Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Bucks deny Pistons to talk to Horst

[trwi7]

Athletic, floor spacing big and increase our average age? Sign Thon imo.

[emunney]

Owczarski is saying they are a second apron team and that they won't be able to trade the 2031 pick.

I'm sure he's right. I'd have sworn we snuck under, but I don't cover the team for a living.

ETA spotrac says we're way over, so I don't know what I was thinking.

Someone reported we were under because Khris will not reach his remaining incentives when we were eliminated.

Yeah, this is where it would help to know how they're calculating the apron allocations. Khris had 2.3m in unlikely incentives that for sure would have counted before he didn't activate them. But the CBA says that the team apron level includes *all* performance bonuses, and I can't find any language that says they go away if the bonuses aren't conveyed.

[tydett]

I'm sure he's right. I'd have sworn we snuck under, but I don't cover the team for a living.

ETA spotrac says we're way over, so I don't know what I was thinking.

The whole thing seems so convoluted, who even knows. I wasn't trying to call you out, just that he was saying they're over. I thought we were under at one point too, and it seemed like the first round exit might have helped keep us under, but I probably know less about it than anyone else on here lol

Eric Pincus has the Bucks over the 2nd apron by ~1.7m and I think he's got a better handle on it than anybody. His numbers jibe with spotrac's. Neither one shows their work, which is annoying to me because it means I can't do it independently, but that's not their problem.

And yes, insanely convoluted. It was bad enough before they added a bunch of layers to it.

I think I hate CJ McCollum more than any other player not because of anything related to his game or his podcast, but because his leadership agreed to this **** of a CBA with the second apron so they could get weed tests dropped and gambling advertisements.

[emunney]

For those who've expressed curiosity. We ended the season below the 2nd apron, so these rules apply only to transactions that would leave us over it. That also means our 2031 pick is available to trade. (ETA: we were actually over the second apron, so we're ****, but the point about applying to transactions that would leave us over the apron is still true. We'd just have to drop > 1.7m in the trade.)

When the new league year starts, and Giannis and Dame's salaries increase, we'll be substantially over, so our window for most trades that aggregate outgoing players functionally ends at the end of June. We're also going to be limited in the kinds of trades that are often made around draft time that aren't finalized until the next league year.

Read on Twitter

Two questions I’m hoping you can answer:

1) Does this mean we can’t trade our pick during the draft with one of our vets attached as salary matching, because that’s technically done after the draft, so we’d be aggregating two salaries?

2) Would we be able to use a TPE with a players outbound salary, or does that count as aggregating player salaries as well?

1) Yeah, because we don't have a pick next year, we technically can't trade the pick, we can only trade the draft rights to the player we select, and FRPs count as team salary immediately upon selection. I suspect that means they'd count as a salary in trades, too, in which case they couldn't be aggregated with another salary, but I'm not sure.

2) No. This one I'm sure of, because you could never aggregate a TPE with a player salary. This doesn't apply to us anyway because we're definitely over the first apron and thus can't carry over any TPEs.

[LuessiT]

A player that I could see fitting next to Lillard is Suggs. He shouldn’t be too easy to get, but something around Middleton for Suggs/Isaac is not outside of the realm of possibility.
Dort is also high on my list and could be in play, especially if OKC is aiming for bigger targets.
I’m still open to buy (very) low on Poole, but I don’t see the Wizzards willing to dump him with the value I’d be comfortable with buying.
I like the idea of Beef Stew next to Giannis as they can mix and match guarding either position depending on the assignment, but tbh I haven’t seen enough Piston games to assess his ability properly. Maybe he’s just not good enough and his salary for next year far exceeds one of a role player.
WCJ is another player that fits the mold as a 4-5-hybrid, although I think he’d struggle with more physical players, which is exactly the matchup we want to keep Giannis away from.

[Ron Swanson]

I wish but I don't think Suggs is even remotely gettable. He's already one of the best 3&D two guards in the entire league. I'll co-sign any Wendell Carter trade. He's the guy to poach from Orlando for cheap.

[yb90]

For those who've expressed curiosity. We ended the season below the 2nd apron, so these rules apply only to transactions that would leave us over it. That also means our 2031 pick is available to trade. (ETA: we were actually over the second apron, so we're ****, but the point about applying to transactions that would leave us over the apron is still true. We'd just have to drop > 1.7m in the trade.)

When the new league year starts, and Giannis and Dame's salaries increase, we'll be substantially over, so our window for most trades that aggregate outgoing players functionally ends at the end of June. We're also going to be limited in the kinds of trades that are often made around draft time that aren't finalized until the next league year.

Read on Twitter

Two questions I’m hoping you can answer:

1) Does this mean we can’t trade our pick during the draft with one of our vets attached as salary matching, because that’s technically done after the draft, so we’d be aggregating two salaries?

2) Would we be able to use a TPE with a players outbound salary, or does that count as aggregating player salaries as well?

