Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[batterybro42]

It’s Pat Riley’s team and that should be respected. I too had issues with Jimmy talking in the Boston series. This is Pat Riley putting his foot down and reminding everyone who actually built this franchise. I get the feeling Jimmy took things a little too far with some of the antics, and this recent posturing heading into the offseason. Pat Riley just putting him in line here, which is a stance/approach I think Jimmy needs from time to time.

[IceColdCubano]

It’s Pat Riley’s team and that should be respected. I too had issues with Jimmy talking in the Boston series. This is Pat Riley putting his foot down and reminding everyone who actually built this franchise. I get the feeling Jimmy took things a little too far with some of the antics, and this recent posturing heading into the offseason. Pat Riley just putting him in line here, which is a stance/approach I think Jimmy needs from time to time.

Yeah Pat is old school, you can talk smack all you want but you got to back it up and be on the court doing it. Don't get eliminated as a playing team coming in at the 8th seed, get injured playing a game you had no business in because you took a bunch of days off and couldn't bring yourself up to play up the competition during the regular season, and then yap around saying if I was on the court Id be killing you right now. Seriously shut the fck up, you aint, and you can't prove it otherwise, best to be professional come back and prove it next year.

[IceColdCubano]

If Pat expects Jimmy to be more available, I expect Pat to help Jimmy stay healthy by :

1) Adding a real offensive scorer/creator to take some of the pressure off Jimmy.

2) Add real size across the board so we're not always undersized, overpowered, needing to give 110% effort every second, getting beat up.

If the front office doesn't adress these things, THEY should shut up.

This should've been done after the 2020 Finals loss. Not defending Jimmy or what, but his fewer games played during the season is also BS, but Riley calling him out like that with 0 major moves in last 4 years is questionable.

I don't think it's questionable, I think its fair. We can call out both of them, him and Jimmy. Last I checked two wrongs don't make a right. Jimmy didn't just miss a bunch of games, he also didn't care much about the ones actually played in. That's unacceptable, its not like hes not getting paid to do so. He has a max contract for a reason, to meet the expectations of the team.

I am not here to back up the FO, however I'll call both of them out. Theyve made questionable decisions, but to sit here and say they haven't tried to upgrade this team is not true. Nobody here knows what goes on behind the scenes, we don't know about getting outbidded, or being told our assets suck, or those players having preference to go elsewhere. The Beal decision was the right one, Lillard didn't pan out and that GM was never sending him regardless, They went and gave up assets to get Rozier, another ball handler scoring mid season, that didn't pan out either due to health and it look to take longer than we thought for him to fit. Theyve been dangling Herro every damn offseason since I can remember, once that 30M contract took over the expectation we had money to move for pieces with Herro being young, etc but now he has lost value. Nobody has taken the bait, and Miami has been unwilling to sell him off for spare parts in role players to fit the team better, we can definitely argue that. Duncan has not been the healthiest of wings, and also the most up and down player making another significant chunk of money we also have not been able to offload without sending out picks.

The build is the build, Jimmy and Bam are it, there is noone coming to save this team from a superstar point of view, those guys will need to maximize their potential and play as hard to get where we need to go. Were also a second Apron team, which means we have a bunch of salary on a bunch of players whos skill overlaps, and have zero elite qualities. However knowing that you can't just wipe the slate clean every offseason and start fresh with role players, some of them are signed multiple years, so you can play musical chairs with vets and undrafted as you can.

That one presser Pat Riley where he essentially said Bam and Herro had to become 25ppg scorers he wasn't lying, that is what it will take, there is nothing coming behind those guys, and salary getting move for a star player means its either Bam or Jimmy, its apparent yesterday that Pat hinted that Herro would be uncapable of getting him a third star return ie unless their willing to lose all and every asset in their war chest for one, which they from his comments would not be doing the team that disservice.

