Katz:"Heat considering taking Mayo at #2" update p2

CoolD · Post #41 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:52 pm

heat4life wrote:It was D'Antoni who wanted Marion traded for Shaq from what I heard.

I heard the other way around.

That is why D'Antoni bailed out of Phoenix. Steve Kerr came up with the idea, then they kind of convinced D'Antoni to go along with it.
Steve Kerr was trying to force a certain style on D'Antoni. Am sure D'Antoni will love to have Marion back as one his players.

Post #42 » by **heat4life** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:56 pm

Could very well be the case although I heard the opposite. I just don't know why it makes sense for the Knicks unless they consider Marion a building block. Marbury is an expiring contract as well so they would basically lose the #6 pick for no reason.

CoolD · Post #43 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:59 pm

Knicks have been hitting the draft every year. By now I would be bored with getting young players.

The draft is overrated most of the time.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #44 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:00 pm

CoolD wrote:
heat4life wrote:It was D'Antoni who wanted Marion traded for Shaq from what I heard.
I heard the other way around.

That is why D'Antoni bailed out of Phoenix. Steve Kerr came up with the idea, then they kind of convinced D'Antoni to go along with it.
Steve Kerr was trying to force a certain stylo on D'Antoni. Am sure D'Antoni will love to have Marion back as one his players.

Marion and Dan Tony had some serious issues in Pheonix. I don't know who wanted the trade, but I know that Dan Tony wanted Marion out of Phoenix and Marion was happy to be gone.

CoolD · Post #45 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:01 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
CoolD wrote:
heat4life wrote:It was D'Antoni who wanted Marion traded for Shaq from what I heard.
I heard the other way around.

That is why D'Antoni bailed out of Phoenix. Steve Kerr came up with the idea, then they kind of convinced D'Antoni to go along with it.
Steve Kerr was trying to force a certain stylo on D'Antoni. Am sure D'Antoni will love to have Marion back as one his players.

Marion and Dan Tony had some serious issues in Pheonix. I don't know who wanted the trade, but I know that Dan Tony wanted Marion out of Phoenix and Marion was happy to be gone.

I heard it was about money.

Also that Marion wanted more recognition. He seem to not like Nash and Amare always getting all the credit.

But am sure now, D'Antoni will take him.

HeatSince88 · Post #46 » by **HeatSince88** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:03 pm

If the Knicks main goal is to have cap space for 2010, which would they prefer?

- A 23-year-old Top 6 pick making $2.75 million in 2010

- A 32-year-old on the decline making $10 million to $12 million in 2010

It's obvious.

NY will rebuild by giving away big salaries and adding high picks. Not giving away high picks and adding big salaries.

Post #47 » by **heat4life** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:03 pm

CoolD wrote:Knicks have been hitting the draft every year. By now I would be bored with getting young players.

The draft is overrated most of the time.

Knicks have been hitting the draft?

Who? Balkman? Robinson? Chandler? Frye? Collins?

Besides Lee who was a "solid" pick at the spot, I don't see Isiah's "eye for the draft" hype. Now, Donnie Walsh is more respected personnel man but he made a few mistakes himself (Bender pick)

CoolD · Post #48 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:05 pm

HeatSince88 wrote:If the Knicks main goal is to have cap space for 2010, which would they prefer?

- A 23-year-old Top 6 pick making $2.75 million in 2010

- A 32-year-old on the decline making $10 million to $12 million in 2010

It's obvious.

NY will rebuild by giving away big salaries and adding high picks. Not giving away high picks and adding big salaries.

D'Antoni''s problem in Phoenix, he didn't like young players. Or doesn't like to babysit.

I could easily see Marion being added.

HeatSince88 · Post #49 » by **HeatSince88** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:08 pm

LOL, hasn't every team been "hitting the draft every year"?

Let's tell Chicago to give us #1 since they've been "hitting the draft every year" and must be "bored with getting young players". Heck, let's tell every team that.

CoolD · Post #50 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:12 pm

Their is a difference with having the number one pick.

And having the 6.

Lets looks at the year LeBron was drafted.

The 6 pick was Kaman.

Do you rather have Shawn Marion, or Kaman.

Marion knows D'Antoni's system. He thrived.

The 6 pick is not that special.

HeatSince88 · Post #51 » by **HeatSince88** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:14 pm

CoolD wrote:D'Antoni''s problem in Phoenix, he didn't like young players. Or doesn't like to babysit.

I could easily see Marion being added.

Right, Donnie Walsh is looking to give away cheap lottery picks that can be 15-year cornerstones and instead add aging, expensive players who will swallow up cap room in 2010 and retire two years later.

But wait, D'Antoni didn't play many young guys in Phoenix (well except for Stoudamire, Barbosa, Diaw, Q Richardson, and J Johnson who he played as rookies or unestablished young pups) ... so it all makes perfect sense now!

magicfan4life05 · Post #52 » by **magicfan4life05** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:14 pm

Scott (Philly): When you look at a player like Beasley do you associate his being a "free-spirit" or "immature" with his not being a hard worker? Seems to me that there is a difference between immaturity (which is natural in a young kid) and a lack of desire (which would be a legit red-flag)...

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:04 PM ET ) Joakim Noah is a free spirit. Beasley is immature. The video of his workout was not something teams are impressed with.

