PG: Bucks Ground Rockets

[Bmaasse]

Say what you want about Griff, if Bud was here there is no way AJJ plays that much tonight.

He would have played Payne 30 minutes before letting AJJ play 36.

Here's your reminder that DDV was playing 20 minutes a night from night 1 as a rookie on a team that won 60 games, supplanting a veteran Tony Snell. These Bud fallacies should just stop. We're like three games removed from an AJJ DNP-CD against the Bulls.

Bud didn't play young players, because our young players were ass, but that's consistently glossed over for whatever reason.

nwora got PLENTY of burn too for a player who was ass. marjon last year stunk and started 11 games. aj green averaged more minutes last year under bud than he does this year with griff.

anyway good post. the bud haters love to tell a good story thats for sure

As a rookie through 26 games Green played about 45 minutes last year under Bud. This season he's already over 100 minutes through the same number of games. How did he avg more minutes last year?

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I'll never understand people who think it doesn't matter who starts games. Setting the tone in the first five minutes is massive. We've seen the Bucks end games halfway through the first quarter multiple times over the past five years.

We have also seen us come back after teams set the tone on us this year. Or we have blown leads where we set the tone early.

I'm under the impression of playing the best lineups the most minutes throughout the games. Usually that involves starting your 5 best players, but sometimes that is incorporating fit where you play a guy slighlty less but a bigger role with the second unit.

[HaroldinGMinor]

I'll never understand people who think it doesn't matter who starts games. Setting the tone in the first five minutes is massive. We've seen the Bucks end games halfway through the first quarter multiple times over the past five years.

In high school yes. In D1 college maybe. In the NBA? Nope.

[MiltownMadness]

You want Khris playing with Dame/Giannis as much as possible. Khris is the one that stirs the drink.

Not like it matters but the Bucks players would def laugh at you if you suggested Khris comes off the bench. Ik Manu and stuff but Khris is really well respected and it seems like trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist to suggest him coming off the bench. He can clearly go 36 minutes right now if need be, its just been a long process of getting him back to 100% but were about there now.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Read on Twitter

This kind of covers up what I'm curious about. Ime got two after this and he's the head coach. What did he say/do?

Probably something similar to this:

Watch on YouTube

[sidney lanier]

Dillon Brooks and Coach Ime Udoka
At their jobs are both quite mediocre
With their tough guy veneer
They engender no fear
Neither one is a true power broka

[Shaffty]

You guys understand Khris was bringing the ball up because they were full court press on dame right?

[German Athens]

You guys understand Khris was bringing the ball up because they were full court press on dame right?

Yep, and Giannis used that time to get in position for a post up on the side. We kept going to that look late, and producing good looks even if they weren’t Giannis’s.

Draw the double. Move the ball.

[emunney]

We never really talk about if Pop **** up by *not* starting Manu and playing him more. I mean, clearly the issue wasn't that he couldn't be effective in more minutes. I can't really remember -- did Manu *want* to play less, particularly in the RS?

[Shaffty]

You guys understand Khris was bringing the ball up because they were full court press on dame right?

Yep, and Giannis used that time to get in position for a post up on the side. We kept going to that look late, and producing good looks even if they weren’t Giannis’s.

Draw the double. Move the ball.

having a guy who can bring it up and be a threat so that dame doesnt have to fight through the full court press of Brooks is a luxury and its hilarious to be mad about it

[M-C-G]

Cam Payne is the first legit offensive back up PG we've had since before George Hill got old, but defensively he's a disaster. Unbelievably weak, he just gets bullied constantly.

And it’s real tough when he has off games like tonight, he’s the hardest guy for me to evaluate of our rotational guys, MarJon being next in line probably.

He is a vet min guy. Not hard to evaluate, sometimes vet min guys can flourish in the perfect circumstances and most the time they are treading water to not hurt the team. And paid accordingly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MoreTrife]

Read on Twitter

This kind of covers up what I'm curious about. Ime got two after this and he's the head coach. What did he say/do?

Probably something similar to this:

Watch on YouTube

Mannn is Udoka such a meathead. Who says "what are you going to do about it" in that scenario? What a meathead power tripping ****. Hate him so much.

[Prez]

I feel like I'm going crazy with this "bench Khris" stuff.

Like the Dame/Giannis pairing actually has a slightly negative net rating with Khris off the floor (-0.58 in 341 minutes) but is wiping teams off the court when Khris is in there with them (+18.05 in 264 minutes). They have an above 129 ORTG with the trio on court lol. It's borderline game breaking when they're in there together and playing well.

It could not be more obvious that despite his lack of quickness/ball-handling sloppiness that can get him into trouble at times (and looks bad on a lowlights reel), Khris is still a force multiplier and is one of the key factors in making this team completely unguardable.

Dre should start IMO, but the idea that he should replace Khris instead of Beasley is patently insane to me.

[DingleJerry]

We never really talk about if Pop **** up by *not* starting Manu and playing him more. I mean, clearly the issue wasn't that he couldn't be effective in more minutes. I can't really remember -- did Manu *want* to play less, particularly in the RS?