So Jimmy either plays like a 44M dollar player or don't but you can't say were not getting places when your scoring 12-14 points in conference clinching tie breaker games in the regular season. You control what you can control, fans really think GM's have this ability to play 2K trading out here like the other team can't tell you no your sheit sucks.

Well probably be in rumors again in the offseason with Donovan Mitchell, unless something changes, however depending on how he plays it we either have a slight chance or no chance at all, Its all on Donovan's hands to pick his destination.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Need Martin, Bryant, and Love to opt out. Need to make sure if we do bring Highsmith back that he’s nothing more then the 15th man on this team. Too offensively limited to be a SF and way too small to be a consistent PF on this team. Even a backup PF is absolutely out of the question. I hope someone out there gives him an offer over the QO.

[greg4012]

I won't correlate Minny and Miami in this example way too different. Both Kat and Gobert are 7 footers one is an actual scorer. Also we don't have the equivalency of Anthony Edwards, or to lesser degree McDaniel's as a top tier wing defender.

The equivalency here is that Bam is the Gobert of this example, and we don't have a Kat version next to him, but in the end Bam is still 6'-9". Were also missing Anthony Edwards, you won't find that guy outside of the top 10 pick in a draft we won't find ourselves in. Also McDaniel's is 3x better than his comp on our team in Haywood Highsmith. Were a bit flawed as a team, were a couple missing pieces to get there I think were 3 key pieces away, 1 superstar, 1 premier all world 3&D player wing, 1 top 20 league big next to Bam.

Bam is also a better defender for the playoff game than Gobert. Gobert being buttressed with all the right defenders in Minny in the early playoff rounds and being solid so far doesn't change that.

The fascination with Bam's size among Heat fans still blows my mind. He's 6'9 without shoes. Gobert is surrounded by plus defenders and Towns--who is long and mediocre as a defender. Minny has done a great job of getting 2-way players across the board. Celtics, Thunder, Nuggets and even the Knicks have done the same.

Ice cold; is not jovic what are we hoping to elevated his game to the next level next to Bam? I acknowledged that JOvic is a far away from being a really consistent productive player but I wonder if Heat fans have already thrown in the towel on Jovic? Honestly, i don’t even know how good he is going to be? The only person knows that is Jovic himself, unfortunately. I am watching
Wolves vs Nuggets now. Wolves looks great so far.

My hope for Jović as a defender is to emulate Maxi Kleber. Jović is a little longer. Will he fill out to be around 240 and keep his mobility? TBD

If you ask me his mobility and coordination on the court looked better as the season went on. I’d have to attribute that to his mental processing.

Jović is 20. Bulk Balkan loading…

[greg4012]

He's paid too much to be a 6th man. I'm sure there's some teams out there who would like Herro to start for them because of who they currently having start or just need more 3pt shooting. It'll be easier to change Herro's game if he changes team's vs trying to change his game for the longterm while in Miami.

That’s why I feel like a swap of Herro for Ingram makes a ton of sense. Allows Murphy to take over at SF and gives them a true scoring two in Herro who’s young and is likes by their star Williamson. Also alot leas pressure in NO for Herro.

Zion also loves Herro. So there's that.

The fit with CJ is a little awkward though.

Might be time for CJ to take a bench role. Zion is 23. Herro is 24. CJ is 32.

Tyler and CJ are kinda similar skillset wise. Tyler can be the CJ replacement for Zion’s prime.

Pels need to find their 3&D PG of the future either way. Take to the draft. Sh*t maybe they can pick at 15 and 17

[jbsays]

I don't see Riley's comments as a big deal. We've all pretty much said the same thing.

It was ok to coast during the regular season when you delivered come playoff time, but to do it and then not be available in the playoffs?

Butler's agent response was perfect.

Maybe Jimmy is injure prone at this point? He is 35. If so, you can't commit to him long term.

Remember how Shaq left here? He nearly got in to a fight with Riley. I don't think anything like that will ever happen again. Not that these guys are soft, but times have definitely changed.

