Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[greg4012]

That's why I think Nico should be a 3. Move Bam to the 4th, and draft or sign a C that is big and plays defense. Some intimidator.

Niko’s game and overall makeup does project as a big point SF type like a Toni Kukoc. I just don’t know if he can handle it defensively and we are already crowded at that spot with Butler and JJJ. If this was old school basketball he would fall in line with the Kukoc’s and Schrempf’s at SF.

I think we need to get bigger. Our C is 6'9". Bam can guard almost anyone. If JB stays, he can play the 2, and move to 3 during the games.

Nico's defense improved, but I still think he's a bit soft on defense, especially when defending bigger guys. If we can bring a guy like Steven Adams for example, move Bam to the 4, Nico to 3, and Jimmy to 2... then we need to find a dog PG.

Just dreaming here. We all know Spo loves small-ball basketball.

I honestly don't see any instances where Bam is too small out there. I watched Embiid get whatever he wanted when 1-on-1 on Hartenstein last night. Bam guards Embiid and Jokic better than just about any other player in the NBA. Getting bigger across the board--I can get down with that. Finding a unicorn that can stroke 3s and be a pure rim protection option--sure I'm down.

But, IMO any talk about the Heat being undersized to their detriment should have little or nothing to do with Bam's size or ability.

[greg4012]

Debating whether it’s better offering Jovic or the 15th pick with Herro. I think I might like da Silva or Filipowski more than I do Jovic.

If Jovic was in this draft he would be a locked and loaded top 10 pick at minimum

Other teams might think this as well which once again puts Jovic at the top of our needle moving assets to get a deal done.

Jaime has as much value IMO.

I want to keep one if we're trading for a big fish. BUt, I'm on board with the more realistic pursuit of Ingram without giving up either young buck

[HeatFan_NC]

Long summer ahead fam.

I'll talk in generalities because I think we're limited with our options and might have to settle for our plan D, E or lower due to lack of assets :

1) I want to see us getting back to Heat identity. This means : get bigger across the board, get more athletic, if a player can't defend he better be a superstar scorer to be here. Take games seriously, coasting for regular seasons is just not in our DNA.

2) Get younger. Seeing us relying on the Kevin Love's and Patty Mils's of the world is just too depressing. Get some hungry young lions that might have some upside. We're not contending next year so at least give us something to be excited about.

3) Get an offensive coordinator. This team needs some fresh voices and ideas, watching them play offense has become draining...this game is supposed to be fun.

I'f im being honest - no one should be untouchable. Bam is the closest, but even he isn't really the superstar you can pencil in for the next 10 years. He is Heat culture, so that's a big reason to only trade him if another team wants to overpay for him.


Get bigger, get tougher, get younger, get more creative and dynamic on offense, get more fun.

You left one item off the list: Get players who know how to dribble and have good sense!

[oreon]

Read on Twitter

This makes sense for both teams. Butler can go to Philly and get that max extension he's looking for. Miami can get 3 1st round picks and dump Butler's contract. That would give us additional assets to either rebuild around Bam or bottom out.
I think its just too risky to extend Butler with how he looked last year. And if you don't Butler won't sit down quietly. This is a possible out for both parties.

[AirP.]

It is interesting to see all this optimism now Miami can get a #1 when they've been trying to find a one for 10 years and were given a gift in Butler forcing his way to Miami.

Is it possible, sure but it's probably not realistic which is why I think Miami and Butler decline his PO and add 2 more years.

Let me put this in perspective with this board.

Last year...
Basically, all Miami fans had no issue trading Herro (maybe to get more 1sts), multiple 1sts, possibly Jaquez Jr or Jovic (possibly both) and other assets for a 33 year old small guard paid the max for 3 more years meaning his last year would be age 36 and with him having a PO that last year he would have expected the same thing if he were good in Miami.
vs
Just extending Butler 1 year for nothing but cap space where this stronger good sized for a SF would be just 1 year older. It's pretty wild to me how fast this fan base changes on what's acceptable and what isn't.

[twix2500]

Read on Twitter

If Butler facilitates a Mitchell deal then i can live with this.

