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Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:08 pm
by GHOSTofSIKMA
Wooderson wrote:GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:VooDoo7 wrote:Sadly, Giannis will go down as yet another Wisconsin sports great who should've won more than 1 title.
disagree with this post. i think its marvelous he got his one tho
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:and only one way out and ive stated that since day one too. youll see.....well wait to long to trade these mfers too and just compound this mess for a decade. you want hope you trade them ALL for the best value you can get starting with whoever has the most. clear the cap and load up with a great haul. if doc wants to coach em fine. if not who cares but the deal is dame and giannis go FIRST... not last.... FIRST.
It's a good thing
you weren't in charge in 2021 or this generation of the Bucks would have zero rings!
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:im first in line to say trade him [Giannis]. dont wait like the pistons did with drummond trying to figure out how to win with a stat line and nothing more.
we were massively lucky. that move would have been wrong historically but not intellectually. im glad things worked out the way they did against better logic and would have been happy to keep swinging if wed kept bud. he was the magic
but now im much happier about what i wrote then. there was a pile of truth to what i stated about what we witnessed the year we won. what transipired before bud and whats transpired since proves it beyond a shadow of doubt to me
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:10 pm
by Dick Tate
If Bud was still coaching, fans would be freaking about Giannis not signing his extension. Pointless exercise.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:14 pm
by GHOSTofSIKMA
Dick Tate wrote:If Bud was still coaching, fans would be freaking that Giannis didn't sign his extension. Pointless exercise.
knowing now giannis will be calling all his own shots makes signing him to extension and maybe even trading for dame or roster improvemrnt in general a pointless exercise.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:16 pm
by Dick Tate
paulpressey25 wrote:Are there still people who don’t think Bud was a top five coach?
Based on the roster differences from 2019 that you documented a couple of days ago?
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:21 pm
by worthlessBucks
lol
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:28 pm
by emunney
The team had a catastrophic failure in leadership last year. There were good reasons to move on from Bud regardless of whether Giannis wanted it or not. He was an excellent coach and he absolutely **** it last year. There was an internal credibility issue. You can't coach if your players don't trust you.
The circumstances that precipitated the firing were extremely unfortunate. Certainly the flop against the Heat was not all on Bud. But Bud did a bad job and made unacceptable mistakes. His teams have looked chronically underprepared going into playoff series. We all know this. That said, I think it was a close call. He might still be coaching here if he calls a timeout at the end of regulation in game 5.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:31 pm
by Ron Swanson
Funny thing about that 2019 team that everyone likes to say was the best starting-5 we had in recent memory.....they were only a +5.7 net-rating with the 4th most used 5-man lineup. They had a better net-rating with Giannis off the court (+3.3) than we currently do this whole season (+3.2). Bud was a wizard patching together bench lineups and maximizing role players. That, my friends, is what great coaching can actually do for your team...
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 4:34 pm
by Ruben Quevedo
paulpressey25 wrote:GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:bud was the one thing holding all these clowns together. how you needed this season to figure that out i have no words for you
It was clear that Giannis and others in the organization wanted a fresh voice. So Bud got canned. It's all part of human nature, and happens all the time in sports. Heck, if Mike Holmgren could have just gotten along with Ron Wolf, I'm convinced the Packers would have gotten another SB title.
But yes, I've been with you all along on this. Bud was either our Pop or our Jerry Sloan. And when you fire a top 5 coach, the chances you will get someone better are slim to none. The Bucks talent base wasn't like taking over the prime Steph/Klay/Draymond Warriors.
There are a couple strengths that Bud had, that people are now starting to appreciate.
1. He knew the strengths and weaknesses of his players inside and out. And ran a system that got the most out of each guy. We complain about Bud being too rigid. It was a weakness, but was also a strength.
2. Horst. Think Horst is a very good GM. That said, think most don't realize how much influence Bud had in personnel moves. Bud was a big part of buying low on FA's that he felt would fit his system. Whether it was Pat, Brook or bringing in Jrue among others. Horst has a much tougher job right now, both in which vets to bring in, and recruiting them.
