Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[VaDe255]

If DM wants out and says Miami, they should do whatever it takes to get him and that includes looking to move Jimmy to get additional assets.

Then lock Bam and DM up on big contracts and try to fill out the roster in the upcoming years. That is a core that you can build around.

As much as I love Jimmy and how amazing he was for the Heat, he's not worth extending. I hope he can get a ring, but it's not looking like it will be with Miami.

[marson]

Phins got Odell. How about our Heat?

[RexBoyWonder]

If DM wants out and says Miami, they should do whatever it takes to get him and that includes looking to move Jimmy to get additional assets.

Then lock Bam and DM up on big contracts and try to fill out the roster in the upcoming years. That is a core that you can build around.

As much as I love Jimmy and how amazing he was for the Heat, he's not worth extending. I hope he can get a ring, but it's not looking like it will be with Miami.

Don't see the need to move Jimmy.

Mitchell is a help now AND build around later addition, that's the appeal. Take Jimmy out and we're just rebuilding.

Jovic + JJJ + all our picks + Herro should be enough to get an expiring Mitchell...weather we should give up all that is the question each of us can answer differently.

[Pokuokic]

If the Heat were playing out West it would be a easy choice to blow it up since they probably never make it past the 1st round or even get into the playoffs but with the East being so terrible (Boston aside and even they always manage to screw it up) every year even with the corpse of Jimmy and current Bam they only need 1 legit player (Herro/Rozier are not that) and a tiny bit of luck in staying healthy and they can make the finals. The East is such a joke it's really not hard to make the finals with a non elite team (you have teams like Indiana/Cavs or Magic/NYK making the 2nd round....)

They should have gone all in this year (tried to with Lillard) with Harden/Irving/whoever is not Tyler and they really should go all in for the next 2 years no need to extend Butler let him play out his contract.

A Trae Young/Hunter package would not be the worst thing in the world either but I think that's a 3 team deal since I don't see anything ATL would want from Miami.

A real wildcard would be a sign and trade for Miles Bridges......although he's unproven in the playoffs.

[ZoStrong]

If DM wants out and says Miami, they should do whatever it takes to get him and that includes looking to move Jimmy to get additional assets.

Then lock Bam and DM up on big contracts and try to fill out the roster in the upcoming years. That is a core that you can build around.

As much as I love Jimmy and how amazing he was for the Heat, he's not worth extending. I hope he can get a ring, but it's not looking like it will be with Miami.

Don't see the need to move Jimmy.

Mitchell is a help now AND build around later addition, that's the appeal. Take Jimmy out and we're just rebuilding.

Jovic + JJJ + all our picks + Herro should be enough to get an expiring Mitchell...weather we should give up all that is the question each of us can answer differently.

If you just replace Jimmy w Mitchell, you would call that roster rebuilding? That's already better than the one we just had.

If we had a chance, would you just do that without giving up much else, or give up all our assets but Bam n Jimmy? That's Bam/Jimmy/Mitchell + scrubs/old vets. If that trio don't win in two years, it's a failure. Jimmy's career is pretty much over in 2 years

[RexBoyWonder]

If DM wants out and says Miami, they should do whatever it takes to get him and that includes looking to move Jimmy to get additional assets.

Then lock Bam and DM up on big contracts and try to fill out the roster in the upcoming years. That is a core that you can build around.

As much as I love Jimmy and how amazing he was for the Heat, he's not worth extending. I hope he can get a ring, but it's not looking like it will be with Miami.

Don't see the need to move Jimmy.

Mitchell is a help now AND build around later addition, that's the appeal. Take Jimmy out and we're just rebuilding.

Jovic + JJJ + all our picks + Herro should be enough to get an expiring Mitchell...weather we should give up all that is the question each of us can answer differently.

If you just replace Jimmy w Mitchell, you would call that roster rebuilding? That's already better than the one we just had.

If we had a chance, would you just do that without giving up much else, or give up all our assets but Bam n Jimmy? That's Bam/Jimmy/Mitchell + scrubs/old vets. If that trio don't win in two years, it's a failure. Jimmy's career is pretty much over in 2 years

1. Bam + Mitchell + depth isn't good enough to compete for a title IMO.

2. I'd keep Jimmy and try to add Mitchell to him and Bam and build around them the best we can. We're good with undrafted/gleague players/minimum vets..so the hope is you get enough from those 4-9 spots on the roster and the real big 3 (Jimmy + Bam + Mitchell) stay healthy and carry us.

I'd keep Jimmy for both sentimental reasons, value reasons, narrative reasons, on court reasons and timeline reasons.

[unowen85]

Old Riley would’ve blown it up. With new Riley, I expect them to extend Butler and then run it back again with core of Butler, Herro, Jaime, and Bam. Anyone else will be on the market.

[dean456]

If DM wants out and says Miami, they should do whatever it takes to get him and that includes looking to move Jimmy to get additional assets.

Then lock Bam and DM up on big contracts and try to fill out the roster in the upcoming years. That is a core that you can build around.

As much as I love Jimmy and how amazing he was for the Heat, he's not worth extending. I hope he can get a ring, but it's not looking like it will be with Miami.

