler's moved, he might not want to lose for multiple years then get moved like Butler possibly did, maybe he forces a trade by possibly leaving in FA at age 29.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

If Butler facilitates a Mitchell deal then i can live with this.

This is what I was going to say, if butler goes to Philly we’re without a doubt getting Mitchell; then we build our assets to get that 3rd star (Tatum ) when the time comes the following summer via sign and trade or opt-in and trade

[Kobewade11]

The big picture outlook here is that if he continues to be sleepy then you let him walk next year and clear his 36 million off the books. I sense he’ll have a banner year here playing for his next big contract with Spo unlocking full potential. It’s a worthy gamble and at worst you unloaded the contracts of Herro and Robinson.

One could argue we jumped at the wrong PG with our best moveable asset. Is Ingram the absolute best we could do with the tradeable assets we have left?

Which PG alternative was attainable?

Murray

[Daffy]

Read on Twitter

Its the Young gun NBA now, the old head stars are getting wrecked left and right. This is a reminder were heading to a new NBA timeline. The old stars are not winning you a championship anymore, take that for what is worth, either build with the up and comers or fall into mediocrity for the foreseeable future. It's time to move on from Jimmy Butler and go for a young star as our pivotal player.

This lacks so much context.

Clippers are basically playing without their best player.

Phoenix has a young star in Devin Booker. The roster build around him was just flawed and redundant.

Milwaukee was killed by injuries and bad coaching. Also didn't help having a coaching switch mid season. Isn't Giannis and Jokic the same age as well?

Miami. Young team outside of Butler who were also killed by injuries.

Lakers ran into arguably the worst matchup they could've out west with Denver.

New Orleans young team.

Philly. Young star in Maxey who just had a great playoff showing himself. Embiid was coming off of injury and he's also a year older than Jokic.


I say this to say it's all about how you build your team. You can win with young guys or old guys.

[Hoops3355]

Opinions are up for discussion. Whether you agree with them or not. No need to resort to personal attacks because you don’t agree with a projection not to your liking. State your rebuttal and move on.

It's not personal attack. Opinion are made up of personal beliefs. You literally didn't respond to facts that I pointed about his health issues which explains the lack of minutes after his initial runs to start the halfs (staying warm key component but also hard when you are gas / injured) in the Boston series and then turned into a "Spo doesn't trust him narrative" don't be so sensitive when someone offers a counter point to something ridiculous.

Why did Spo close out with him during that meaningless blowout if he was that banged up? When you throw out words like “illusions” it comes off as very off putting. I would prefer we get back to more positive discussions. I’m not saying i’m right all the time. I just try to give my best educated opinion from all the hours of the team i watch and the countless amount of news i take in.

Read on Twitter

You see what you want to see on the court. But Spo doesn't sound like a hater. Also you were talking about his ruggedness. He's 20. Look at the change in his physical side just in the last year. Dude is easily going to put on another 20lbs without a problem. Unlike Herro he actually was able to hang on to most of that weight.

[MettaWorldPanda]

One could argue we jumped at the wrong PG with our best moveable asset. Is Ingram the absolute best we could do with the tradeable assets we have left?

Which PG alternative was attainable?

Murray

Between Klutch and most likely the Hawks refusal to deal him for anything less than a haul and especially in the division. Highly doubtful

[3ammy3uck3ts]

AirP is going through it this morning

Don’t worry brother I’d be shocked if we traded him and if we did he’d be competing for championships. We also wouldn’t trade him if it meant we didn’t have a Mitchell coming back too

[greg4012]

One could argue we jumped at the wrong PG with our best moveable asset. Is Ingram the absolute best we could do with the tradeable assets we have left?

Which PG alternative was attainable?

Murray

Price tag for him was much higher (at least 2 FRPs plus player) and Hawks seemed very reluctant to move him. If the Heat opted against trading for Murray at the same price for which they obtained Rozier, then I take issue, as well. But, I highly doubt that to be the case given the rumors about the price tag for Murray and the fact he wasn't traded to LA.

[Kobewade11]

Which PG alternative was attainable?

Murray

Between Klutch and most likely the Hawks refusal to deal him for anything less than a haul and especially in the division. Highly doubtful

I dont know if it was ever reported what specifically the Hawks were looking for, certainly they weren't just going to give him away. He was available though.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Meanwhile, Bam is also eligible this offseason for a three-year $175 million extension if he doesnt make an All-NBA team. If he does, then its a four-year $245 million extension

He won’t get it, this team doesn’t take the regular season serious enough to get those kind of awards and he doesn’t have the clout that some of these players do. For instance Sabonis likely finishes higher while being a much worse player because of counting stats

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Fuxk 3 1sts we’ll send you Herro or Rozier too for Maxey and 1/2 1st.

We’ll fix our fuxk up of not drafting Maxey while you all will fix yours if taking Tobias Harris over Jimmy