Last May, everyone in that organization (and the fanbase) just needed to take a chill pill, and acknowledge that the team wasn't that talented, and their playoff losses the prior two years had a lot more to do with Middleton and Giannis being injured than Bud's coaching.
Nah, I'm not buying it. Our success under Bud was mainly about shutting down the paint on defense, and winning in transition on offense (or with Giannis playing 1 on 5). The halfcourt offense never developed into anything remotely sophisticated and was far too easy to defend. The defensive strategy works great until you get buried under an avalanche of 3 pointers. Six years ago only a couple of teams could do that. Now everyone does it.
In Bud's defense, we definitely had personnel problems. But the personnel was chosen for *his* system, as you mention.
I don't like our chances this year, but I wouldn't feel any better if Bud were in charge. Doc's refusal to take accountability for anything is annoying, and eventually the players are probably going to turn on him, but I trust his willingness to make adjustments over Bud in a playoff setting. I don't think we're going to lose because we'll get out-schemed.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:03 pm
by LUKE23
Anyone who wants to trade Giannis in hope that we will somehow get better as a result needs to be put on ignore immediately. There is no scenario where that happens. The chances any of us see a better Buck than GA in our lifetime is under 1%.
Again, the issue wasn't necessarily firing Bud. I could have gone either way on the situation, I was for his firing but I wouldn't have made a huge stink if he was back. Where the organization failed is how they replaced him. I understand that we have to cater to Giannis, but it still falls on Horst for being too easily swayed to hire Griffin.
I just don't buy that this roster is worse than last year. The net rating difference is -.4 and record is similar, and they have had a worse coach than Bud the entire year.
But yes, the issue is coaching more than personnel, IMO. Who we all want to blame for that is up for debate. I understand we are old and slow, we were old and slow last year. We swapped Jrue and Lillard who are the same age.
I'm still 100% behind the Dame trade though. Given how teams defend Giannis in the playoffs, there was zero chance they were winning another title with Jrue getting high offensive usage in the playoffs. A good defensive mind (Nurse) paired with Stotts would have been perfect. Instead we got only Grief, Stotts quit because he was such an idiot, and then we had to turn to Rivers when everything went south. And now, well, it just is what it is.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:13 pm
by ackypoo
should have hired kenny atkins. and the only way to fix that, is to hire kenny atkins this offseason.
it wont happen. we will stick with doc and watch this team continue to age into obscurity.
its been fun.
im going to watch the brewers.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:15 pm
by fan230
Too many factors have caused this mess.
One is that teams are repeatedly using floaters to score——- like yesterday. Brook or noone in the Bucks can defend that.The only way is to stop penetration of offensive players. But our point of attack defenders, our starters, Dame and Beas, have consistently failed to this penetration. So, I do not see a solution for this.
I think we shot 3 of 16 three pointers in the crucial 4th quarter. We shot poorly in the previous game also. We cannot use our offense to overcome defensive weaknesses if that is our shooting.
So really it is both our defense and offense that are not good.
Also my feeling is that Beas has been trying very hard to be a decent defender when intrinsically he is not, and that is affecting his rhythm in offense which has led to inconsistency in his offense.
We badly needed a Dejounte Murray but couldn’t get him.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:21 pm
by fansinceforever
Really wish I could get to a place where I really believed that none of what I'm watching actually matters unless they're playing someone good AND play well.
It's an interesting take, thats for sure.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:21 pm
by LUKE23
ackypoo wrote:should have hired kenny atkins. and the only way to fix that, is to hire kenny atkins this offseason.
it wont happen. we will stick with doc and watch this team continue to age into obscurity.
its been fun.
im going to watch the brewers.
Seems like a bold strategy Cotton.
https://scottieathletics.com/sports/football/roster/kenny-atkins/1871
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:50 pm
by German Athens
My favorite posts are something to the effect of:
“I’m done with this team”
Just to be repeated again after the next loss.
