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Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games…

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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#181 » by fishfuego. » Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:03 pm

MHeat0279 wrote:
oreon wrote:
HEATVols865 wrote:
Everyone told Spo he’s great and he truly believes it.


But he is. He's widely accepted as the best coach in the league. Name another coach who takes this team to 3 ECF and 2 finals


No coach can do that, not even Spo. The players can get you there if they play a working system, i have seen Spo's rotations destroy a winnable game multiple times, not a horrible coach but not a brilliant one either. And still a bunch of you get hanged up about our trips to the finals as if it was a given we would be there in the first place, this team was horrible during the season, and if not for a miracle of our scrubs hitting the 3 ball like snipers we would have been done way short of reaching the finals.

I agree here.
Jimmy went into God mode in a series, while Vincent and Caleb took turns shooting 3s in the following series. Hardly a coaching wizardry, but mediocre players playing above their pay rate. Just imagine if Jimmy doesn’t play in God mode or the “ scrubs” remain true to their form, how round one exit would’ve been the memorabilia.

Imo, Spo is a bit above mediocre, but the league’s lack of good/great coaches inflates his rep. His rotations my goodness :nonono:
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#182 » by contract » Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:47 pm

fishfuego. wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
oreon wrote:
But he is. He's widely accepted as the best coach in the league. Name another coach who takes this team to 3 ECF and 2 finals


No coach can do that, not even Spo. The players can get you there if they play a working system, i have seen Spo's rotations destroy a winnable game multiple times, not a horrible coach but not a brilliant one either. And still a bunch of you get hanged up about our trips to the finals as if it was a given we would be there in the first place, this team was horrible during the season, and if not for a miracle of our scrubs hitting the 3 ball like snipers we would have been done way short of reaching the finals.

I agree here.
Jimmy went into God mode in a series, while Vincent and Caleb took turns shooting 3s in the following series. Hardly a coaching wizardry, but mediocre players playing above their pay rate. Just imagine if Jimmy doesn’t play in God mode or the “ scrubs” remain true to their form, how round one exit would’ve been the memorabilia.

Imo, Spo is a bit above mediocre, but the league’s lack of good/great coaches inflates his rep. His rotations my goodness :nonono:

When something keeps happening it is not an accident or a coincidence.

Spo consistently adds value to the roster. Very few coaches can do that. If Spo is just a bit above mediocre and only looks good because the rest of the NBA (the top basketball league in the world) is full of lesser coaches ... you may want to consider that it's your perception of what makes a coach great that is skewed.

If Spo isn't a great coach, then there are no great coaches.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#183 » by QUIZ » Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:19 pm

I said before the season that we had a brutal schedule to start with 4 games in 6 nights including games vs the Celtics and the Bucks along with a back to back.

Well we’re 1-2 through the first three games with the Bucks coming up on Monday. While Jimmy will probably be back, I doubt we’re getting any of our other guys back for them. Looks like we may very well start the year off 1-3
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#184 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:24 pm

Really pleased with Niko and JJJ yesterday. Spo killed the momentum of this game over doing it with the lineup of Duncan and Cain. He just can't help himself with his rotations. Would like to see Niko cemented into the starting lineup with Butler and Bam. Sure he made some mistakes defensively yesterday but the only way to learn is through trial and error and what he brings on the offensive side to this team is way more higher upside then anyone else. Also loved the way he was rebounding yesterday alleviating our size issue. Spo needs to stop dicking this kid around and let him grow with the starting unit.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#185 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:30 pm

Not much to take away from last night really, Bam Herro and a bunch of scrubs, not much they can do with that.

I knew best case starting out we’d be 2-3, we’ll see if we can finally beat the Nets game 5.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#186 » by carnageta » Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:39 pm

3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#187 » by Bourne85 » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:01 pm

carnageta wrote:3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.


Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#188 » by AirP. » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:10 pm

Bourne85 wrote:
carnageta wrote:3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.


Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

No, not at all. The FO knows their boundaries with the salary cap and with that have made a few overpayments, decided to take a pass on some players (Beal) and since Butler's been in Miami refuse to give up 1st round picks to round out the roster or remove some real issues they created like Robinson's contract, Lowry's expiring contract and in my opinion Herro's contract (had they waited they could have gotten him for much less this offseason... note A.Reeves on a great value contract eve if you think he's not nearly as good), worst case scenario they could have matched at a little more then what he's getting now.

The FO has FU this roster, they are on year 5 with Butler and only acquired a past his prime Lowry and a damaged goods Oladipo or just year 4 after Bam, Butler and Dragic powered them to the Finals with no real significant moves.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#189 » by Bourne85 » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:16 pm

AirP. wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:
carnageta wrote:3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.


Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

No, not at all. The FO knows their boundaries with the salary cap and with that have made a few overpayments, decided to take a pass on some players (Beal) and since Butler's been in Miami refuse to give up 1st round picks to round out the roster or remove some real issues they created like Robinson's contract, Lowry's expiring contract and in my opinion Herro's contract (had they waited they could have gotten him for much less this offseason... note A.Reeves on a great value contract eve if you think he's not nearly as good), worst case scenario they could have matched at a little more then what he's getting now.

