Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Bucks deny Pistons to talk to Horst

[-Jragon-]

they just want something different, even if it's the same (or worse).

Ironically we just went through this with removing Bud too. And now the perfect being the enemy of good philosophy is creeping into the playing ranks.

Given Midds just carried a sorry arse squad through the Playoffs that would struggle to win 30 reg season games, I find this conversation baffling.

Carried us straight out of the playoffs by losing 4 out of 6 games.

What he can do offensively 1v1 when he has the ball 75% of the time is impressive but it's not winning basketball. We need plays ran, defense, speed, dunks, open 3s, get to the ft line, etc.

[KidA24]

Speaking of Brook..his 3p% would be 5 points higher at least if he stood at the line.. his overhead release is ridiculously high.. who is he scared of that's going to block it that he has to be an extra 5 ft back?

Tell me you don't understand NBA spacing without telling me you don't understand NBA spacing.

Keep guys out of the lane for Giannis, got it. Shooting 40%+ would also do that. How many 30ft 3 pointers did Brook make in the playoffs? It's not enough of a threat. He should just get more deadly and a little quicker release right at the line and dudes will be up there. Not one other team has a C trying to shoot halfway to the logo; must be overkill. Miles Turner and Horford killed us in the playoffs and we couldn't get out to them --- right at the 3 point line.

If I told you he made 57 of them, it wouldn't matter to you because you don't actually care. You just pick something to bitch about whether or not its true.

[-Jragon-]

We lost to a hated, much younger team.. everyone is on trial

[-Jragon-]

Tell me you don't understand NBA spacing without telling me you don't understand NBA spacing.

Keep guys out of the lane for Giannis, got it. Shooting 40%+ would also do that. How many 30ft 3 pointers did Brook make in the playoffs? It's not enough of a threat. He should just get more deadly and a little quicker release right at the line and dudes will be up there. Not one other team has a C trying to shoot halfway to the logo; must be overkill. Miles Turner and Horford killed us in the playoffs and we couldn't get out to them --- right at the 3 point line.

If I told you he made 57 of them, it wouldn't matter to you because you don't actually care. You just pick something to bitch about whether or not its true.

Just checked: it seems that the futher back he goes, the lower his % goes. Geez, that's downright logical; who would have thought that. He's 72% from 5t and in.

[fansinceforever]

Just saw kind of a crazy stat...

Only 6 starters remain in the NBA playoffs that are 30 or older. Rudy, Conley, Siakam, Kyrie, KCP and Jrue.

[-Jragon-]

Especially on trial are people starting that are over 30 years old, because there are only a few left in the playoffs. From my standpoint, the MAIN thing on trial is sloppy play, decision making, fundamentals and teamwork because, to me, those are where veteran players should have an advantage. Did Doc really tell Brook to fire up 30 ft 3 pointers vs Indy when he's killing them down low? Or is that just a vet player making a bad decision? That's on trial right now. Even without Giannis we had enough to beat that scrub team but we didn't. Why? That's what needs to be investigated. Some of it will hurt because we love out team; but there are hard questions that need to be asked.

[-Jragon-]

Just saw kind of a crazy stat...

Only 6 starters remain in the NBA playoffs that are 30 or older. Rudy, Conley, Siakam, Kyrie, KCP and Jrue.

I wonder if the younger guys are also just more coachable, more likely to actually run plays and less likely to go rogue. Young players aren't going to cry much if they get benched for a bad play or bad decision. That might be ANOTHER reason to trim some of these older slower players.

[Bernman]

Just saw kind of a crazy stat...

Only 6 starters remain in the NBA playoffs that are 30 or older. Rudy, Conley, Siakam, Kyrie, KCP and Jrue.

If the Bucks had advanced, they'd have had over half of all rest of the 8 teams combined.

Horst has flirted w/ having this problem for each of the last 5 yrs. And he's vacillated between just under & much over the threshold. Just has never learned, then Doc coming in compounded matters. Fire Horst, & give Doc no choice to get much younger.

[pifhluk23]

Young guys are hungry, Old Guys are just collecting a paycheck (at least 90% of them)

[raferfenix]

Orlando is another team like OKC who has gobs of cap space and young players / picks they could offer for Bobby or Brook etc.

Immediate cap relief could be particularly valuable to certain teams in multi-team deals.

The Magic's reported interest in Paul George has me wondering whether they'd jump at the chance to get Middleton for the bird in hand too (whether there's a return worth us doing it is a different question).

[German Athens]

I really do wonder what the price point is on herb jones. I think they want to pay Murphy, and that’ll be expensive, but then they’d have Murphy, herb, BI and Zion all occupying the forward spots.

Rumors seem to be that they’ll trade BI, but if they didn’t, does that mean herb would be the odd man out?

It’s hard to think of multi-pick packages for a guy who doesn’t do a ton offensively, and has a very limited ceiling on that end, while also not having the presence of someone like Gobert defensively.

Would two firsts do the trick? Would brook, 23, and the ‘31 first do it? Would we?

Then Bobby for WCJ.

We’d only then be able to offer 33, pat and a ~10M TPE after that, but maybe that would be enticing enough for a team trying to shed salary.

There were rumors Minny wanted to cut salary. Would they do NAW for a TPE and 33?

I’m not sold on these deals, I’m just throwing other things out there.

*Edit: I thought NAW was making 9M, but I see it’s only 4. That cap savings wouldn’t be much for Minny.

[paulpressey25]

We waited too long to trade Jabari, and we waited too long to trade Michael Redd.

You've been saying we waited too long on Khris since like 2017 when the first Middleton alert was sent out. We got three all-star games, a championship, countless Bojan Bogdanovic trades and 1 missed playoffs since then. Sometimes you just didn't wait too long .