Quick question... why wouldn't the 76ers just go get Mitchell who is much younger?

Cause Mitchell possibly doesn’t want the Sixers. I get what you're saying though

Because Heat can add more to the draft picks. Sixers have no young pieces to add to the trade. So you trade Herro, Jovic or Jaime and picks for Mitchell. Heat are not one or two moves away.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

What's funny to me is that Miami could get dramatically better next year by turning a Herro package into an older but more efficient high-volume scorer. Herro's defense was horrible, and he isn't all that athletic, so the bar is pretty low with him. You may laugh but even adding LaVine or Beal in Herro's place would raise Miami's ceiling substantially and all 3 are injury prone but 2 of them are much more efficient scorers that may be even better players under Spoelstra. If you have a consistent efficient high-volume scorer next to Butler and Bam, Miami won't have to rely on minimum players nearly as much for scoring which would fix a lot of Miami's offensive issues.

[contract]

That's why I think Nico should be a 3. Move Bam to the 4th, and draft or sign a C that is big and plays defense. Some intimidator.

Niko’s game and overall makeup does project as a big point SF type like a Toni Kukoc. I just don’t know if he can handle it defensively and we are already crowded at that spot with Butler and JJJ. If this was old school basketball he would fall in line with the Kukoc’s and Schrempf’s at SF.

I think we need to get bigger. Our C is 6'9". Bam can guard almost anyone. If JB stays, he can play the 2, and move to 3 during the games.

Nico's defense improved, but I still think he's a bit soft on defense, especially when defending bigger guys. If we can bring a guy like Steven Adams for example, move Bam to the 4, Nico to 3, and Jimmy to 2... then we need to find a dog PG.

Just dreaming here. We all know Spo loves small-ball basketball.

This is false. It has nothing to do with size and everything to due with skill sets. If Spo had two Joel Embiids, he'd play two Joel Embiids. He'd take two KATs too if he could get him to focus on defense. And if Bam could get his 3 pt shot down, he'd take two of him too. The same with Anthony Davis.

I'm sure he'd love to have Kevin Durant.

[Bishop45]

Herro for Randle and they can figure where they want to trade him

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

This makes sense for both teams. Butler can go to Philly and get that max extension he's looking for. Miami can get 3 1st round picks and dump Butler's contract. That would give us additional assets to either rebuild around Bam or bottom out.
I think its just too risky to extend Butler with how he looked last year. And if you don't Butler won't sit down quietly. This is a possible out for both parties.

Philly could route them picks elsewhere for us, we keep our young dudes in Jovic and JJJ perhaps make cleveland the third team, take on Mitchell. We now have Herro plus our picks and JJJ & Jovic to make another trade to for either a third star or multiple players to support a Rozier, Donovan, Player X, Player X, Bam. Use Herro/Duncan and assets to go get that SF & PF.

[AirP.]

Just say it out loud, you want to do The Process 2.0.

[contract]

If you don’t extend Butler you have to trade him someplace that will. It’s really that simple

Pretty much. If he has a great season next year, he could opt out for nothing and easily get a 1+1 from someone out there.

With Butler moved and Bam being a good but not great scorer Miami's looking at a lot of right around .500 possibly below seasons unless you can bench Bam and his defense to tank.

I'm not worried about Butler, if he's traded he's going to a team that thinks they can win the championship or they wouldn't trade for him but for Miami, it may be dark times until you find a new #1 that the FO has been looking for, for half a decade to team up with Butler and Bam. I just don't understand why Miami fans want to go back to .500 being a great season with no playoff hopes, at least with Butler there's some hope and a chance to build up assets in the meantime, possibly acquiring a new #1 to make Butler leaving (retiring) even easier.

No there isn't hope. Butler is not staying young. He will age. His performance will decline. There's a reason why he wants a 1 year extension now. Him and his agent are very aware of how players decline, and he doesn't want to decline first and then try to con someone into paying him.

No thanks. He's free to play out his contract here if he wants to.

[oreon]

Just say it out loud, you want to do The Process 2.0.