I don't think it was about playing less. It was about staggering him with Parker so one of them was always out there and fresh to be the lead or primary creator type guy. He still averaged 30ish mins a game before he got old. Parker was usually 30-33ish mins.

[DingleJerry]

I feel like I'm going crazy with this "bench Khris" stuff.

Like the Dame/Giannis pairing actually has a slightly negative net rating with Khris off the floor (-0.58 in 341 minutes) but is wiping teams off the court when Khris is in there with them (+18.05 in 264 minutes). They have an above 129 ORTG with the trio on court lol. It's borderline game breaking when they're in there together and playing well.

It could not be more obvious that despite his lack of quickness/ball-handling sloppiness that can get him into trouble at times (and looks bad on a lowlights reel), Khris is still a force multiplier and is one of the key factors in making this team completely unguardable.

Dre should start IMO, but the idea that he should replace Khris instead of Beasley is patently insane to me.

I can see it if the new D focused starter is a bigger guy, who knows who that trade could be but lets just say its Crowder since he's on the team. Then I can see the logic and wanting to stagger guys, along with it would probably be a tweak to what mins Dame plays. But yea 100% with you if the D focused new starter is smaller/quicker and able to guard PG/SG types, like Dre seems to be able to do, Then Beas is the obvious one to go to bench and be the microwave type guy off the bench role

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Here's your reminder that DDV was playing 20 minutes a night from night 1 as a rookie on a team that won 60 games, supplanting a veteran Tony Snell. These Bud fallacies should just stop. We're like three games removed from an AJJ DNP-CD against the Bulls.

Bud didn't play young players, because our young players were ass, but that's consistently glossed over for whatever reason.

nwora got PLENTY of burn too for a player who was ass. marjon last year stunk and started 11 games. aj green averaged more minutes last year under bud than he does this year with griff.

anyway good post. the bud haters love to tell a good story thats for sure

As a rookie through 26 games Green played about 45 minutes last year under Bud. This season he's already over 100 minutes through the same number of games. How did he avg more minutes last year?

on the season last year he averaged 9.9 minutes. this year hes down almost 20% to just 8.1 minutes. his lack of time this season as a sophomore makes it even more demoralizing considering how much bud apparently ramped him up later last year in his rookie season.

and considering how well he played given that oppurtunity by bud last year it def raises the question about wtf griff is doing with him this year. he isnt a rookie anymore.

so also thanks for posting those numbers to make my point stronger

[Ron Swanson]

The Khris agenda/slander is just gonna be there forever. It is what it is. Whether it's people that refuse to believe a guy as visibly unathletic/slow as him could possibly be an elite NBA player (kind of a Jokic effect), or the people that have spent years convincing themselves that he's somehow a terrible ball-handler/decision-maker for a wing (he isn't), he's the ultimate eye-test-contradiction guy that a lot of Bucks fans are never gonna properly appreciate and that's a shame. 2nd best Buck since Ray Allen, yet he'll mostly be remembered on this board with meme posts about dribbling a basketball off his foot.

[Bucksmaniac]

The Khris agenda/slander is just gonna be there forever. It is what it is. Whether it's people that refuse to believe a guy as visibly unathletic/slow as him could possibly be an elite NBA player (kind of a Jokic effect), or the people that have spent years convincing themselves that he's somehow a terrible ball-handler/decision-maker for a wing (he isn't), he's the ultimate eye-test-contradiction guy that a lot of Bucks fans are never gonna properly appreciate and that's a shame. 2nd best Buck since Ray Allen, yet he'll mostly be remembered on this board with meme posts about dribbling a basketball off his foot.

Lol ‘elite’, that’s why there are a lot of people termed ‘Khris haters’. We’re seeing a lot of Khris stans overhype with flowery language or consider him untouchable when we must use different criteria to evaluate a player’s worth and their trade use. Khris had an elite skill at one point but right now for a third option there is no elite aspect to his game and his defense is at times the opposite of elite.

[emunney]

We never really talk about if Pop **** up by *not* starting Manu and playing him more. I mean, clearly the issue wasn't that he couldn't be effective in more minutes. I can't really remember -- did Manu *want* to play less, particularly in the RS?

I don't think it was about playing less. It was about staggering him with Parker so one of them was always out there and fresh to be the lead or primary creator type guy. He still averaged 30ish mins a game before he got old. Parker was usually 30-33ish mins.

I don't understand that explanation. I understand wanting one of them on the court, but that doesn't mean you can't have them both on the court: you could stagger them and still play them both 33 minutes. He didn't play more than Bowen until Bowen was 36. His minutes were always limited in ways the other guys' weren't.

[Ron Swanson]

The Khris agenda/slander is just gonna be there forever. It is what it is. Whether it's people that refuse to believe a guy as visibly unathletic/slow as him could possibly be an elite NBA player (kind of a Jokic effect), or the people that have spent years convincing themselves that he's somehow a terrible ball-handler/decision-maker for a wing (he isn't), he's the ultimate eye-test-contradiction guy that a lot of Bucks fans are never gonna properly appreciate and that's a shame. 2nd best Buck since Ray Allen, yet he'll mostly be remembered on this board with meme posts about dribbling a basketball off his foot.

Lol ‘elite’,