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**NBA Draft Discussion 2024**

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#421 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:56 am

lastb1ckman wrote:Man after that game, and missing Delon just makes me just want to get it over with and draft Devin Carter. Having another ball handler and perimeter defender especially when the vets are down would do us so good. Hell, any of the pgs would help, even though I don't think Collier would be playing outside the g league next year.

Definitely need to go guard with the pick. Especially one that can play defense and score to complement the weak spots of Herro and Rozier. This is why I really like Carter
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#422 » by DayofMourning » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:01 am

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:Man after that game, and missing Delon just makes me just want to get it over with and draft Devin Carter. Having another ball handler and perimeter defender especially when the vets are down would do us so good. Hell, any of the pgs would help, even though I don't think Collier would be playing outside the g league next year.

Definitely need to go guard with the pick. Especially one that can play defense and score to complement the weak spots of Herro and Rozier. This is why I really like Carter


BPA. I have no idea who that is though. Super hazy.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#423 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:02 am

DayofMourning wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:Man after that game, and missing Delon just makes me just want to get it over with and draft Devin Carter. Having another ball handler and perimeter defender especially when the vets are down would do us so good. Hell, any of the pgs would help, even though I don't think Collier would be playing outside the g league next year.

Definitely need to go guard with the pick. Especially one that can play defense and score to complement the weak spots of Herro and Rozier. This is why I really like Carter


BPA. I have no idea who that is though. Super hazy.

Guards will be BPA at 15 imo
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#424 » by DayofMourning » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:09 am

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Definitely need to go guard with the pick. Especially one that can play defense and score to complement the weak spots of Herro and Rozier. This is why I really like Carter


BPA. I have no idea who that is though. Super hazy.

Guards will be BPA at 15 imo


With Spos stupid small ball ass, Im thinking TDS.

I like dude a lot, but it will continue our size deficit.

I want to win rebounding. I want to have an offensive option other than 1spam 3s and hope for the best.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#425 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:20 am

DayofMourning wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
BPA. I have no idea who that is though. Super hazy.

Guards will be BPA at 15 imo


With Spos stupid small ball ass, Im thinking TDS.

I like dude a lot, but it will continue our size deficit.

I want to win rebounding. I want to have an offensive option other than 1spam 3s and hope for the best.

I like da Silva a lot as well. 6’9 230 would be an ideal addition but not sure a front court of Jovic and da Silva would work for defenses purposes. I could see us signing a vet on the cheap to backup Jovic that fits our scheme. Maybe a Royce O’Neale or Daniel Theis.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#426 » by IceColdCubano » Tue Apr 30, 2024 11:13 am

I don't think it matters who we draft from a position of need, I think they go best available, I say this because, positionally Miami won't be throwing this player out there in the upcoming season. I believe they'll get some vets at positions of needs to keep the Jimmy window somewhat open and try again next year. Playing another young player is an investment they may not be able to do next season hoping to squeeze the most out of what's left of Jimmy Butler build.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#427 » by Wiltside » Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:03 pm

Could Devin Carter be our Derrick White?
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#428 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:51 pm

Team: Providence

Position: PG/SG

Size: 6'3", 195 lbs

Wingspan: 6’9”

Age/Year: 22, Junior

Nationality: American

Pro Comparison: Derrick White

Devin Carter was quick to announce his decision to enter the draft after a breakout year showing significant offensive improvement, a needle-mover for one of the nation's top perimeter defenders.

He closed the year with another outstanding performance, putting up 27 points on 14 shots against Marquette.

Regardless of the scoring outbursts this year, he's going to earn NBA minutes and paychecks off versatility and intangibles. For a 6'3" guard, the 32 blocked shots and 8.7 rebounds per game are telling.

Unteachable defensive intensity, toughness and instincts separate Carter and fuel his identity, though he's entered the lottery conversation by developing into a dangerous shot-maker and crafty pick-and-roll ball-handler.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#429 » by Wiltside » Tue Apr 30, 2024 1:19 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Team: Providence

Position: PG/SG

Size: 6'3", 195 lbs

Wingspan: 6’9”

Age/Year: 22, Junior

Nationality: American

Pro Comparison: Derrick White

Devin Carter was quick to announce his decision to enter the draft after a breakout year showing significant offensive improvement, a needle-mover for one of the nation's top perimeter defenders.

He closed the year with another outstanding performance, putting up 27 points on 14 shots against Marquette.