Marc (IN): David, can you elaborate on the video? Was he just horsing around instead of working?

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:07 PM ET ) Walking too much. And complaining about the 3 hours. Trust me, no one can go thru a 3 hour workout going full speed. Our workouts, deemed impossibly hard by most coaches who come here, last 90 minutes tops with 10 guys. And we have to carry them off the court.

I get the immaturity thing, but can someone explain what he's talking about when he's saying no one can go through the workout w/o going full speed because they would be tired...is he saying the guy did not give it his all and that's why he wasnt tired at the end?

CoolD · Post #53 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:21 pm

Miami fans totally underrate Marion.

You thinking 30 years old means the end of the world.

A guy can play at very high level till 35 to 36, if he has no injury issues.

How the hell can a team like the Spurs compete with so many guys that are old.

K.G is a scrub, the guy is 32 years old. Oh Kobe is 30 too.

This guys have at least 4 to 5 more years in the tank.

SA37 · Post #54 » by **SA37** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:30 pm

CoolD wrote:I think the Knicks could easilty go for Marion.

Coach D'Antoni now coaches the Knicks. Why wouldn't he fit with the Knicks.

They would also get rid of Marbury, a guy that eats 21 million.

I don't even know fi the Heat should waste one year 21 million, while losing a real good trading asset, just to obtain the 6 pick.

Marion doesn't fit with the Knicks because by the time they get any good, he'll be declining. (He'll be 31 at the end of next season.) Plus, he wants star money (by all accounts, $12-14 million per) and the Knicks are trying to get cap room for '10.

Marion fits on a team that wants to compete now and doesn't mind overpaying for his services. The only teams I could see having an interest in acquiring him and giving him an extension would be the Lakers (although, they're WAY into the tax if they extend him), Cleveland, Denver, Houston, Utah, possibly Dallas, and possibly Toronto.

HeatSince88 · Post #55 » by **HeatSince88** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:42 pm

CoolD wrote:Miami fans totally underrate Marion.

You thinking 30 years old means the end of the world.

A guy can play at very high level till 35 to 36, if he has no injury issues.

How the hell can a team like the Spurs compete with so many guys that are old.

K.G is a scrub, the guy is 32 years old. Oh Kobe is 30 too.

This guys have at least 4 to 5 more years in the tank.

Why is New York actively trying to trade a veteran (David Lee) for the Grizzlies #5 pick?

I thought D'Antoni hates rookies? I thought they want to add salary longterm salary commitments (Marion) and give away lottery picks (#6), instead of the other way around?

CoolD, just because you want the Knicks to rebuild through expensive 30+ guys and give us their lottery pick doesn't mean they will. In fact, hier rebuilding plan is (wisely) the precise opposite of what you want them to do for us.

miamiballer · Post #56 » by **miamiballer** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:52 pm

rumor has it that we will in fact take beasley at 2 and trade marion to tor for ford and filler

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=817690

Post #57 » by **heat4life** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:00 pm

That Toronto deal makes no sense for Miami

CoolD · Post #58 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:04 pm

David Lee sucks.

So ofcourse is not about veterans, is about good players.

Didn't last year the Sonics trade for a 5th pick. Lost their semi All Star player. Old player.

They had the 2nd pick and 5th pick. And this year they had a record franchise in losses.

While the asset they traded ended up winning a title.

Yeah that 5th pick is going to become the face of the league in 5 years. LOL.

HeatSince88 · Post #59 » by **HeatSince88** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:18 pm

CoolD wrote:David Lee sucks.

Riiight....

Didn't last year the Sonics trade for a 5th pick. Lost their semi All Star player. Old player.

Oh right. So yes, the Knicks will give us #6 and an expiring for an expiring! And abandon all hopes of cap space for Lebron or Wade in 2010 just so they can give away their #6 pick to us.

They had the 2nd pick and 5th pick. And this year they had a record franchise in losses.

Two years after that deal, they will have a core of Kevin Durant, Jerryd Bayless, Jeff Green and $20 million in cap room.

That is where the Knicks plan to be in 2010. A couple of high lottery talents entering their prime, and max cap room.

Not NO cap room and a 33-year-old Marion.

Get it?

While the asset they traded ended up winning a title.

Right.

Because Ray Allen won a title in Boston this year, that means New York would now like to give away their #6 pick plus any hopes of signing LeBron, Wade, Melo, or Bosh in 2010.

Just two months after they made such a plan.

Ray Allen winning a title changes everything.

Yeah that 5th pick is going to become the face of the league in 5 years. LOL.

If New York is dumb for trading some who "sucks" for #5, aren't we even dumber for trying to trade Marion for #6 like you're suggesting?

Nice! LOL.

CoolD · Post #60 » by **CoolD** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:28 pm

First and foremost. You are hearing rumors. Not actual legit information that only the people in the organization have. So how do you know, that the actually going to waste 2 more years. hoping LeBron comes in and saves them.

If they hired D'Antoni, I think they are thinking of a faster fix.

The Knicks have had no trouble overpaying players, so why should they stop now.

Just because the Heat doesn't do it. doesn't mean a team like the Knicks won't overpay Marion.(previous history)

wouldn't it be a higher selling point for Wade and LeBron, to actually have a good team than just money.

Marion would be 33, so what. Wade will be close to 29 years old. So going by your age thing. They will not even go after Wade because he is to old..