Amare Stoudemire thread (out for season? update pg 35)

[unowen85]

Okay. If we're rounding up, then Bosh is 7'0.

[canefandynasty]

What do they do that Beasley cannot? Bosh is not known for being clutch. Beasley has kept us in games in the 4th quarter. Look at the other day when we played the Pistons. You could also YouTube part 9 of the game at Lakers for further proof.

Beasley is 6'8. Bosh is 6'11. That is a significant difference in height.

What difference does it make? He is still a terrible defender and last I checked, you don't rebound or defend with your HEAD. Beasley has just about the same wingspan as Joakim Noah and Al Horford.

Let's get it straight: If I was forced to trade for either Bosh or Amare, I would chose Bosh in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't see it as much of an upgrade (especially on post defense)

[salqaddoumi]

last year Amare was like 25 and 9 on 59% shooting.... then they trade for Shaq which ends up in reduced touches for him, you can see why he'd be upset

That was when he could barrell through a wide open lane to dunk the ball in Mike D'Antoni's system. Shaq or no Shaq, Amare would not be putting those numbers up again this season.

[canefandynasty]

Amare is a freaking beast, Beasley will be good , but amare is 26, an athletic freak, can score any time he wants.. and imo.. he can rebound and defend better if hes happy... just imagine Wade and amare along with the very youg core of the Heat.... imo, riley should pull the trigger on this trade....

Dont judge amare by this years performance, hes just frustrated and just cruising through until porter is fired, Shaq is traded or he is finally moved...

You're not considering the fact that this is the first time that Amare has ever played in an halfcourt system. Marion also thrived in Dantonis system but how is he looking now with the Heat?

The point is a guy like Beasley, who will get his shot off no matter who he's playing with, would be better suited in the halfcourt than Amare.

[Lane1974]

yeah this season he is a mere 21 and 8 next to Shaq in a slow down system

don't make him out to be garbage

[CaliHeat]

Man I love Riley, the Heat are linked to JON, Bosh, Amare and Chandler for freaking Marion. Yes Beasley would have to be involved in an Amare or Bosh deal but the fact that the Heat are the team being mentioned as interested in all of them just shows me how good Riley is.

[canefandynasty]

yeah this season he is a mere 21 and 8 next to Shaq in a slow down system

don't make him out to be garbage

And you think Beasley couldn't do the same thing? If you're so contented with those stats then Miami should try and go for a guy like David West. At least he plays defense

[BigDaddyPR]

yeah this season he is a mere 21 and 8 next to Shaq in a slow down system

don't make him out to be garbage

Exactly, and thats an unmotivated Amare, i see most of the Suns games, and hes soo athletic and talented, he also has a killer mid range shot now too that he developed, i honestly dont see how you can pass at a player like this whos only 26. IMO this is the trade the Heat need.. not the JO not the Miller trades... If Amare is available, you go get him.... IMO... of course...

[Mourning_Heat_33]

I've said a while back that my hunch is that Riley makes a Zo or Shaq like move, in that sense that we come out of nowhere (sort of) and trade for a big time big man, someone that's a franchise cornerstone to go with Wade. Just like we traded for Zo on the eve of that 95-96 season. And just like we won the Shaq sweepstakes of 04. They were both disgruntled and extremely talented. These rumors are feeding that hunch.

If we can do the two trades of Blount and Beasley for Amare and Marion for Chandler, it would be absurd. We could let all the other teams battle over the 2010 pool and focus on keeping our guys and building a young, championship squad.

Chalmers, Quinn
Wade, Cook
Jones, Wright
Amare, Haslem
Chandler, Anthony

Wade is 27 now. He will be 29 in 2010. We really should focus on now and not let the specter of 2010 and the chance we MIGHT be able to get Amare or Bosh or Chandler or whoever that summer Let's do it now.

[shaqfan1]

Per 36 minute stats:

Amare-
20.5 ppg
7.9 rpg
2.0 apg
1.1 bpg

Beasley-
19.8 ppg
8.0 rpg
1.2 apg
0.6 bpg

Not trying to say Beasley is as good as Amare. Amare is obviously the better player, but just like Beasley, he's not a good defender and just an average rebounder. Besides size, he gives us nothing that Beasley couldn't. Plus, we'd be losing Marion also. Is it worth losing Beasley and Marion for someone who probably wouldn't make us a lot better? Also, who's to say Amare's stats won't fall once he doesn't have Nash setting him up?