Regardless of the scoring outbursts this year, he's going to earn NBA minutes and paychecks off versatility and intangibles. For a 6'3" guard, the 32 blocked shots and 8.7 rebounds per game are telling.

Unteachable defensive intensity, toughness and instincts separate Carter and fuel his identity, though he's entered the lottery conversation by developing into a dangerous shot-maker and crafty pick-and-roll ball-handler.


Plays tough defense. 3&D. Good size and wingspan. Rebounds.

If he’s anywhere near the pain in the ass that Derrick White is, he’s a keeper.

Plus they both can be receding hairline brothers. That flowing mane can’t fool me. I’ve seen your Dad.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#430 » by RexBoyWonder » Tue Apr 30, 2024 1:25 pm

Bam is our only building block, and even he can be moved from C to PF for the right player.

So BPA for sure, nobody else's place is set in stone.

Best player available with emphasis on highest offensive upside.

We've been a drag to watch, and we're being left behind with our low scoring schemes. It's time to modernize our approach and style.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#431 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:16 pm

Wiltside wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Team: Providence

Position: PG/SG

Size: 6'3", 195 lbs

Wingspan: 6’9”

Age/Year: 22, Junior

Nationality: American

Pro Comparison: Derrick White

Devin Carter was quick to announce his decision to enter the draft after a breakout year showing significant offensive improvement, a needle-mover for one of the nation's top perimeter defenders.

He closed the year with another outstanding performance, putting up 27 points on 14 shots against Marquette.

Regardless of the scoring outbursts this year, he's going to earn NBA minutes and paychecks off versatility and intangibles. For a 6'3" guard, the 32 blocked shots and 8.7 rebounds per game are telling.

Unteachable defensive intensity, toughness and instincts separate Carter and fuel his identity, though he's entered the lottery conversation by developing into a dangerous shot-maker and crafty pick-and-roll ball-handler.


Plays tough defense. 3&D. Good size and wingspan. Rebounds.

If he’s anywhere near the pain in the ass that Derrick White is, he’s a keeper.

Plus they both can be receding hairline brothers. That flowing mane can’t fool me. I’ve seen your Dad.

He played and scored against some top notch defenses in the big east but some in here think he can't score but yet look at Terrence Shannon Jr who abuses the Colgate's of the world but goes 2 for 12 against Uconn in the Elite 8. The way some see Devin Carter is just type casting him because his old man was a Heat Jag.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#432 » by RexBoyWonder » Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:31 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Wiltside wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Team: Providence

Position: PG/SG

Size: 6'3", 195 lbs

Wingspan: 6’9”

Age/Year: 22, Junior

Nationality: American

Pro Comparison: Derrick White

Devin Carter was quick to announce his decision to enter the draft after a breakout year showing significant offensive improvement, a needle-mover for one of the nation's top perimeter defenders.

He closed the year with another outstanding performance, putting up 27 points on 14 shots against Marquette.

Regardless of the scoring outbursts this year, he's going to earn NBA minutes and paychecks off versatility and intangibles. For a 6'3" guard, the 32 blocked shots and 8.7 rebounds per game are telling.

Unteachable defensive intensity, toughness and instincts separate Carter and fuel his identity, though he's entered the lottery conversation by developing into a dangerous shot-maker and crafty pick-and-roll ball-handler.


Plays tough defense. 3&D. Good size and wingspan. Rebounds.

If he’s anywhere near the pain in the ass that Derrick White is, he’s a keeper.

Plus they both can be receding hairline brothers. That flowing mane can’t fool me. I’ve seen your Dad.

He played and scored against some top notch defenses in the big east but some in here think he can't score but yet look at Terrence Shannon Jr who abuses the Colgate's of the world but goes 2 for 12 against Uconn in the Elite 8. The way some see Devin Carter is just type casting him because his old man was a Heat Jag.



It's not because of his dad, it's because :

1) He's tiny.

2) He's average to below average athletically compared to high tier PGs.

3) His shot looks broken, ugly mechanic and low FT % despite this being his 3rd year in college, also this year was the first year he shot above above 30% from 3, again this is his 3rd year. His jumper gives zero confidence he could shot NBA 3's consistently.

For a small unathletic guard, that's a death sentence. He's brings low upside with highish risk.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#433 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:44 pm

Isaiah Collier-6'5 with a 6'4 wingspan? We really don't need another 6'5 short armed guard. No wonder everyone grades him poorly on his defense.