1) Yeah, because we don't have a pick next year, we technically can't trade the pick, we can only trade the draft rights to the player we select, and FRPs count as team salary immediately upon selection. I suspect that means they'd count as a salary in trades, too, in which case they couldn't be aggregated with another salary, but I'm not sure.

2) No. This one I'm sure of, because you could never aggregate a TPE with a player salary. This doesn't apply to us anyway because we're definitely over the first apron and thus can't carry over any TPEs.

How much over are the Bucks over the 1st apron? Just thinking of the possible benefits if by some miracle the Bucks could swing an Wiggins, Williams, and pick for Brook trade with OKC.

[DingleJerry]

Suggs made me think of Ivey from Det. How has he checked out on D so far? Had the tools for it coming out of college but obviously all has been a mess in Det. I recall he was in Monty's doghouse early in the year so maybe a cheaper easier gettable version of Suggs and to get a buy low hoping for being in a better team he could live up to his potential. this coming from someone who's never been high on him, just thinking of buy low things due to our lack of assets.

[FrieAaron]

I was high on Ivey so I'd definitely be interested in buying low if it were possible.

[jakecronus8]

Pimped Suggs for Middleton centric deals last offseason and this year before Midds got hurt and was dragged. Sigh.

[Ron Swanson]

Ivey's pretty terrible, but maybe it's a swing worth taking if they'd want something around Bobby and our 1st for Ivey and Grimes.

[RogerMurdock]

Bev should make his FA demand... I'll only sign your bs min salary plus raise if you subscribe to my pod.

.

[soxperry]

I'm sure he's right. I'd have sworn we snuck under, but I don't cover the team for a living.

ETA spotrac says we're way over, so I don't know what I was thinking.

Someone reported we were under because Khris will not reach his remaining incentives when we were eliminated.

Yeah, this is where it would help to know how they're calculating the apron allocations. Khris had 2.3m in unlikely incentives that for sure would have counted before he didn't activate them. But the CBA says that the team apron level includes *all* performance bonuses, and I can't find any language that says they go away if the bonuses aren't conveyed.

Dont know if theres a need for the language. Its self evident. The bonus wasnt achieved and therefore falls off. Why would they continue to count something that no longer exists?

[LuessiT]

I wish but I don't think Suggs is even remotely gettable. He's already one of the best 3&D two guards in the entire league. I'll co-sign any Wendell Carter trade. He's the guy to poach from Orlando for cheap.

He’s a RFA next year and probably looking for a near max contract. If Orlando can’t agree on a number they find reasonable, that could definitely increase his availability.
Anyways I think it’s unlikely, but not impossible. Depends on Middletons value also.

[German Athens]

So, the sequence of our trades is really important.

We could trade Brook for WCJ right now, since both our seasons are over, and that would move us under the second apron enabling us to aggregate salaries in trades during the draft. That’s unlikely, though, as most teams wait until draft night to make trades.

With that established, how long do we have to wait post salary dump trade to then be able to aggregate salaries again? Is it when a deal is agreed upon in principal, or when it’s official?

[GoldenAntlers]

Pat Bev is a good player, what he did was ridiculous, and he's been disciplined and seems genuinely contrite. If the guys in the locker room want him back, he should be back. If there are legal matters yet to be resolved, the legal system will handle that, or he'll cut a check, or whatever. He's being held accountable, relax.

This.

[ShootingtheJ]

Pimped Suggs for Middleton centric deals last offseason and this year before Midds got hurt and was dragged. Sigh.

It's OK, Suggs still has a long ways to go on offense. Id love to get him if Orlando gets a real PG and moves on from him, but I'm not giving up stars for him.

[ShootingtheJ]

Ivey's pretty terrible, but maybe it's a swing worth taking if they'd want something around Bobby and our 1st for Ivey and Grimes.

I wonder what was up with Grimes this year? Played well last year, struggled with the Knicks this year. Then he was straight up hot garbage with the Pistons. He shot 21% from the floor with the Pistons.

[Ron Swanson]

Ivey's pretty terrible, but maybe it's a swing worth taking if they'd want something around Bobby and our 1st for Ivey and Grimes.

I wonder what was up with Grimes this year? Played well last year, struggled with the Knicks this year. Then he was straight up hot garbage with the Pistons. He shot 21% from the floor with the Pistons.

He seems like a decent bounce-back candidate. First two seasons he was a legit 38% volume 3PT shooter and showed enough flashes of being a good defender that Thibs trusted him in the playoffs. I like him a lot more now that we're not talking about giving up a ton of assets for him.

[Baddy Chuck]

One guy I'm really eyeing is Moses Moody. Kerr has never really given him a chance, maybe there's a reason, but his numbers across the board are solid and every time I watch them he gives them good minutes and you wonder why he doesn't play more. Klay could be on the move so maybe it'll be a chance for him to grow there but he's a guy I would love to snag and think he has the potential to be a pretty good piece.