Let's get the facts straight. In the summer of 2019, a few of us preferred that the Bucks renounce Midds Bird rights, use said money to retain Brogdon, and sign Bojan Bogdanovic to the contract the Pacers got him for. All doable under the cap, with the understanding that maybe Brogdon was impossible, due to his issues with our front office. If that hypothetical had played out, and we had Brogdon and Bojan the past five years do we win a title? Don't know. Middleton however played like Kawhi in the 2021 playoffs, so probably not. That said, the concept wasn't entirely crackpot. You may not have liked it, but it might have worked out as well or better.

So five years later, we now come to 2024. Again, I get it. People want to retain Middleton. I don't want to give him away, but if there is a good offer out there, I personally want to offload potential injury risk, and pivot to a younger team around Giannis.

[fansinceforever]

Just saw kind of a crazy stat...

Only 6 starters remain in the NBA playoffs that are 30 or older. Rudy, Conley, Siakam, Kyrie, KCP and Jrue.

I wonder if the younger guys are also just more coachable, more likely to actually run plays and less likely to go rogue. Young players aren't going to cry much if they get benched for a bad play or bad decision. That might be ANOTHER reason to trim some of these older slower players.

I think the speed of the game has gotten considerably faster recently (last few years) and younger guys are having an impact earlier.

[buckboy]

We waited too long to trade Jabari, and we waited too long to trade Michael Redd.

You've been saying we waited too long on Khris since like 2017 when the first Middleton alert was sent out. We got three all-star games, a championship, countless Bojan Bogdanovic trades and 1 missed playoffs since then. Sometimes you just didn't wait too long .

Let's get the facts straight. In the summer of 2019, a few of us preferred that the Bucks renounce Midds Bird rights, use said money to retain Brogdon, and sign Bojan Bogdanovic to the contract the Pacers got him for. All doable under the cap, with the understanding that maybe Brogdon was impossible, due to his issues with our front office. If that hypothetical had played out, and we had Brogdon and Bojan the past five years do we win a title? Don't know. Middleton however played like Kawhi in the 2021 playoffs, so probably not. That said, the concept wasn't entirely crackpot. You may not have liked it, but it might have worked out as well or better.

So five years later, we now come to 2024. Again, I get it. People want to retain Middleton. I don't want to give him away, but if there is a good offer out there, I personally want to offload potential injury risk, and pivot to a younger team around Giannis.

A very good argument that we did the right thing.

[-Jragon-]

Just saw kind of a crazy stat...

Only 6 starters remain in the NBA playoffs that are 30 or older. Rudy, Conley, Siakam, Kyrie, KCP and Jrue.

I wonder if the younger guys are also just more coachable, more likely to actually run plays and less likely to go rogue. Young players aren't going to cry much if they get benched for a bad play or bad decision. That might be ANOTHER reason to trim some of these older slower players.

I think the speed of the game has gotten considerably faster recently (last few years) and younger guys are having an impact earlier.

Good point. And IF teams do have a slow player getting a lot of minutes he's a center. SF is pretty pivotal when it comes to switching at the perimeter and closing out shooters.

[ShootingtheJ]

I wonder if the younger guys are also just more coachable, more likely to actually run plays and less likely to go rogue. Young players aren't going to cry much if they get benched for a bad play or bad decision. That might be ANOTHER reason to trim some of these older slower players.

I think the speed of the game has gotten considerably faster recently (last few years) and younger guys are having an impact earlier.

Good point. And IF teams do have a slow player getting a lot of minutes he's a center. SF is pretty pivotal when it comes to switching at the perimeter and closing out shooters.

Yup, the 2 things that Middleton excels at defensively. Shooters shoot poorly when shooting over Middleton.

[Ron Swanson]

I'd obviously prefer to keep him, but if Middleton needs to go in order to bring in whatever this team's 2021 version of the Denver Aaron Gordon trade is, then I'm fine doing it. Problem of course continues to be so many people are now all aboard this "get younger at all costs" mentality that these, to put it politely, ham-fisted trade ideas are reflecting that. It can't be for picks and second year players. This "young players are more important than ever in winning championships" is just reactionary thinking based on the older stars (Lebron, Steph, KD) finally aging out.

[fansinceforever]

Can't speak for everyone but PP and I are definitely not saying trade Middleton for anyone as long they're young. I just would like someone to explain to me how we're able to add player(s) that move their feet defensively while adding something on offense without trading a pretty damn good player.

These Brook and Bobby deals that add multiple picks for us to then move for said player or just bring in multiple players that are as good or better seem a little far fetched...

[bdpecore]

When you say look at Denver, are you referencing Michael Porter Jr or Jamal Murray as a "defender" in their lineup, just so we're clear.

Porter is now solid defender. And Jokic is very solid. Only Murray is bad defender in that starting 5 IMO
Minnesota also has only KAT as bad defender. Othe 4 are very good at defense.
We will be able to survive Dame as our bad defender. Dame, Midds, Beasly was so wrong.

Jokic is solid? Nope. Smart, but can't defend his man, nor the pick and roll. He gets by because some teams have very limited bigs, but he can get killed versus the best.

There isn't a metric that says Khris is a bad defender

Khris has never been an overly athletic player. Bucks fans have been complaining about him being a slow footed plodder for years.

He plays an old school game and relies on his high BBIQ and plethora of moves to keep defenders guessing on offense. Defensively, he uses positioning, his length and good anticipation to keep quick/more athletic players in front of him. Ultimately, his game is perfect for an aging player as it’s not reliant on his agility.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I loathe Jimmy, but if we want to do "something different"..... Is there a play to get him here where is "stupidly, locked in" and go all-in with consequences to the future be damned?