Weaknesses
Collier’s shaky free-throw percentage (67.3%) and sub-level efficiency from the field (49% FG, 33.8% 3P) might be the thing that makes NBA scouts see him as too raw of a talent. While having the frame for a modern NBA guard, Collier’s short 6’4” wingspan isn’t ideal for his size. He’s still trying to improve his skills as a guard, recording 3.3 turnovers per game in his freshman year, which may not be optimal considering the Jazz are working on Keyonte’s playmaking at the same time. Given his tendency to drive to the paint as well as his low percentage from deep, NBA defenses are going to be prone to sag on him.



Weaknesses:
Size and Length: While 6'5" is good for a point guard, his 6'4" wingspan is not ideal relative to his size.

Shot Selection: Tends to seek contact on drives instead of opting for simpler finishes.

Shooting Consistency: Despite a solid 41.9% 3PT shooting in the EYBL 2022, he can be streaky from beyond the arc. Developing more consistent shooting is essential for sustained success at the NBA level.

Free Throw Shooting: Room for improvement in free throw shooting, recording 68.2% FT% over the Nike EYBL in 2022. Shot 50% FT% at the NBPA Top 100 in 2021.

Explosiveness: While a good athlete, not considered top-tier explosive.

Scoring Focus: Needs to diversify scoring abilities, as current strength leans heavily towards facilitating rather than scoring.

In summary, Isaiah Collier exhibits a compelling skill set, drawing comparisons to Chauncey Billups in my eyes, who won a finals MVP with Detroit in 2004. With strengths in size, athleticism, passing, scoring, and defense, he brings a well-rounded game to the court. However, addressing shooting consistency, free throws, and expanding scoring options will be crucial for continued success at the next level. His leadership qualities and basketball IQ make him a promising prospect with the potential to make a significant impact in the NBA.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#434 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:54 pm

I like Devin Carter a lot. I think he's more than just a good defender, I think he can be an impact guard defender and defensive playmaker in the NBA.

I have reservations about a lot of his offense translating to the NBA level. Despite PG size, I'm not sure he's shown much as a playmaker. His offensive output is all at the rim or at the 3 point line. He hasn't shown much in-between game Hopefully his 3 ball translates, but naturally there are some questions there. My guess is he will be a solid spot up 3-pt shooter but it's hard to predict he'll be anymore dynamic than that from 3. He is a linear driver that can get to the rim when he has a line drive, but he doesn't show much of navigating through defense or using footwork to get to the rim beyond straight drives.

That combination of questions and strengths on offense dictates to me that his archetype should not be expected to be a lead ballhandler or high usage offensive player. My expectation is he can be something like Josh Hart (more PG/SG than Hart's SG/SF).

I'm on board with Carter as the Heat's FRP (among others). But, I def don't see him as the answer to the scoring punch we need.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#435 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:01 pm

greg4012 wrote:I like Devin Carter a lot. I think he's more than just a good defender, I think he can be an impact guard defender and defensive playmaker in the NBA.

I have reservations about a lot of his offense translating to the NBA level. Despite PG size, I'm not sure he's shown much as a playmaker. His offensive output is all at the rim or at the 3 point line. He hasn't shown much in-between game Hopefully his 3 ball translates, but naturally there are some questions there. My guess is he will be a solid spot up 3-pt shooter but it's hard to predict he'll be anymore dynamic than that from 3. He is a linear driver that can get to the rim when he has a line drive, but he doesn't show much of navigating through defense or using footwork to get to the rim beyond straight drives.

That combination of questions and strengths on offense dictates to me that his archetype should not be expected to be a lead ballhandler or high usage offensive player. My expectation is he can be something like Josh Hart (more PG/SG than Hart's SG/SF).

I'm on board with Carter as the Heat's FRP (among others). But, I def don't see him as the answer to the scoring punch we need.

A player I can see Riley absolutely falling in love with as well is going to be Tyler Kolek. Don't think be brings anywhere near the defense of Carter but better shooter and passer.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#436 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:07 pm

Kel'el Ware only shooting a damn near 63% from the FT line. So many of these damn prospects can't shoot free throws.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#437 » by MettaWorldPanda » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:09 pm

Tristan da Silva shooting near 40% from 3 and 85% from the FT line. That's what I'm talking about.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#438 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:10 pm

Isaiah Collier is such a wild card. Dude is like a NFL RB playing PG. He undeniably can get into the paint and draw fouls at a rate that is special He's not just a blackhole flying to the rim, either. He flashes a lot of craft scoring in the paint and playmaking off his penetration--real PG and offensive engine stuff.