The FO has FU this roster, they are on year 5 with Butler and only acquired a past his prime Lowry and a damaged goods Oladipo or just year 4 after Bam, Butler and Dragic powered them to the Finals with no real significant moves.


Yes like I said, a cheap moron. And Riley dumb as hell too signing off on overpaid signings like Lowry. Giving one dimensional shooter like Drob 90mil when no one has even bid against us. Paying Herro early when he hasn’t earned it. The team has been handled very poorly for some time which makes our finals trips with Jimmy even more impressive. Get Jimmy some damn Help already my god, no wonder he sitting out 2 games into the season
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#190 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:17 pm

Imagine if we had Beal and KP right now :o

That deal would’ve been amazing for us and had a much longer useful life than Dame. I will say I was always team Dame though
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#191 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:18 pm

AirP. wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:
carnageta wrote:3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.


Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

No, not at all. The FO knows their boundaries with the salary cap and with that have made a few overpayments, decided to take a pass on some players (Beal) and since Butler's been in Miami refuse to give up 1st round picks to round out the roster or remove some real issues they created like Robinson's contract, Lowry's expiring contract and in my opinion Herro's contract (had they waited they could have gotten him for much less this offseason... note A.Reeves on a great value contract eve if you think he's not nearly as good), worst case scenario they could have matched at a little more then what he's getting now.

The FO has FU this roster, they are on year 5 with Butler and only acquired a past his prime Lowry and a damaged goods Oladipo or just year 4 after Bam, Butler and Dragic powered them to the Finals with no real significant moves.


Our success has given them a false sense that we don’t need more when in reality we do, not too much, but we do need more.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#192 » by Bourne85 » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:24 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:
Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

No, not at all. The FO knows their boundaries with the salary cap and with that have made a few overpayments, decided to take a pass on some players (Beal) and since Butler's been in Miami refuse to give up 1st round picks to round out the roster or remove some real issues they created like Robinson's contract, Lowry's expiring contract and in my opinion Herro's contract (had they waited they could have gotten him for much less this offseason... note A.Reeves on a great value contract eve if you think he's not nearly as good), worst case scenario they could have matched at a little more then what he's getting now.

The FO has FU this roster, they are on year 5 with Butler and only acquired a past his prime Lowry and a damaged goods Oladipo or just year 4 after Bam, Butler and Dragic powered them to the Finals with no real significant moves.


Our success has given them a false sense that we don’t need more when in reality we do, not too much, but we do need more.


I would argue we need a lot more. Boston and Milwaukee loaded up. Denver annihilated us. Anything short of a scoring superstar will not be enough
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#193 » by AirP. » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:37 pm

Bourne85 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:
Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

No, not at all. The FO knows their boundaries with the salary cap and with that have made a few overpayments, decided to take a pass on some players (Beal) and since Butler's been in Miami refuse to give up 1st round picks to round out the roster or remove some real issues they created like Robinson's contract, Lowry's expiring contract and in my opinion Herro's contract (had they waited they could have gotten him for much less this offseason... note A.Reeves on a great value contract eve if you think he's not nearly as good), worst case scenario they could have matched at a little more then what he's getting now.

The FO has FU this roster, they are on year 5 with Butler and only acquired a past his prime Lowry and a damaged goods Oladipo or just year 4 after Bam, Butler and Dragic powered them to the Finals with no real significant moves.


Yes like I said, a cheap moron. And Riley dumb as hell too signing off on overpaid signings like Lowry. Giving one dimensional shooter like Drob 90mil when no one has even bid against us. Paying Herro early when he hasn’t earned it. The team has been handled very poorly for some time which makes our finals trips with Jimmy even more impressive. Get Jimmy some damn Help already my god, no wonder he sitting out 2 games into the season

Cheap? He's spending up to the tax and even into the tax this year. There are owners who won't do that and quite frankly unless you're just raking in the money like some of the bigger markets you probably shouldn't do that.

If I'm an owner and seen the mess the FO has made, I sure wouldn't say yeah, I'll give you even more money to fix this or retain talent with Lowry, Robinson and even Herro making around 75 million of the cap and having Dru Smith a possible starter if Lowry twists his ankle in warmups. This is one year after the owner looking at the PF position and saying, shouldn't we have a PF on the team?

Beal could have easily been on this team, he had the NTC, he could veto any trade offered (really meaning Miami or bust) and Washington wanted him gone. Beal called Miami and said lets do it, IT WAS ALL RIGHT THERE. Lowry + Robinson and a 1st or 2, Robinson, Herro and a 1st <- that would have been my pick and let Lowry just expire, roll with the 2 rookie contract guys, sign Cain to a cheap 2+1, move Martin for another asset or a solid player with a value contract for 2-3 years.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#194 » by AirP. » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:40 pm

Bourne85 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
AirP. wrote:No, not at all. The FO knows their boundaries with the salary cap and with that have made a few overpayments, decided to take a pass on some players (Beal) and since Butler's been in Miami refuse to give up 1st round picks to round out the roster or remove some real issues they created like Robinson's contract, Lowry's expiring contract and in my opinion Herro's contract (had they waited they could have gotten him for much less this offseason... note A.Reeves on a great value contract eve if you think he's not nearly as good), worst case scenario they could have matched at a little more then what he's getting now.

