Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 2.0

[Pokuokic]

Why would the Hawks want Herro playing next to Trae (terrible fit) when Bogdanovic is like a bigger/smarter/more effective shooter. Trading Herro for Murray is a horrible trade for the Hawks, only way Murray is coming to Miami is for a deal around JJJ (would not do) or some sort of 3 team deal.

The Lakers package is even more trash but honestly the Orlando Magic should be trying for him they need a PG as well.

[SerialChiller]

I honestly think I'm at a point where I'd rather trade Herro than Duncan lol. At least Duncan rarely misses time and fits in any lineup. Herro is kind of out of place with the starters and doesn't want to play off the bench where he'd best help the team.

Read on Twitter

If you traded Herro for someone like a Murray and starter Duncan the boost to this team would be massive. Our best stretch of the season came without Herro. Every single season when Herro goes down and we’re forced to start a 3 point specialist (Strus/Duncan) this team instantly gets better and puts up their best stretch, like last season going from a play in team to the nba finals. Herro coming off the bench and we’re the 1st seed a couple seasons ago. Herro sprains his ankle and we go on the longest win streak in years this season and win like 10 out of 11 games.

It has happened far too many times to be a coincidence. I think there are still people who refuse to see it but I think even the majority who didn’t want to believe it at first have now seen it too many times to know it’s the truth at this point.

Yep Duncan is clearly a better fit in the starting lineup and you can't have them both defensively. Yeah Herro can shoot 3s but he doesn't do it off catch and shoots or within the flow of the offense, he usually just decides to jack them up whenever he wants. His playmaking is not very good as well and he kills ball movement. That's why he's suited to be a 6th man but paid like a star and expects to start. I'm ready to part with him for sure.

[RexBoyWonder]

Damn some of you aew really down on Herro.

He's still just 23YO.

I think his improvment on defefnse is real and is very important.
I think his floor game is also improving, although he'll never be an elite playmaker or creator.

But with a better PG next to him (Lowry's usage is a joke) he can be more selective, have lower useage and up his efficency.

Basically he need to move a notch towards Klay Thompson style and move away from the Curry style.

He's not making max money. If he continues to improve on D and adjust his role, he can be a big part of this team. He's just not suitable to be the main creator.

[iamoti]

I've always been a Herro fan and still am but i can't ignore the fact he has worse chemistry with Bam than Duncan and he is the most replaceable guy on our roster.

A lineup of Murray/Duncan/Butler/Caleb or Highsmith or Jovic/Bam is deadly

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[dshearn]

I've always been a Herro fan and still am but i can't ignore the fact he has worse chemistry with Bam than Duncan and he is the most replaceable guy on our roster.

A lineup of Murray/Duncan/Butler/Caleb or Highsmith or Jovic/Bam is deadly

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I love Herro...but yeah man....it is what it is....


I don't think even the Jimmy iso fits the stuff we have seen with Bam/Jovic/JJJ. but I have a lot more faith in Jimmy picking his spots than I do Herro at this point.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would assume fans think Herro has to change...and the trade Herro stuff is people voicing their optimism, or lack of, that he can find a way to fit what is being done on the floor.


I am not a trade people kind of fan, but...... I think we should prioritize the Bam/Jovic/JJJ core....with Duncan. He just fits that trio.

[twix2500]

Miami Heat vs Orlando with Highsmith and Martin replacing Herro's mins

Team
108.5.8 OffRtg, DefRtg 104.3, +4.4 Net

Adebayo
117.6 OffRtg, 92.1 DefRtg, +25.5 Net

D. Robinson
114.1 OffRtg, 95.0 DefRtg, +19.1 Net





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[BFRESH44]

I can assure you the fan’s perception of Herro is not in line at all the Miami Heat’s front office. Spo included. The kid isn’t going anywhere unless it’s in a package for an All NBA player. And that’s the bottom line.

[BBallFreak]

Damn some of you aew really down on Herro.

He's still just 23YO.