He also has warts on his profile and question marks that don't have clear answers, at all:

- His measurables are questionable--I bet he's shorter than 6'5 and he has a rumored 6'4 wingspan. Not great and really limits him mostly PG play. It will be interesting to see his actual measurables.

- He's extremely explosive on the ground--great acceleration--and has outstanding body control to find gaps to finish through the teeth of the defense, but he's kind of vertically challenged. He's mostly a below-the-rim player [hence him playing like a RB].

- He flashed a lot of exciting playmaking but also had a lot of sketchy turnovers. I'm OK to see that from a developing prospect as long as it comes with the real flashes. AND it's encouraging that he improved his A/TO numbers as the season went along.

Read on Twitter


- Building off of the above, I believe he has the strength, build, and mobility to be a positive defender, but his rumored short wingspan will cap some of his ability there.


Ultimately, I think getting to know the person behind the player will be critically important for front offices to buy into Collier's upside. That and some confidence that his shot can be improved and refined.

I'm def interested to learn more about Collier as the process goes on. His warts are concerning, but we wouldn't be able to talk about him as potentially being in Miami's range if they didn't exist.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#439 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:27 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
greg4012 wrote:I like Devin Carter a lot. I think he's more than just a good defender, I think he can be an impact guard defender and defensive playmaker in the NBA.

I have reservations about a lot of his offense translating to the NBA level. Despite PG size, I'm not sure he's shown much as a playmaker. His offensive output is all at the rim or at the 3 point line. He hasn't shown much in-between game Hopefully his 3 ball translates, but naturally there are some questions there. My guess is he will be a solid spot up 3-pt shooter but it's hard to predict he'll be anymore dynamic than that from 3. He is a linear driver that can get to the rim when he has a line drive, but he doesn't show much of navigating through defense or using footwork to get to the rim beyond straight drives.

That combination of questions and strengths on offense dictates to me that his archetype should not be expected to be a lead ballhandler or high usage offensive player. My expectation is he can be something like Josh Hart (more PG/SG than Hart's SG/SF).

I'm on board with Carter as the Heat's FRP (among others). But, I def don't see him as the answer to the scoring punch we need.

A player I can see Riley absolutely falling in love with as well is going to be Tyler Kolek. Don't think be brings anywhere near the defense of Carter but better shooter and passer.


Yea I see Kolek as a poor-man's Dragic
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#440 » by RexBoyWonder » Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:43 pm

greg4012 wrote:Isaiah Collier is such a wild card. Dude is like a NFL RB playing PG. He undeniably can get into the paint and draw fouls at a rate that is special He's not just a blackhole flying to the rim, either. He flashes a lot of craft scoring in the paint and playmaking off his penetration--real PG and offensive engine stuff.

He also has warts on his profile and question marks that don't have clear answers, at all:

- His measurables are questionable--I bet he's shorter than 6'5 and he has a rumored 6'4 wingspan. Not great and really limits him mostly PG play. It will be interesting to see his actual measurables.

- He's extremely explosive on the ground--great acceleration--and has outstanding body control to find gaps to finish through the teeth of the defense, but he's kind of vertically challenged. He's mostly a below-the-rim player [hence him playing like a RB].

- He flashed a lot of exciting playmaking but also had a lot of sketchy turnovers. I'm OK to see that from a developing prospect as long as it comes with the real flashes. AND it's encouraging that he improved his A/TO numbers as the season went along.

Read on Twitter


- Building off of the above, I believe he has the strength, build, and mobility to be a positive defender, but his rumored short wingspan will cap some of his ability there.


Ultimately, I think getting to know the person behind the player will be critically important for front offices to buy into Collier's upside. That and some confidence that his shot can be improved and refined.

I'm def interested to learn more about Collier as the process goes on. His warts are concerning, but we wouldn't be able to talk about him as potentially being in Miami's range if they didn't exist.


Great post.

I want to see Collier's official measurements, but the eye test is telling me this kid has real upside as an offensive creator - which is a HUGE need for us going forward.

He's very young (3 years younger then Crater) and his jumper mechanics look good - which gives hope he can become a good shooter.

Above all, he has "it" - that ability to create something out of nothing, due to his natural tools (speed, shiftiness, handle, core strength and balance). That's a gret base to start from. I'm hoping he has a decent wingspan.
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