Amare Stoudemire thread (out for season? update pg 35)

[BFO]

I feel blessed.


And convinced.


The question now is can Riles pull this thing off?

[mopper8]

I've been reading a lot of the same complaints about Amare over and over. Something along the lines of "offense isn't the problem"

Again that's not true at all:

We're not exactly lighting it up in offense. 23rd in PPG. 21st in FG%. 24th in Points per shot. Our defense ranks across the board better than our offense.It's extremely rare that you find that one trade that turns everything around.

Not to mention JO isn't gonna solve all of our defensive problems either.

We are something stupid like 15-3 when we score over 100 points, btw. Defense is -not- our primary problem. A dearth of overall talent is our problem

Wade + role players will never score enough to win a title. And you think he'll want to re-sign here if he's spent 3 seasons shooting more/game than anyone else in the league, running himself into the ground trying to single-handedly keep the team afloat? I mean, he even said himself earlier this season that ideally, we'd have a team like LA where he (like Kobe) would not have to do everything on offense. We're not close to that right now.

Also, a lot of complaints about Amare's attitude. Well, I think that's fair, BUT...I'd also add that there were a long list of players who came to Miami with supposed attitude problems (Alonzo Mourning and Lamar Odom especially come to mind) and did pretty well here, as I recall.

Wade + Amare would be arguably the best combo in the league, certainly in the conversation. Kobe + Gasol, Garnett + either of the Celts swings, Howard + Lewis (?)...not much else comparable. Yao + T-Mac maybe, Lebron + Mo Williams I guess too...note, of course, that those are the best teams in the league, by and large, the only legit title contenders. I'm not sure I take Duncan/Parker over Wade and Amare, either, to be honest. We're not going to compete with those teams without a serious talent upgrade, the likes of which JO does not represent. Bosh would also be phenomenal, for sure, but is just as big a risk to bolt in 2010, and also not the interior defender we're looking for. I'm not sure what he brings to the table Stat doesn't, except maybe more willing to defer to Wade. But also maybe less talented, and less skilled on the pick/roll.

Wade and Amare is a foundation you can build a title contender around, though, without question IMO. Surround them with shooters and defenders, and you're basically set (ala the 04-05 Heat model).

Chalmers/________
Wade/Cook
Jones (maybe)/Cook
Amare/Haslem
__________/Magloire

Those pieces all fit, and are all good enough to win a title with (James Jones would need to actually play like he did pre-injury to fit into this group). It would be great to add one more scorer, for sure, but not necessary. Trying to grab one of the numerous centers on the block or available this summer and a backup PG would really be all that's necessary though: Kaman, Camby, Chandler are the first 3 to come to mind.

My main thing about Beasely is that maybe he ends up scoring 20-25 ppg, and very efficiently, and basically finds himself in Amare's class. Maybe he's even a better rebounder and defender than Stat, too, in the long run. Maybe. EVEN THEN, though, the chances he gets there next season (*edited, sorry I left that out, kinda important to the point) are basically -0-. That would be such a big rookie-soph job its hard to wrap your head around. It could happen, sure, and if we traded him and it did, I'd feel like an idiot, but the chances are pretty slim. Much more likely is that if he gets there, he gets there in his 3rd year at the earliest, most likely his 4th or 5th year (realistically). And if we wait on that, then there's no guarantee that Wade is here to pair with him. That's mainly the point: we have nothing solid with Wade beyond next season. I don't see the point in planning around 2011 if our foundation isn't guaranteed to be in Miami that season. Our window with Wade, for the time being, is 1.5 seasons, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, the better we do between now and then, the more likely it is that he re-signs with us.

[Flash3]

Mopper! -- So nice of you to stop by.

[Flash3]

btw, Amare is on ESPN right now.

[BFO]

Just watching Pho vs GSW now....something about Amare I don't like. Does he want to win bad enough?

I would be a crap GM!

[GameTime_3]

How about this for a 3 way deal!

Miami trades- Marion/Beasley/Banks/Cash
Miami gets- Bosh/Barbosa/G.Hill

PHX trades- Amare/Hill/Barbosa
PHX gets- Marion/Beasley/Kapono

Tor trades- Bosh/Kapono
Tor gets- Amare/Banks/

Everyone gets what they want. PHX get expiring,young player and role player. Miami gets Bosh, backup PG and they can either waive Hill or keep him. Tor gets a new toy, they get a young amare to build around and Amare would be happy to the be 1st option.

[DC_20]

who cares about hes 'attitude problems' i cant see any player in the league having an issue playing along side the unselfish wade... imo wade would pride himself on being able to set up Amare. And he talks about being the face of a franchise ... its very well to be the face of a franchise that doesnt win....(kg in miny for e.g.) ....i think miami is the perfect team for stat ...hell be in a winning situation and be the big name player he wants to be along with another guy (wade) who knows how to win.