Riley basically said "you want a max... show us you deserve it."

I have been saying this all year, I don't think this is all Jimmy coasting. I do think there's a 20% coasting somewhere in there, but there is an 80% of his body not being up to the daily grind. Which is where Pat is drawing a line, were he is committed to winning but the team invested a lot of cap space, in the last extension with the expectation he would play more games. He hasn't played even though he was put on notice, so he/they the team is not ready to talk extension and have another year to look at this. Jimmy's camp however is aware that Jimmy perhaps is not healthy enough to actually come through with this, and therefore this is a line drawn from the front office on expectation and to come right at negotiations. Jimmy another year older will play less games, unless he bamboozles us and comes like a top 5 MVP guy playing 70 games in the upcoming season, we finish top 3 seed, and go to another ECF/Finals, and then he goes downhill again.

He is 35 so it's definitely possible. Wade was 35 when he went to the Bulls, Kobe was 35 when he got injured, Jordan was 35 second time he retired. I had to look those up on bball reference, but I knew those guys were around that age.

It seems like it would work similar to Shaq/Wade situation except Butler is in the Shaq (old vet) role and Bam is in the Wade (young guy) role.... except we all know Bam isn't a #1 option on offense.

I also just looked it up... Shaq was 35 when he was traded to the Suns.

[jbsays]

Need Martin, Bryant, and Love to opt out. Need to make sure if we do bring Highsmith back that he’s nothing more then the 15th man on this team. Too offensively limited to be a SF and way too small to be a consistent PF on this team. Even a backup PF is absolutely out of the question. I hope someone out there gives him an offer over the QO.

Isn't Love pretty cheap though? Seems like he is a good vet presence and is capable of eating up some regular season minutes. You just don't want him playing big minutes in the playoffs.... but I guess you could say this about half (or more?) of last seasons roster.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Need Martin, Bryant, and Love to opt out. Need to make sure if we do bring Highsmith back that he’s nothing more then the 15th man on this team. Too offensively limited to be a SF and way too small to be a consistent PF on this team. Even a backup PF is absolutely out of the question. I hope someone out there gives him an offer over the QO.

Isn't Love pretty cheap though? Seems like he is a good vet presence and is capable of eating up some regular season minutes. You just don't want him playing big minutes in the playoffs.... but I guess you could say this about half (or more?) of last seasons roster.

My problem is Love was supposed to have been brought in here to be a compliment to Bam at the 4 spot but he ended just being a small backup Center with no lift to block shots and played along side smaller players at the 4. Just didn’t make sense. I don’t see him passing on his 4.5 million opt in unless he’s set on retiring.

[carnageta]

Ya'll are overblowing Pat's comments, just like the entire media has done.

Availability has been a big concern for Jimmy and even in the games he does dress up ya'll have complained endlessly how he doesn't actually try / take the game seriously in the regular season. And now Pat has called him out for the exact same thing ya'll have been saying since basically 2022, and ya'll are now saying Pat is off base?

[MartyConlonJr]

I guess Pat Riley and Jimmy could structure an incentive and commitment oriented extension around games played, games won, playoff advancing where 3rd year is not guaranteed unless he meets those markers

[carnageta]

Everyone keeps mentioning the lack of size on our roster - the same lack of size is what's gotten us to 2 finals and 3 ECF in the last 5 years. (please, lets not act like Meyers Leonard starting at C for half the regular season in 2020 was why we made it as far).

Injuries are a legit concern for this team, and that is something the front office can't really control. We acquired a 20ppg scorer in Terry Rozier and then he has a neck / spinal injury that ends up costing him the season. We lost Jimmy in the play-in game that we shouldn't have been participating in. Tyler Herro missed 42 games. We missed the 6th seed by 1 game. We missed home-court advantage by 2 games. These guys dress up a bit more and we probably get the job done.