[mopper8]

With all this trade talk, I thought I'd pop in a minute and say hi. Hi!

My thoughts are more along the lines of Heat1114's...we're not winning anything important without another scorer alongside Wade. Amare is the most talented scoring big on the block right now (IMO even moreso than Bosh, who may or may not be on the block). I don't understand concerns about him not thriving outside D'Antoni's system...he's the 14th leading scorer in the league in a half-court offense even though he's not a true 1st option (not even getting 14 shots/game right now). Look at the FG attempts of the 13 players who score more/game than he does...nobody shoots as little as he does. He's #5 (!) in the league in points-per-shot. The players most comparable in ppg and pps? Dwight Howard and Yao Ming. Stat is supremely talented on the offensive end, regardless of the system.

Do we need a bigger body in the middle? For sure. Are Bosh, JO, etc an answer there? Not really, IMO. JO would be great if he were playing like he was a 5 years ago, sure, but he isn't, nor is he reliably healthy. He hasn't put together a complete season since 03-04.

I'd also add that Stat is unbelievable in pick/roll situations. That is a huge strength of his. He and Wade could be the most dynamic, athletic, and unstoppable pick/roll combination the league has ever seen. I don't think that's hyperbole, they'd have that potential. You have two players capable of 25ppg who's pick/roll skills compliment one another, I'd take that over even Stock/Malone (should Wade/Stat get the chemistry...we are talking potential here, not immediate reality)

Stat would make Wade better by stretching the D and drawing attention at the elbows. He can pull bigs away from the rim. Wade can make him better by making those bigs peal off him to help, leaving Stat room to work at his sweet spot. He fits right in to our offense and I'd expect his ppg to go up in Miami.

I think the best-case scenario for Beasely on offense is to end up a scorer of Amare's talent. But its certainly possible that he never makes it there, and tops out a little lower. Defensively, there's not much day-light between them, though Amare is bigger and used to banging with other bigs now, whereas Beasely has to grow into that still (in body and mind). Amare certainly could be a good defensive big with the right coaching.

Defensively, we get a little worse losing Marion, sure. Long term, though, I think it's easier to find a big body who can board and body-up opposing bigs (a Dasagna Diop/Erik Dampier/Biedrins type of big) to fill out the roster and pair with Amare than it would be to find anyone of Amare's caliber on offense. There simply is no one player quick fix right now...how many big men in the league can provide deterrents on dribble penetration, body-up opposing big men, rebound, and score effectively in the low post? Not many, and none are available for trade (no, JO does not fit that description). And just adding a defensive big right now does not clearly separate us from the Atlantas/Detroits of the league...whereas Wade/Amare is a combo you can build around now and compete for a title with as soon as next year.

My .02, at least.

[ChilliWilly15]

Per 36 minute stats:

Amare-
20.5 ppg
7.9 rpg
2.0 apg
1.1 bpg

Beasley-
19.8 ppg
8.0 rpg
1.2 apg
0.6 bpg

Not trying to say Beasley is as good as Amare. Amare is obviously the better player, but just like Beasley, he's not a good defender and just an average rebounder. Besides size, he gives us nothing that Beasley couldn't. Plus, we'd be losing Marion also. Is it worth losing Beasley and Marion for someone who probably wouldn't make us a lot better? Also, who's to say Amare's stats won't fall once he doesn't have Nash setting him up?

WOW SO A PLAYER WHO GETS HALF HIS MINUTES PLAYING BACKUP PLAYERS IN THE EAST IS ALMOST COMPARABLE TO A 35+MPG PLAYER IN THE WEST?!??!!?!?!?

I hate people that use stats so inappropriately. Next time compare Amare's 115 career ORtg (offensive rating higher the better) and his 104 DRtg (lower the better) to Beasley's 98 and 106 when looking at how much fewer minutes Beasley's plays and his level of competition.