Don't see the need to move Jimmy.

Mitchell is a help now AND build around later addition, that's the appeal. Take Jimmy out and we're just rebuilding.

Jovic + JJJ + all our picks + Herro should be enough to get an expiring Mitchell...weather we should give up all that is the question each of us can answer differently.

Say you keep Jimmy, he signs the two year extension which starts after next season (so 3 more years). How much of that are we getting close enough to peak Jimmy to,
1. Win enough games to not be a play in team again?
2. Perform well enough to make a deep playoff run?
3. Actually win a championship?

Because after those 3yrs Jimmy's likely hanging it up at the start of the 2027/2028 season. If we trade for Mitchell, we'd have
No 2027 pick (traded for Rozier)
a 2028 FRP (can't trade)
No 2029 FRP (Traded for Mitchell)
a 2030 FRP (can't trade)
No 2031 FRP (Traded for Mitchell) and a 2031 2nd rounder
a 2032 FRP (can't trade) and 2nd
a 2033 FRP and 2nd

So at that stage we'd have Bam and Mitchell and one tradable FRP. So any hopes of continuing to build around Mitchell and Bam after Jimmy retires is pretty much pointless.

It makes way more sense to me to trade Jimmy now get the assets to add his replacement that's the same age as Bam without losing Jaquez or Jovic or all our remaining picks and either flip Herro, Rozier or both to build on the core of Bam, Mitchell, Jaquez, Jovic, Robinson, the #15 pick and then by the end of 2027/2028 we'd have all our own future picks available and be able to trade or draft to build around those two in their early 30s.

[ZoStrong]

Don't see the need to move Jimmy.

Mitchell is a help now AND build around later addition, that's the appeal. Take Jimmy out and we're just rebuilding.

Jovic + JJJ + all our picks + Herro should be enough to get an expiring Mitchell...weather we should give up all that is the question each of us can answer differently.

If you just replace Jimmy w Mitchell, you would call that roster rebuilding? That's already better than the one we just had.

If we had a chance, would you just do that without giving up much else, or give up all our assets but Bam n Jimmy? That's Bam/Jimmy/Mitchell + scrubs/old vets. If that trio don't win in two years, it's a failure. Jimmy's career is pretty much over in 2 years

1. Bam + Mitchell + depth isn't good enough to compete for a title IMO.

2. I'd keep Jimmy and try to add Mitchell to him and Bam and build around them the best we can. We're good with undrafted/gleague players/minimum vets..so the hope is you get enough from those 4-9 spots on the roster and the real big 3 (Jimmy + Bam + Mitchell) stay healthy and carry us.

I'd keep Jimmy for both sentimental reasons, value reasons, narrative reasons, on court reasons and timeline reasons.

First of all, not good enough for a title isn't a rebuilding. And I disagree. In the East, that's a top 4 team imo. A contender and a couple lucky breaks (happens every year in the playoffs) we'll be in the EC Finals or the Finals.

But more importantly, we got a long window to build around those two plus Jovic n Jaime. Trading Duncan/Herro/Terry/picks should get you another nice contributor or two. I seriously don't see the playoff Jimmy again, I'm afraid. He might have a good game here n there to remind you of the good times, but the best days of Jimmy are gone

[Rapaz]

Phins got Odell. How about our Heat?

Phins got Odell. The Heat got Old as Hell.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Then do what it takes to get that Mitchell type player, Pat fumbling this build will be one for the books

Cmon Bammy Pat fumbled 3x already, not expecting he will do different this time.

Best we could do is Trae or Ingram for our picks, Herro and one of Jaime or Jovic. Unless you want to trade Bam for Mitchell, but that ain't happening, of course.

An expiring Mitchell who has a say in where he wants to go isn’t getting a Bam level return; not even close.

I know Pat has been terrible with this build but eventually he has to get it right doesn’t he?!?! I mean surely he will instead of just losing Jimmy when we’ve been so close

“Miami Only” you are torturing yourself Bammy. Our offer is going to get beat and get beat bad by a team you would have never even thought he would play for.

[contract]

Let me ask you this, why would any top tier player want to play in Miami if he sees the Butler get moved? Why would say... Luka, Edwards, SGA, Wemby or some other top tier players consider signing in Miami if he knows he could make them highly successful and still could be looked at as just an asset that they may ship him out somewhere he doesn't want to go? This is the situation Miami has been trying to clean up since not paying Wade. It's what Chicago has always done and with that, they really don't get considered by any high tier players but can overpay to get not top tier talent like they did with Boozer, Wade and the most current DeRozan.

Why did Jimmy want to play here? Players don't give a crap.

Also Jimmy ain't Wade.

Jimmy isn't Wade but he did take a team heading nowhere to the ECF 3 out of 5 years and the NBA Finals 2 out of 5 years. He also went to Minnesota and got them into the playoffs after missing them 14 straight years.