I think his improvment on defefnse is real and is very important.
I think his floor game is also improving, although he'll never be an elite playmaker or creator.

But with a better PG next to him (Lowry's usage is a joke) he can be more selective, have lower useage and up his efficency.

Basically he need to move a notch towards Klay Thompson style and move away from the Curry style.

He's not making max money. If he continues to improve on D and adjust his role, he can be a big part of this team. He's just not suitable to be the main creator.

You have to give to get and he's a fairly valuable piece which is why you have to consider him, but when you figure that Duncan Robinson steps up his game to such an extreme degree as a starter and fits so seamlessly, while not really even hurting our depth (Richardson, Martin, Jaquez, Butler, Robinson, and Highsmith as wing depth) it makes sense to look at him.

Herro and two firsts with swaps might allow us to get a player like Murray, while not giving Jovic and JJJ, in a three team trade while not hurting our long term salary cap table.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Like someone mentioned. The Hawks don’t need Herro. It was the same concept when we tried to push Herro to the Blazers on his contract when they already had a signed Simons at the same position. They have Bogi and trying to find time to get Bufkin in the lineup. Herro is another bad fit with Trae Young. Hawks would probably go for the Lakers pieces instead.

[BBallFreak]

Like someone mentioned. The Hawks don’t need Herro. It was the same concept when we tried to push Herro to the Blazers on his contract when they already had a signed Simons at the same position. They have Bogi and trying to find time to get Bufkin in the lineup. Also another ill fit with Trae Young. Hawks would probably go for the Lakers pieces instead.

Which is why I suggested the idea of a three team trade. And I'm not even sold on it being Murray we acquire, I just think Herro makes a certain amount of sense to move on from, considering his injuries, Robinson's ability to slot in, and the fact that we want to keep both Jovic and JJJ.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Herro on the other hand would probably be welcomed with open arms by the Hornets for Rozier. He’ll be a great fit with Ball in the backcourt and would reunite with his friend PJ Washington.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Herro on the other hand would probably be welcomed with open arms by the Hornets for Rozier. He’ll be a great fit with Ball in the backcourt and would reunite with his friend PJ Washington.

Does that trade make sense for the Heat though? Rozier is pushing 30.

[Beenie]

Damn some of you aew really down on Herro.

He's still just 23YO.

I think his improvment on defefnse is real and is very important.
I think his floor game is also improving, although he'll never be an elite playmaker or creator.

But with a better PG next to him (Lowry's usage is a joke) he can be more selective, have lower useage and up his efficency.

Basically he need to move a notch towards Klay Thompson style and move away from the Curry style.

He's not making max money. If he continues to improve on D and adjust his role, he can be a big part of this team. He's just not suitable to be the main creator.

Mia created a monster in allowing him to play on ball as much as he has.

Unrealistic to try and unmilk the cow at this point which would mean moving him back to the bench.

So long as Herro is a starter, the team will be stylistically compromised.

[SerialChiller]

Herro on the other hand would probably be welcomed with open arms by the Hornets for Rozier. He’ll be a great fit with Ball in the backcourt and would reunite with his friend PJ Washington.

Yeah I'd pull the trigger on that so fast, it works straight up too and does make plenty of sense for both teams.

[greg4012]

On most nights, Bam as the number 3 scorer yielding to a legit number 2 would be best for the team Imo.

It’d up to Jimmy and the #2 guy to not only carry the scoring load but to also involve Bam and get him easier buckets.

So Murray as the #2. If that's the commitment and goal then its worth it. Tyler would drop to a specialist 4th or 5th guy. Seeing Tyler compete for 10 shots a game with Jaquez would have his fan base revolting

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Murray’s not that guy imo, it would be Jimmy as number 1 and then Bam/Murray/Herro on any given night. If you want a clear cut number 2 to Jimmy then we need to aggressively go after Mitchell, not trying to completely fleece the Cavs in the process.