Not really. I am open to tanking or rebuilding around Bam. But not paying Butler 200 mil over next 4 years after how he looked last year. If you move him and get assets back then you look around to see if you a younger All NBA player to team up with Bam, if not then maybe you rebuild.
If Butler is open to shelfing the extensions talks for one more season, then I don't mind keeping him. He's 34 going to 35 with a history of injuries, there's a lot of risk in extending him. If he has another poor season, that's an albatross contract you'd be stuck with

[AirP.]

If you don’t extend Butler you have to trade him someplace that will. It’s really that simple

Pretty much. If he has a great season next year, he could opt out for nothing and easily get a 1+1 from someone out there.

With Butler moved and Bam being a good but not great scorer Miami's looking at a lot of right around .500 possibly below seasons unless you can bench Bam and his defense to tank.

I'm not worried about Butler, if he's traded he's going to a team that thinks they can win the championship or they wouldn't trade for him but for Miami, it may be dark times until you find a new #1 that the FO has been looking for, for half a decade to team up with Butler and Bam. I just don't understand why Miami fans want to go back to .500 being a great season with no playoff hopes, at least with Butler there's some hope and a chance to build up assets in the meantime, possibly acquiring a new #1 to make Butler leaving (retiring) even easier.

No there isn't hope. Butler is not staying young. He will age. His performance will decline. There's a reason why he wants a 1 year extension now. Him and his agent are very aware of how players decline, and he doesn't want to decline first and then try to con someone into paying him.

No thanks. He's free to play out his contract here if he wants to.

It's crazy to me to see how much just 1 more year change how some Miami fans want to see this franchise move forward.

We're talking ONE YEAR. Say he's horrible at age 37 (which I highly doubt), you could use that as a reason to tank and instead of everyone sad you do your retirement tour for Butler while being excited for a high draft pick that summer. Did I mention that Miami's FO possibly thought of this and lottery protected the Rozier 1st rounder for that year? The reason you don't lottery protect the pick is to be able to trade more 1sts in the near future because that 2027 protected pick locks out trading the 2028 pick too.

Its just weird people want a bad team vs a possibility of adding one year of bad contracts.

[contract]

Long summer ahead fam.

I'll talk in generalities because I think we're limited with our options and might have to settle for our plan D, E or lower due to lack of assets :

1) I want to see us getting back to Heat identity. This means : get bigger across the board, get more athletic, if a player can't defend he better be a superstar scorer to be here. Take games seriously, coasting for regular seasons is just not in our DNA.

2) Get younger. Seeing us relying on the Kevin Love's and Patty Mils's of the world is just too depressing. Get some hungry young lions that might have some upside. We're not contending next year so at least give us something to be excited about.

3) Get an offensive coordinator. This team needs some fresh voices and ideas, watching them play offense has become draining...this game is supposed to be fun.

I'f im being honest - no one should be untouchable. Bam is the closest, but even he isn't really the superstar you can pencil in for the next 10 years. He is Heat culture, so that's a big reason to only trade him if another team wants to overpay for him.


Get bigger, get tougher, get younger, get more creative and dynamic on offense, get more fun.

You left one item off the list: Get players who know how to dribble and have good sense!

Some guys that can stay healthy would be great.

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

Its the Young gun NBA now, the old head stars are getting wrecked left and right. This is a reminder were heading to a new NBA timeline. The old stars are not winning you a championship anymore, take that for what is worth, either build with the up and comers or fall into mediocrity for the foreseeable future. It's time to move on from Jimmy Butler and go for a young star as our pivotal player.

[contract]

Pretty much. If he has a great season next year, he could opt out for nothing and easily get a 1+1 from someone out there.

With Butler moved and Bam being a good but not great scorer Miami's looking at a lot of right around .500 possibly below seasons unless you can bench Bam and his defense to tank.

I'm not worried about Butler, if he's traded he's going to a team that thinks they can win the championship or they wouldn't trade for him but for Miami, it may be dark times until you find a new #1 that the FO has been looking for, for half a decade to team up with Butler and Bam. I just don't understand why Miami fans want to go back to .500 being a great season with no playoff hopes, at least with Butler there's some hope and a chance to build up assets in the meantime, possibly acquiring a new #1 to make Butler leaving (retiring) even easier.