Spoiler:

Butler and Wade got taken out of the starting lineup because they questioned the team's desire to win. Butler wanted to go to a team where the coach would hold everyone accountable, he was happy at first in Minnesota with Thibodeau until he found out Wiggins and Towns were the owner's golden boys and Towns was undermining Thibodeau by going to the owner asking for Thibodeau to be fired because he wasn't the main focal point of the offense with Butler there. Philly.. Butler was open to going back until he was told someone asking another person (he never named the people) if they thought they could control Butler (Jimmy and Brett Butler didn't see eye to eye at all), there's a great interview of Butler talking about not getting anything done in meetings or not even knowing who's in charge to JJ Redick who was a teammate of his at that time. The most telling part of the interview is him talking about Miami, we're in it to win it every year, we're not trying to lose... which speaks to why he's not in Chicago or Minnesota anymore, those teams were prioritizing the younger players over winning.

Watch on YouTube

He was also completely useless in the playoffs in 2 of those 5 years ... and he wasn't nearly great last season after the Bucks series.

But setting all that aside because no one is arguing that Jimmy hasn't been a 2nd tier superstar for years. He's now 35. That's the new reality. Take a good look at the playoff rosters. The oldest stars left standing are Kyrie Irving (just turned 32) and Rudy Gobert (just short of 32). As I've said before, every year beyond age 32 takes you ever closer to creeping NBA death. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to compete with a star in his mid 30s, but it's close to impossible.

In any case, close but no cigar for all of 5 years should not earn you a Kobe contract.

[contract]

Herro is most likely gone. That complete pants crapping he did against the Celts (minus an awesome game 2...) was the last straw.

Herro's career playoff numbers (in 46 games):

FG: .413
3pt: .330
FT: .898
eFG: .488
TS%: .525

Tyler starts out mediocre in the regular season, and then his performance drops in the postseason.

The one thing he does really well (FT%) ... he drops from 2.6 FTs per game in the regular season to 2.1 FTs in the postseason.

Not great.

[contract]

We’re getting Mitchell, you’re wasting breathe with any other topic and do NOT respond to this with a rebuttal because fact is you’re WRONG

Having this much confidence about getting him is bold, I think we all should’ve learned our lesson after the Dame stuff flopped.

Especially since Dan Gilbert doesn't like us very much.

[contract]

Jaime had a 32 game stretch from early November to mid January in which he averaged 16ppg, on 51/33/85 shooting splits. He then got injured.

I'm really looking forward to his year 2 development. 15/5/5 is a real possibility for him next year. He could morph into our version of Hedo Turkoglu.

Jaime isn't going to handle the ball enough to average 5 assists.

[Flash4thewin]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but Kyrie was a no brainer, classic distressed asset that could have been rehabilitated but Micky wasn’t touching that with a ten foot pole.

Distressed assets this summer are Mitchell Ingram and Trae due to contract situations (Ingram and Mitchell) and in Traes case just time to move on, value probably lowest it’s ever been

None of these guys are kyrie though. Kyrie had been there done that, saved Lebron’s legacy with a clutch 3 and was a legit star in a finals series against a prime warriors team. If there was one missed golden opportunity it was that one to a tee for Miami

Can we get over this narrative. The Nets were not going to trade him within the same conference, thats just crazy talk. Notice they traded him to the West. This is something to remember when it comes to Mitchell, thats not even factoring how the Cavs dont like us. So even if Mitchell says only Heat they can say sure go sign for the MLE, this wont be a 76ers situation.

[contract]

That offseason knee surgery Mitchell is going to need will drive the price down too

Milwaukee ... for Dame.

[contract]

Read on Twitter

Throwback

With the emergence of Brunson I can't see the Knicks making the play for Mitchell. Can't see him picking thr dumpster fire that is currently known as the Nets. This should be a done deal for us if he leaves via trade. Only team I can see sticking their nose in there that'll screw us over will be the Lakers.

Why would the Knicks want to take the ball out of Brunson's hands?

[Johnny Fontane]

Distressed assets this summer are Mitchell Ingram and Trae due to contract situations (Ingram and Mitchell) and in Traes case just time to move on, value probably lowest it’s ever been

None of these guys are kyrie though. Kyrie had been there done that, saved Lebron’s legacy with a clutch 3 and was a legit star in a finals series against a prime warriors team. If there was one missed golden opportunity it was that one to a tee for Miami

Can we get over this narrative. The Nets were not going to trade him within the same conference, thats just crazy talk. Notice they traded him to the West. This is something to remember when it comes to Mitchell, thats not even factoring how the Cavs dont like us. So even if Mitchell says only Heat they can say sure go sign for the MLE, this wont be a 76ers situation.

You’re overthinking it. Mitchell though Cavs would rather let walk than get cucked by Miami again

[contract]

Trading Jimmy doesn’t equal tank, we can use those assets and herro + Duncan to retool around bam.

This is your wet dream Holmes

I want to win with bam AND Jimmy, we’ve been right there we’ve just refused to make the final move

I feel ya if they can pull it off I’m down. I think the only reason why ppl want Jimmy out is because they feel there’s no hope to make a move that will put us over the hump with the herro/ roster situation. But who knows maybe they can pull something off.

I don't want Jimmy out ... unless he demands an extension and won't take no for an answer. I'm perfectly happy trying to make a run with him against next year.