The hope would be that Murray would be focused first and foremost on setting the table for the offense. That would allow every player to slot into more natural roles and would inherently level out some of the FGA and shot diet.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Herro on the other hand would probably be welcomed with open arms by the Hornets for Rozier. He’ll be a great fit with Ball in the backcourt and would reunite with his friend PJ Washington.

Does that trade make sense for the Heat though? Rozier is pushing 30.

Maybe or maybe not. I think both teams would have to work around picks and maybe some other players included. The Martin brother coming back here would pretty much seal the deal of Caleb coming back.

[VaDe255]

This whole Duncan vs Herro thing is so backwards it hurts my brain:

- First of all Herro is just getting 24y and Duncan is 29y
- Duncan's ceiling we already know, it is role player
- Herro's ceiling isn't known, players still significantly improve from age 24 onwards, until they reach their peak around 26-28

I much rather invest into the 24y old, who already is a better player, than the 29y old. They aren't trading Tyler for role players or marinal older upgrades, if someone gets traded in those kind of trades it will be Duncan.

The second part:

- Duncan gets to play with Jimmy/Bam and can comfortably slide into a role of a 3rd banana, getting easy shots, while Jimmy/Bam draw most of the attention
- Tyler comes back and Jimmy goes out, now Tyler is the guy who does a lot of playmaking, draws double teams and has to create offense

Lets look at the stats of the last 10 games:

Duncan: 30 mins, 13.1 pts (54.7% TS), 2.3 rebs, 3.1 asts, 1 stls, 1.3 tos
Tyler: 34.6 mins, 21.8 pts (53.1% TS), 5.8 rebs, 4.7 asts, 1.2 stls, 2.3 tos

They both play a similiar amount of minutes, but Tyler is much more productive, has the primary ball handler role. Duncan is marginally more effective in his role player role, than Tyler is as a primary ball handler and playmaker.

Yesterdays game vs Orlando pretty much showed they were missing the playmkaing of Tyler and the attention that he draws. The whole team had 16 turnovers and only 23 assists (Duncan went 3 asts/3tos, had an ok shooting night though).

There is no way I'm giving Duncan the starter spot, because he is good as a role player. Tyler is the guy who needs to learn how to play smarter, lean more on his playmaking skills and take fewer bad shots (he is 5.2 asts/1.5tos in his last 6 games, I hope the trend continues). It will lift the potential of the whole team and his own, he can easily play the same role player role as Duncan, but he has the potential to be more.

[twix2500]

This whole Duncan vs Herro thing is so backwards it hurts my brain:

- First of all Herro is just getting 24y and Duncan is 29y
- Duncan's ceiling we already know, it is role player
- Herro's ceiling isn't known, players still significantly improve from age 24 onwards, until they reach their peak around 26-28

I much rather invest into the 24y old, who already is a better player, than the 29y old. They aren't trading Tyler for role players or marinal older upgrades, if someone gets traded in those kind of trades it will be Duncan.

The second part:

- Duncan gets to play with Jimmy/Bam and can comfortably slide into a role of a 3rd banana, getting easy shots, while Jimmy/Bam draw most of the attention
- Tyler comes back and Jimmy goes out, now Tyler is the guy who does a lot of playmaking, draws double teams and has to create offense

Lets look at the stats of the last 10 games:

Duncan: 30 mins, 13.1 pts (54.7% TS), 2.3 rebs, 3.1 asts, 1 stls, 1.3 tos
Tyler: 34.6 mins, 21.8 pts (53.1% TS), 5.8 rebs, 4.7 asts, 1.2 stls, 2.3 tos

They both play a similiar amount of minutes, but Tyler is much more productive, has the primary ball handler role. Duncan is marginally more effective in his role player role, than Tyler is as a primary ball handler and playmaker.

Yesterdays game vs Orlando pretty much showed they were missing the playmkaing of Tyler and the attention that he draws. The whole team had 16 turnovers and only 23 assists (Duncan went 3 asts/3tos, had an ok shooting night though).