No there isn't hope. Butler is not staying young. He will age. His performance will decline. There's a reason why he wants a 1 year extension now. Him and his agent are very aware of how players decline, and he doesn't want to decline first and then try to con someone into paying him.

No thanks. He's free to play out his contract here if he wants to.

It's crazy to me to see how much just 1 more year change how some Miami fans want to see this franchise move forward.

We're talking ONE YEAR. Say he's horrible at age 37 (which I highly doubt), you could use that as a reason to tank and instead of everyone sad you do your retirement tour for Butler while being excited for a high draft pick that summer. Did I mention that Miami's FO possibly thought of this and lottery protected the Rozier 1st rounder for that year? The reason you don't lottery protect the pick is to be able to trade more 1sts in the near future because that 2027 protected pick locks out trading the 2028 pick too.

Its just weird people want a bad team vs a possibility of adding one year of bad contracts.

It's not one more year. It's one more year on top of the already one more year he's already got. I'm not comfortable with his player option. I'd be thrilled if he declined it. Unfortunately he'll only do that if the Heat are dumb enough to add another year.

Why doesn't Butler wait? Hasn't he heard about the new CBA and the escalating salary cap? Think about how much more he could make by waiting to sign.

This isn't a new thing. I've been beating this drum since Butler got here. There was a window for success, and that window is now closing. There was also a window where he'd be able to earn his money, and a declining return on our investment towards the end of his contract. I'm not interested in further financing his decline. I'm good with paying him next season. I'm OK with paying him the year after that if he decides to stick around. I'm not even remotely OK with anything beyond that.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

Its the Young gun NBA now, the old head stars are getting wrecked left and right. This is a reminder were heading to a new NBA timeline. The old stars are not winning you a championship anymore, take that for what is worth, either build with the up and comers or fall into mediocrity for the foreseeable future. It's time to move on from Jimmy Butler and go for a young star as our pivotal player.

It's like this most seasons! There are some teams that have been bad hit on one or more draft picks and end up having a or some really good young players on incredible contracts because of their ages, either rookie deals or the fun max (1st max after the rookie deal). It's like this most years. GS got lucky Curry had glass ankles and got him on a reduced 2nd contract. It's always been like this and with players having longer careers, it's probably going to get somewhat worse since the older guys' maxes are much more than the younger guys' first extension maxes.

To put these value contracts in perspective, Miami just makes some bad decisions with average talent, while Miami handed Herro 30 mil per year for 4 years vs letting him go into RFA and match or sign him for less vs LA letting A.Reaves go into RFA and ended up signing him for 14 mil a year for 4 years.

It's just odd how 1-year extension changes everything when Miami's handed out so many horrible multi-year contracts to much lesser talent for a long time now.

[dubasilva]

Niko’s game and overall makeup does project as a big point SF type like a Toni Kukoc. I just don’t know if he can handle it defensively and we are already crowded at that spot with Butler and JJJ. If this was old school basketball he would fall in line with the Kukoc’s and Schrempf’s at SF.

I think we need to get bigger. Our C is 6'9". Bam can guard almost anyone. If JB stays, he can play the 2, and move to 3 during the games.

Nico's defense improved, but I still think he's a bit soft on defense, especially when defending bigger guys. If we can bring a guy like Steven Adams for example, move Bam to the 4, Nico to 3, and Jimmy to 2... then we need to find a dog PG.

Just dreaming here. We all know Spo loves small-ball basketball.

This is false. It has nothing to do with size and everything to due with skill sets. If Spo had two Joel Embiids, he'd play two Joel Embiids. He'd take two KATs too if he could get him to focus on defense. And if Bam could get his 3 pt shot down, he'd take two of him too. The same with Anthony Davis.

I'm sure he'd love to have Kevin Durant.

KD sounds good to me. and Nico at the 3 spot.

[contract]

Also if it's "only one year", then Jimmy shouldn't mind waiting "only one year" to get a new contract.