Jimmy Butler took a 'rest' day 3 games into the regular season, and now likely wants a max contract extension to boot - and ya'll are upset Pat called him out?

[MettaWorldPanda]

I don’t even know how we end up signing any free agents this year because of the tax. We can get into the first apron via opt outs but even with vet mins we find ourselves into tax trouble. This team needs to dump a contract or tax less in trade like we did with Rozier.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Everyone keeps mentioning the lack of size on our roster - the same lack of size is what's gotten us to 2 finals and 3 ECF in the last 5 years. (please, lets not act like Meyers Leonard starting at C for half the regular season in 2020 was why we made it as far).

Injuries are a legit concern for this team, and that is something the front office can't really control. We acquired a 20ppg scorer in Terry Rozier and then he has a neck / spinal injury that ends up costing him the season. We lost Jimmy in the play-in game that we shouldn't have been participating in. Tyler Herro missed 42 games. We missed the 6th seed by 1 game. We missed home-court advantage by 2 games. These guys dress up a bit more and we probably get the job done.

Jimmy Butler took a 'rest' day 3 games into the regular season, and now likely wants a max contract extension to boot - and ya'll are upset Pat called him out?

Last year was a cinderalla type run. The previous years we might have been small in height with Tucker and Crowder but both were wide and hard to move off the blocks. Love also played PF and Zeller was brought in to give us more beef up front last year for the stretch run. Also during the Crowder run we had KO coming off the bench. This years version of small ball was similar to when we got mollywopped running out Ariza, Harkless, and Iguodala.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[marson]

Read on Twitter

So basically Jimmy because the other one is just a no show every playoffs

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

So basically Jimmy because the other one is just a no show every playoffs

“Playoff P” is a literal myth

[MettaWorldPanda]

The difference with them signing PG is they get to keep their assets for other deals.

[greg4012]

Everyone keeps mentioning the lack of size on our roster - the same lack of size is what's gotten us to 2 finals and 3 ECF in the last 5 years. (please, lets not act like Meyers Leonard starting at C for half the regular season in 2020 was why we made it as far).

Injuries are a legit concern for this team, and that is something the front office can't really control. We acquired a 20ppg scorer in Terry Rozier and then he has a neck / spinal injury that ends up costing him the season. We lost Jimmy in the play-in game that we shouldn't have been participating in. Tyler Herro missed 42 games. We missed the 6th seed by 1 game. We missed home-court advantage by 2 games. These guys dress up a bit more and we probably get the job done.

Jimmy Butler took a 'rest' day 3 games into the regular season, and now likely wants a max contract extension to boot - and ya'll are upset Pat called him out?

Last year was a cinderalla type run. The previous years we might have been small in height with Tucker and Crowder but both were wide and hard to move off the blocks. Love also played PF and Zeller was brought in to give us more beef up front last year for the stretch run. Also during the Crowder run we had KO coming off the bench. This years version of small ball was similar to when we got mollywopped running out Ariza, Harkless, and Iguodala.

I'm a Jovic believer. I think he adds functional size and he'll continue to grow into that. That is the exact reason why the Heat prioritized having him play center in the G League and put him on a developmental track to do more of the big man things.

But, I def agree that it's more about functional size across all positions than it is about prioritizing adding lumbering big men. Advantage can be gained or exploited at any spot/position on the court. Playoff bball is honing in on that at a granular level.

If you're thin and short for your position, you better be a pesky POA defender that never gets caught in a screen and does a lot of little things on the court to give team advantage.

[wadenation305]

Need Martin, Bryant, and Love to opt out. Need to make sure if we do bring Highsmith back that he’s nothing more then the 15th man on this team. Too offensively limited to be a SF and way too small to be a consistent PF on this team. Even a backup PF is absolutely out of the question. I hope someone out there gives him an offer over the QO.

Highsmith will be our starting PF next year, we'll get a couple of Spoisms, preach about all the hard work he put in during the summer to get the offensive talent he's never had outside of a couple of cags.