[The Diesel]

ESPN.com is also reporting that Miami is very interested in Amare.

[Flix360]

So basically,we're just waiting on Amare, if PHX cant connect the link with us, we'll go for JON.

Seems fine. I hope you do something Riley.

[Iputsomepantson]

Interesting quote by Amare that's up on realgm right now:

"I know for sure, wherever I go, we're going to definitely be playoff contenders. I bring a lot to the table."

Notice how he said "wherever I go", not "if i go". Looks like he's expecting to be traded.

[PLUGITUP]

Hey man Beasley is going to be good make no qualms about it but STAT is a lot better right now and Wade is hitting his prime at 27. Wade can not wait for Beasley to develop in 3-4 years time. Miami can pull the trigger on a couple of trades and be contenders for thext few years ptherwise Wade will do the bolt.

I would trade Beasley and Blount for STAT in a heartbeat and this works well for both teams. In addition if you can get JO for Marion wow what a lineup'

Wade
Chalmers
Jermain Jones / Dorrell Wright
Amare
Jermaine

Wade was superman when they won the title, this team has more potential and Wade is hungry to go all the way again.

Get Wade help now before he decides to go elsewhere. STAT when motivated is an absolute beast and this team listed above defensivley would be freaky and offensively would also be so well balanced. This team can beat Magic, Cavs and Celtices.

Hang on i am calling Riley right now, " Hello Pat, yeah man pull the trigger on these 2 deals, what was that? Yeah i know more rings for FLASH = YEAH BABY !!!!!!!"

[drivewayball]

In the post above, is that Grant Hill the Heat would be getting? You have to be kidding. Hill is sensational for the Suns this year and they would never dream of parting with him this season. Had the deal of Beasley/Marion for Stoudemire been as simple as that, I'm guessing it would already be done. However, a few more million in salary has to come from Phoenix and therefore another player. If a deal of Beas/Marion/Chalmers was requested in return for Amare/Barbosa, I can see some hesitation on Miami's part ... but I'd still make the deal.

[Iputsomepantson]

I don't think the team you posted can win the title this year Plug.

Those are some major additions to our team and Spoelstra will have to remake the offense right in the thick of a playoff hunt. Plus, we will be lacking a defensive SF who can guard pierce/james/Lewis.

But who knows, maybe Wright can suddenly become the defensive stopper we've always wanted him to be. (Not likely)

[CaneFlash]

I was researching some things about a possible trade. A what if scenario, if you will. Let's say Amare does indeed get traded to the Heat, but does not perform to expectations, due to injury or a fall in production due to not being in D'Antoni's system. His contract does not end for the 2010 offseason. Amare has an option for $17.7 million for the 2010-2011 season. The reason I bring this up is, what if after 18 months with the Heat, Amare is deemed as an ill fit and Riley and Co. want to go a different way. Amare, if he feels he won't get a max contract in 2010, can take the player option, will stay for 2010-2011, eliminating any chance of getting anybody, while remaining a bad fit, and possibly pissing off Wade or prompting his exit from Miami.

Again, this is just a what if scenario that I thought of when looking for info on a possible trade. I have always been of the opinion that the Heat are better off trading for someone like JON to provide that defensive post presence for the next two years, keeping the young core of talent of Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook intact, and go after Bosh or Amare in 2010.

[PLUGITUP]

I don't think the team you posted can win the title this year Plug.

Those are some major additions to our team and Spoelstra will have to remake the offense right in the thick of a playoff hunt. Plus, we will be lacking a defensive SF who can guard pierce/james/Lewis.

But who knows, maybe Wright can suddenly become the defensive stopper we've always wanted him to be. (Not likely)

They won't win it this year because their seed would probably be too low but next year they could definitely win it with this team. Chalmers and Wade are that good defensively and with Jermaine or Chandler if they can get him would pair up great with STAT. Don;t forget we still have Haslem off the bench with Cook etc and Joel Anthony to back up big or Magloire whichever one stays. Remember you can't have everything but this would be enough for sure.

When they won the ring before their team wasn't that great, they just had good chemistry and Wade played out of his skin. The team i have listed has way more potential and knowing Wade has been there before and STAT has a lot of experience along with Jermaine, those guys are hungry for a ring.

I have always had a soft spot for Miami and i love Wade. I want to see him win more rings because this guy is always posted as being in the shadows of Kobe and Bron but he is the guy that single handedly won the title on his beack i haven't seen Kobe or Bron do that. I think Bron has a HUGE chance this year and Kobe had his chance last year and come up short. Although i hate to say it Lakers will be there again but either Cavs or Boston will have a chance at stopping them. Homecourt will be huge.

But forget talking about those teams, lets get the Heat back in the mix with these trades.