Also, I am a fan of neither team. I hope Riley is stupid enough to decline a Marion+Beasley swap for Amare, so the bulls can swoop in and trade for Amare.

Chalmers+ Wade+ Amare and scrubs compete in the East immediately. Winning now also increases the odds of Wade not bolting, which is a real probability.

[ChilliWilly15]

With all this trade talk, I thought I'd pop in a minute and say hi. Hi!

My thoughts are more along the lines of Heat1114's...we're not winning anything important without another scorer alongside Wade. Amare is the most talented scoring big on the block right now (IMO even moreso than Bosh, who may or may not be on the block). I don't understand concerns about him not thriving outside D'Antoni's system...he's the 14th leading scorer in the league in a half-court offense even though he's not a true 1st option (not even getting 14 shots/game right now). Look at the FG attempts of the 13 players who score more/game than he does...nobody shoots as little as he does. He's #5 (!) in the league in points-per-shot. The players most comparable in ppg and pps? Dwight Howard and Yao Ming. Stat is supremely talented on the offensive end, regardless of the system.

Do we need a bigger body in the middle? For sure. Are Bosh, JO, etc an answer there? Not really, IMO. JO would be great if he were playing like he was a 5 years ago, sure, but he isn't, nor is he reliably healthy. He hasn't put together a complete season since 03-04.

I'd also add that Stat is unbelievable in pick/roll situations. That is a huge strength of his. He and Wade could be the most dynamic, athletic, and unstoppable pick/roll combination the league has ever seen. I don't think that's hyperbole, they'd have that potential. You have two players capable of 25ppg who's pick/roll skills compliment one another, I'd take that over even Stock/Malone (should Wade/Stat get the chemistry...we are talking potential here, not immediate reality)

Stat would make Wade better by stretching the D and drawing attention at the elbows. He can pull bigs away from the rim. Wade can make him better by making those bigs peal off him to help, leaving Stat room to work at his sweet spot. He fits right in to our offense and I'd expect his ppg to go up in Miami.

I think the best-case scenario for Beasely on offense is to end up a scorer of Amare's talent. But its certainly possible that he never makes it there, and tops out a little lower. Defensively, there's not much day-light between them, though Amare is bigger and used to banging with other bigs now, whereas Beasely has to grow into that still (in body and mind). Amare certainly could be a good defensive big with the right coaching.

Defensively, we get a little worse losing Marion, sure. Long term, though, I think it's easier to find a big body who can board and body-up opposing bigs (a Dasagna Diop/Erik Dampier/Biedrins type of big) to fill out the roster and pair with Amare than it would be to find anyone of Amare's caliber on offense. There simply is no one player quick fix right now...how many big men in the league can provide deterrents on dribble penetration, body-up opposing big men, rebound, and score effectively in the low post? Not many, and none are available for trade (no, JO does not fit that description). And just adding a defensive big right now does not clearly separate us from the Atlantas/Detroits of the league...whereas Wade/Amare is a combo you can build around now and compete for a title with as soon as next year.

My .02, at least.

This is a good post. The fellating of Beasley is ridiculous.

Amare is quite simply the best pick and roll big man in the NBA. Wade+Amare would be INSANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE with it.

[Lane1974]

With all this trade talk, I thought I'd pop in a minute and say hi. Hi!

My thoughts are more along the lines of Heat1114's...we're not winning anything important without another scorer alongside Wade. Amare is the most talented scoring big on the block right now (IMO even moreso than Bosh, who may or may not be on the block). I don't understand concerns about him not thriving outside D'Antoni's system...he's the 14th leading scorer in the league in a half-court offense even though he's not a true 1st option (not even getting 14 shots/game right now). Look at the FG attempts of the 13 players who score more/game than he does...nobody shoots as little as he does. He's #5 (!) in the league in points-per-shot. The players most comparable in ppg and pps? Dwight Howard and Yao Ming. Stat is supremely talented on the offensive end, regardless of the system.

Do we need a bigger body in the middle? For sure. Are Bosh, JO, etc an answer there? Not really, IMO. JO would be great if he were playing like he was a 5 years ago, sure, but he isn't, nor is he reliably healthy. He hasn't put together a complete season since 03-04.