There is no way I'm giving Duncan the starter spot, because he is good as a role player. Tyler is the guy who needs to learn how to play smarter, lean more on his playmaking skills and take fewer bad shots (he is 5.2 asts/1.5tos in his last 6 games, I hope the trend continues). It will lift the potential of the whole team and his own, he can easily play the same role player role as Duncan, but he has the potential to be more.

ceiling means potential which also means talent

Unknown ceiling either means one can't evaluate Herros potential or he has unlimited potential. I doubt either is fact. By the time a player gets to college most understands a players potential.

Age is only an estimate time for a player to reach his potential before his body starts to breakdown

players everywhere are evaluated based on if his potential (ie ceiling) is worth the wait (age).

I think some are trying to use the term ceiling in place of destiny. That's not what a players ceiling means

[VaDe255]

ceiling means potential which also means talent

Unknown ceiling either means one can't evaluate Herros potential or he has unlimited potential. I doubt either is fact. By the time a player gets to college most understands a players potential.

Age is only an estimate time for a player to reach his potential before his body starts to breakdown

players everywhere are evaluated based on if his potential (ie ceiling) is worth the wait (age).

I think some are trying to use the term ceiling in place of destiny. That's not what a players ceiling means

I see your point about "ceiling" being an indicator of a player's potential, but I think there's more nuance to it, especially when discussing young athletes like Tyler Herro. The concept of a player's ceiling being well understood by college is a bit of an oversimplification. There are countless examples of players who have far exceeded their perceived potential from their college days, as well as those who have fallen short.

When we talk about an "unknown ceiling," it's not just about an inability to evaluate a player's potential. It's about acknowledging the unpredictable nature of human development, especially in sports. A player might have a set of skills or physical attributes that suggest a certain trajectory, but their work ethic, mental toughness, adaptability to higher levels of play, environment, mentors, coaches and even luck (when it comes to injuries), play huge roles in their eventual success.

[BBallFreak]

This whole Duncan vs Herro thing is so backwards it hurts my brain:

- First of all Herro is just getting 24y and Duncan is 29y
- Duncan's ceiling we already know, it is role player
- Herro's ceiling isn't known, players still significantly improve from age 24 onwards, until they reach their peak around 26-28

I much rather invest into the 24y old, who already is a better player, than the 29y old. They aren't trading Tyler for role players or marinal older upgrades, if someone gets traded in those kind of trades it will be Duncan.

The second part:

- Duncan gets to play with Jimmy/Bam and can comfortably slide into a role of a 3rd banana, getting easy shots, while Jimmy/Bam draw most of the attention
- Tyler comes back and Jimmy goes out, now Tyler is the guy who does a lot of playmaking, draws double teams and has to create offense

Lets look at the stats of the last 10 games:

Duncan: 30 mins, 13.1 pts (54.7% TS), 2.3 rebs, 3.1 asts, 1 stls, 1.3 tos
Tyler: 34.6 mins, 21.8 pts (53.1% TS), 5.8 rebs, 4.7 asts, 1.2 stls, 2.3 tos

They both play a similiar amount of minutes, but Tyler is much more productive, has the primary ball handler role. Duncan is marginally more effective in his role player role, than Tyler is as a primary ball handler and playmaker.

Yesterdays game vs Orlando pretty much showed they were missing the playmkaing of Tyler and the attention that he draws. The whole team had 16 turnovers and only 23 assists (Duncan went 3 asts/3tos, had an ok shooting night though).

There is no way I'm giving Duncan the starter spot, because he is good as a role player. Tyler is the guy who needs to learn how to play smarter, lean more on his playmaking skills and take fewer bad shots (he is 5.2 asts/1.5tos in his last 6 games, I hope the trend continues). It will lift the potential of the whole team and his own, he can easily play the same role player role as Duncan, but he has the potential to be more.

This isn't Herro vs. Duncan though, this is Herro leading to an upgrade at a different position because Duncan is good enough to take his spot. That doesn't mean he's as good, it just means he can start without killing us.