[Iputsomepantson]

Don't get me wrong Plug, I would love it if we acquired JO and Amare at the same time. So if your trying to sell such a trade to most any Heat fan, you win.

I just don't think that team could win the championship this year.

As much as I dislike Amare, I am all for acquiring him for cheap.

Is such a deal for both Amare and JO possible though? Not likely.

[Dresta]

I'm sorry but there's no way we win a championship with Amare, he's a terrible defender, a poor rebounder and a selfish player with a bad knee history. If we traded for him we'd be giving up our future for him and our flexibility for 2010. We also wouldn't solve our biggest need which is a defending big man to protect the paint. Trading Bealsey for him would be foolish, with Beasley on his rookie contract we could have him, Wade and a top tier free agent, without it, we're stuck with what we've got.

[Lane1974]

no wonder we turned them down, look at the utter crap that Chad Ford proposes for other teams in a potential Amare deal. Beasley is much too much compared some of these other deals.

again, these aren't rumors, just Chad's speculation

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... rio-090207

I'd offer Marion + filler, if they are so cash poor and only care about salary space and potential - give them a Cook and picks galore or something to throw them a bone

Word has spread like wildfire throughout the league the past 48 hours that the Phoenix Suns are abandoning ship.

With the financial crisis rising and with the Suns sinking in the West, it sounds as if owner Robert Sarver has had enough of his team's underachievement and its $75 million payroll. The general manager for another team said the Suns' goal in the next two weeks before the trade deadline was to clear $40 million off the 2009-10 payroll.

Multiple GMs around the league report talking to Suns GM Steve Kerr and/or assistant GM David Griffin about deals involving virtually everyone on the Phoenix roster not named Steve Nash.

According to sources that have had direct talks with the Suns, the team is looking at every option on the table that brings back cap relief and young players or draft picks. So far, Phoenix has refused to consider much else, shutting down a number of inquiries that would bring players without expiring contracts back to the Suns.

At the center of the trade storm is Amare Stoudemire, the starting power forward for the Western Conference All-Stars. Not far behind is Shaquille O'Neal, also a Western Conference All-Star. Even recently acquired Jason Richardson has been discussed, according to another GM who has had talks with the Suns.

The feeding frenzy that this has caused in the league is extraordinary. It's not often All-Star bigs are on the market this time of year. However, it's also terrible timing for the Suns. The economic situation is causing a number of owners to pause before agreeing to trade expiring contracts for long-term ones.

Even more problematic for the Suns is the current perception of Stoudemire around the league. A year ago, teams would have been willing to give up young All-Stars for the 26-year-old, super-athletic big man. Now? With Stoudemire playing indifferently, and with concerns about his impending free agency in the summer of 2010, a number of GMs are asking, "Is he worth the trouble?"

The Suns know it. I've been told that they know they won't be able to get equal talent in return. At this point, they're content with cap relief and a young player who could eventually blossom down the road.

Potential trades for Amare

BULLS: Tyrus Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha, Cedric Simmons and Drew Gooden

Why they'd do it: For the Bulls, this is likely a no-brainer. They've needed a frontcourt presence like Amare for years. Although he's not the classic low-post banger or rebounder that would be ideal for Chicago, he's great in the open floor and looks like a perfect complement to Derrick Rose and Luol Deng.

For the Suns, this trade would save them nearly $9 million next season and give them two young players with potential. Although neither Thomas nor Sefolosha has shined the way the Bulls had envisoned when they drafted them, their defensive abilities and athleticism would be welcome in Phoenix.

Why they wouldn't: Coach Vinny Del Negro spent several years in the Phoenix front office before taking the job in Chicago. He knows Amare and might be steering GM John Paxson away from acquiring him.

This deal wouldn't give the Suns much in the way of cap savings. They might want to deal with a team that can save them more money down the road.

KNICKS: David Lee, Nate Robinson and Stephon Marbury

Why they'd do it: The Knicks want to lure LeBron to New York and have planned on trying to add two superstars in the summer of 2010. If they can get one now … why not do it? Adding Stoudemire to the mix would electrify the fan base in New York, and you know Mike D'Antoni knows how to get the best out of Amare. To make this deal work under the cap, the Suns would have to include Barbosa. But no worries, the Knicks need guards, too.

Lee is the type of player Kerr is looking for. He rebounds, plays defense, hustles on every play and is still young. Obviously, the Suns would waive Marbury quickly to end his second stop in Phoenix and be able to drop $10-12 million in payroll next summer.

Why they wouldn't: If the Knicks add Barbosa and Stoudemire, they would have room to pursue LeBron in the summer of 2010 but no one else. Are they really ready to put all their eggs in that one basket?

As for the Suns, if money is the main issue, will they be able to keep Lee and Robinson? Both are restricted free agents this summer, and Lee, especially, likely will command a rich deal … perhaps too rich for Sarver's wallet.