I'd also add that Stat is unbelievable in pick/roll situations. That is a huge strength of his. He and Wade could be the most dynamic, athletic, and unstoppable pick/roll combination the league has ever seen. I don't think that's hyperbole, they'd have that potential. You have two players capable of 25ppg who's pick/roll skills compliment one another, I'd take that over even Stock/Malone (should Wade/Stat get the chemistry...we are talking potential here, not immediate reality)

Stat would make Wade better by stretching the D and drawing attention at the elbows. He can pull bigs away from the rim. Wade can make him better by making those bigs peal off him to help, leaving Stat room to work at his sweet spot. He fits right in to our offense and I'd expect his ppg to go up in Miami.

I think the best-case scenario for Beasely on offense is to end up a scorer of Amare's talent. But its certainly possible that he never makes it there, and tops out a little lower. Defensively, there's not much day-light between them, though Amare is bigger and used to banging with other bigs now, whereas Beasely has to grow into that still (in body and mind). Amare certainly could be a good defensive big with the right coaching.

Defensively, we get a little worse losing Marion, sure. Long term, though, I think it's easier to find a big body who can board and body-up opposing bigs (a Dasagna Diop/Erik Dampier/Biedrins type of big) to fill out the roster and pair with Amare than it would be to find anyone of Amare's caliber on offense. There simply is no one player quick fix right now...how many big men in the league can provide deterrents on dribble penetration, body-up opposing big men, rebound, and score effectively in the low post? Not many, and none are available for trade (no, JO does not fit that description). And just adding a defensive big right now does not clearly separate us from the Atlantas/Detroits of the league...whereas Wade/Amare is a combo you can build around now and compete for a title with as soon as next year.

My .02, at least.

\

in the words of Stewie Griffin: who are you again? I want to say your name is Alan?

in any event to the conquering hero that is Mopper

[heat4life]

Did I just read a Mopper post?

[unowen85]

Ten minutes ago, I might've been the biggest Amar'e hater on the planet. But after reading that post, Riley, what the hell are you waiting for? Wade/Amar'e is going to be dynastic.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Wade and Amare would be the best duo in the NBA......think of the pick and roll possibilities. Im all for this

[Eddie24]

But if either one bolts in 2010, the other may choose to bolt also leaving Miami a gutted franchise and in the lottery for the next decade.

[ChilliWilly15]

But if either one bolts in 2010, the other may choose to bolt also leaving Miami a gutted franchise and in the lottery for the next decade.

The trade would be contingent on Amare restructuring obviously.

[shaqfan1]

WOW SO A PLAYER WHO GETS HALF HIS MINUTES PLAYING BACKUP PLAYERS IN THE EAST IS ALMOST COMPARABLE TO A 35+MPG PLAYER IN THE WEST?!??!!?!?!?

I hate people that use stats so inappropriately. Next time compare Amare's 115 career ORtg (offensive rating higher the better) and his 104 DRtg (lower the better) to Beasley's 98 and 106 when looking at how much fewer minutes Beasley's plays and his level of competition.

Also, I am a fan of neither team. I hope Riley is stupid enough to decline a Marion+Beasley swap for Amare, so the bulls can swoop in and trade for Amare.

Chalmers+ Wade+ Amare and scrubs compete in the East immediately. Winning now also increases the odds of Wade not bolting, which is a real probability.

Yes, you're right. Amare is a better player than Beasley. Thanks for repeating what I said in my post.

Now tell me how Amare is better than Beasley and Marion, which is the actual trade. I don't believe Amare is worth giving up Beasley and Marion (and eventually, the player we would sign with the money we save from Marion coming off the books). I'd do the trade for most other top power forwards (like some of the rumored Bosh trades), but not for Amare. A player with an attitude problem, who doesn't rebound or play defense especially well, that is always looking to get his first is not the type of guy I would want on the team. Shawn Marion and to a lesser extent Joe Johnson aren't on the Suns anymore because Amare had a problem with them. People need to realize once we get Amare, there is no 2010 plan. We would have a Wade and Amare duo with not much flexibility to do much else if it doesn't work out between the two. I'd rather keep my options open going into 2010.