The FO has FU this roster, they are on year 5 with Butler and only acquired a past his prime Lowry and a damaged goods Oladipo or just year 4 after Bam, Butler and Dragic powered them to the Finals with no real significant moves.


Our success has given them a false sense that we don’t need more when in reality we do, not too much, but we do need more.


I would argue we need a lot more. Boston and Milwaukee loaded up. Denver annihilated us. Anything short of a scoring superstar will not be enough

Like Beal who scored 30 a season for 2 seasons when Washington didn't have other scoring options... kinda like what Miami's regular season team looks like before Butler goes all out(if he goes all out in the playoffs)?

I don't get the NTC issue for Miami other than it was an excuse, at the end of his contract Beal was going to be the same age Lillard is currently.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#195 » by AirP. » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:57 pm

Moved to the regular season thread.
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Here.. have something insane. Only Doncic and D.Fox have more FGA per game because they put up a lot of shots in games they scored 30+ in. Herro's TS% is currently .477 which is 151st in the league and amazinging tied with J.Poole.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#196 » by Johnny Fontane » Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:03 pm

Bourne85 wrote:
carnageta wrote:3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.


Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

This is why the team is likely just going to let Lowry expire after this season rather than trade him. Arison wants to get as far away from paying that extra money as possible
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#197 » by AirP. » Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:04 pm

Pharenheit wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:
carnageta wrote:3 games into the season and people already turning on Spo. If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.

You gotta love it.


Yup, it’s all misguided. The only guy to blame here is the cheap ass owner that signs the checks. Guy didn’t want Beal, didn’t want Lillard unless Portland took all our bad contracts, I’m sure he wants nothing to do with Harden either. Even when we had the big 3 this moron was amnestying players hoping to save a buc here and there. Guy is a cheap ass period.

Don’t be surprised when the only moves we make this season will be to save money and back out of the tax.

This is why the team is likely just going to let Lowry expire after this season rather than trade him. Arison wants to get as far away from paying that extra money as possible

Right because he'd be giving the FO who created this mess more money, who's to say they wouldn't create a bigger problem? The FO was given a get out of jail card by acquiring Butler so cheap and having Bam on a rookie level contract, that was 5 offseason ago, look where they are now and you want to give them more money?
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#198 » by DayofMourning » Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:05 am

Spo builds the depth of the roster by playing everyone a bit longer than wed like. Hes looking at the bigger picture. Have capable bodies in the rotation. Guys who could fill in when someone goes down. He takes projects and helps them get better.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#199 » by Pokuokic » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:04 am

For me I can't tell the difference between a good/bad coach, I remember everyone saying that Popovich could coach a team of bench players (during his Duncan/Manu/Parker/Lenoard/Robinson tenure) to the NBA playoffs and than he couldn't make the playoffs without at least 2 Allstars (Aldridge/DeRozan) and his teams have sucked for ages now. 95% of coaches just don't have the pieces to win anything over there entire careers.

Mike Malone prior to Jokic exploding in Denver had Sacramento where he had a horrific record with a low IQ version of Jokic in Cousins. To me GM's win championships through luck (e.g drafting Jokic or Spurs Manu/Parker who Popovich didn't want to play/Toronto getting Kawahi because the Spurs didn't take the best offer from the Lakers/Pistons snagging Rasheed Wallace for nothing) and putting together good rosters and not overspending on average players.
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Re: Heat @ Timberwolves - 10/28 @8pm - Jimmy resting after 2 games… 

Post#200 » by contract » Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:58 am

Pokuokic wrote:For me I can't tell the difference between a good/bad coach, I remember everyone saying that Popovich could coach a team of bench players (during his Duncan/Manu/Parker/Lenoard/Robinson tenure) to the NBA playoffs and than he couldn't make the playoffs without at least 2 Allstars (Aldridge/DeRozan) and his teams have sucked for ages now. 95% of coaches just don't have the pieces to win anything over there entire careers.

Mike Malone prior to Jokic exploding in Denver had Sacramento where he had a horrific record with a low IQ version of Jokic in Cousins. To me GM's win championships through luck (e.g drafting Jokic or Spurs Manu/Parker who Popovich didn't want to play/Toronto getting Kawahi because the Spurs didn't take the best offer from the Lakers/Pistons snagging Rasheed Wallace for nothing) and putting together good rosters and not overspending on average players.

Ignore hyperbole. Pop is a good coach, but even the best coaches aren't really miracle workers. Talent matters more than anything else. That's why Spo gets so much credit. He performs minor miracles magic illusions regularly.

That (obviously) doesn't mean that he always wins, or that he always would with enough talent. His best attribute is really figuring out ways for lesser players to make positive contributions. He probably does that better than anybody. The problem is that Pat is now expecting him to do that with 4 or 5 guys every season instead of 1 or 2 or 3.
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