HEAT: Michael Beasley and Shawn Marion

Why they'd do it: It sounds strange to hear of the Heat potentially doing a second-straight trade deadline deal with Phoenix, especially since it involves sending Marion back to the Suns, but this time Miami would get what it really wants, a young big to pair with Dwyane Wade. Wade and Stoudemire would be probably the most athletic tandem in the league and great cornerstones for the franchise.

The Suns could let Marion's large contract expire, then try out Beasley in Stoudemire's place. Beasley is an incredible talent and probably the best prospect they could get for Stoudemire.

Why they wouldn't: It's hard to see what would stop the Heat from pulling the trigger. The deal would almost be too good to be true. The biggest downside is that the Heat would have to take back Alando Tucker and Goran Dragic to make the salaries work.

For the Suns, it's not a bad deal if Beasley's as good as everyone thought he was coming out of college.

THUNDER: Jeff Green, Joe Smith and Desmond Mason

Why they'd do it: The Thunder have been methodically collecting assets and expiring contracts. But even though Oklahoma City will have lots of cap room this summer, will anyone want to go there?

Adding Stoudemire to the mix would immediately jump-start the fledgling franchise. The potential of a core of Stoudemire, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook would be, in a word, awesome.

Green would be the draw for Phoenix. Although not everyone in the league is in love with Green, but after Beasley, Green might be the best young player the Suns could get in a Stoudemire trade. And the expiring contracts of Smith and Mason would allow the Suns to clear another $10 million off their cap this summer.

Why they wouldn't: The Thunder would struggle to re-sign Stoudemire in 2010, especially if they weren't a contender by then. If a big-market team such as the Knicks or Heat came courting, OKC could lose him for nothing, setting back the franchise.

The Suns like Green, but is he enough? He's been frustratingly inconsistent and just doesn't look like the type of player you can build around.

PISTONS: Amir Johnson and Rasheed Wallace

Why they'd do it: Joe Dumars has the best track record in the league of rehabilitating players other teams have given up on. Under his wing, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace thrived. Could he do the same for Stoudemire? Add Amare to young gun Rodney Stuckey and great team players such as Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince, and the Pistons are a force again in the East.

The Suns get Wallace's expiring contract, plus they get Johnson, a young big with a ton of potential.

Why they wouldn't: If they stand pat, the Pistons potentially will have $20 million under the cap this summer with little competition for big-time free agents. If Amare were to bolt Detroit in 2010 or fail to fit in, the Pistons would have swung and missed on their best chance to build another contender.

The Suns wouldn't be getting much here. Wallace comes off the books this summer, but is Johnson good enough to be a difference-maker? He's been a little ordinary in Detroit this year, raising the question, how much longer can we focus on his "potential" and wait for it to be realized?

CAVS: J.J. Hickson and Wally Szczerbiak

Why they'd do it: The Cavs have been trying to land another star in Cleveland to play alongside LeBron James. Stoudemire would be a grand slam for them.

The Suns would get back $13 million in cap relief and land a young power forward many NBA scouts are very high on. Hickson hasn't done much yet, but many scouts see him as a potential star big man.

Why they wouldn't: Coach Mike Brown is committed to defense. Amare isn't. I wonder how that would work out.

The Suns wouldn't be getting a sure thing in exchange for Stoudemire. As desperate as they might be to turn the team around, are they really that desperate?


GRIZZLIES: Mike Conley, Hakim Warrick and Darko Milicic

Why they'd do it: The Grizzlies desperately need a power forward to pair with Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo. Stoudemire would give them three of the best young players in the league and bring real hope to Memphis.

The Suns would come away with some talent, although they would undoubtedly try to get the Grizzlies to put Gay in the deal. Conley could be the eventual heir to Steve Nash at the point, Warrick is a solid role player and Milicic can block shots and rebound when he's healthy.

Why they wouldn't: It's hard to imagine Memphis re-signing Stoudemire in the summer of 2010, given its reputation for being reluctant to spend. So trading Conley, Warrick and Milicic is one thing; gambling Gay to rent Stoudemire for a season and a half is a risk the Grizzlies are unlikely to take.

The Suns, meanwhile, want salary-cap relief as part of a return package for Stoudemire and this deal offers the least of any listed here. Only Warrick's contract comes off the books this summer.

[Heat3]

Trading away Caron Butler is one of the most painful moves (for me) the Heat has done. Luckily it resulted in the 2006 Championship. I'd hate to go through the same thing with Beasley for a guy like Amare. I can kind of accept it for Bosh...but I know we'll all regret it Beasley isn't on our team in 3 years.

[Dresta]

Trading him for Bosh is one thing, but for a defensive sieve with attitude problems with a player option in 2010/11 is just not worth it. Looking at some of the garbage Chad Ford thinks could get Amare, what we're giving up in that trade scenario would be a huge steal for Pheonix.