I just wanna know who you’re lying to.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 5:56 pm
by M-C-G
Slow, disinterested, pathetic? Are talking about the game or that good for nothing Ballys app?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 6:28 pm
by theFireBlanket
Dick Tate wrote:If Bud was still coaching, fans would be freaking about Giannis not signing his extension. Pointless exercise.
Pretty sure Giannis extended after the Dame trade, not Bud geting fired.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 7:14 pm
by ackypoo
German Athens wrote:My favorite posts are something to the effect of:
“I’m done with this team”
Just to be repeated again after the next loss.
I just wanna know who you’re lying to.
i want to be very clear, that while i said "i am going to watch the brewers" i meant in no way will i stop watching the bucks.
i will watch the bucks as i did during all those herb kohl years, with passivity and an understanding that a championship isnt an option on the table. you could argue the same for the brewers, but the difference is the brewers are on the up and up (i believe), and the bucks are clearly on the decline. one is way more exciting than the other.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 7:25 pm
by BigO
When Bud was the coach, a certain poster stated over and over that they would never blame a coach and now begs for Bud's return because coaching is the problem. The problem is the poster, not the coach.
Just to be clear, the Bucks don't have a coaching problem. They did to begin the season and almost had a mutiny.
The Bucks team that lost yesterday is not the one that will be on the court for the playoffs. The bench, except for one or two players, is horrible, The starting lineup is very good, except for one player.
Last night, the starting guards were 5-22. That's not a coaching problem.
The starting guards last night have to be one of the worst tandems in the league this year in terms of quickness. They couldn't penetrate and they couldn't stop penetration. That is not a coaching problem.
Please raise the level of discussion.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 7:30 pm
by ackypoo
BigO wrote:When Bud was the coach, a certain poster stated over and over that they would never blame a coach and now begs for Bud's return because coaching is the problem. The problem is the poster, not the coach.
Just to be clear, the Bucks don't have a coaching problem. They did to begin the season and almost had a mutiny.
The Bucks team that lost yesterday is not the one that will be on the court for the playoffs. The bench, except for one or two players, is horrible, The starting lineup is very good, except for one player.
Last night, the starting guards were 5-22. That's not a coaching problem.
The starting guards last night have to be one of the worst tandems in the league this year in terms of quickness. They couldn't penetrate and they couldn't stop penetration. That is not a coaching problem.
Please raise the level of discussion.
so its your belief that memphis is more talented than the bucks minus dame and khris?
2 problems can exist at the same time.
Re: PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic
Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 7:33 pm
by ShootingtheJ
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:ShootingtheJ wrote:GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:id also like to point out another thing. players are like bows and arrows. there are very few bows and lots of wonderful arrows.
steph is a bow. lebron is a bow. joker is a bow....... going back thru history most every alltime great repeat champions were bows.
giannis is an arrow. he needs a bow.
Massively untrue. He literally scored 50 in the deciding Finals game as a bow.
you just repeated the most common misunderstanding of the board.....and there are definitely outliers thats why i said repeat champions.
but giannis is in fact an arrow. not a bow.
undeniably giannis doesnt make teams good all on his own and he doesnt make players around him better. bud did that in his time here to the best degree that he could but the one season aside we have been a playoff disappointment, never really all tht close, and a huge disappointment against our regular season success. and now that giannis is calling the shots he needs a player who can lead him because coaches wont be able to do that anymore. he is his own coach now and the results reflect that
its hard even to hold dame accountable with what i see. stotts walked away from the mess he saw and that will never be lost on me as it relates to dame. dame was forced here to play for giannis coach and there was cancer here when he arrived. its complicated by things we may never even fully understand.
so make no mistake as pp25 said giannis is a shaq. an undeniable instrument of war.... but a mess if hes calling the shots and taking on the leadership role of a championship contender
You, nor I, know anything definitive, because we haven't seen the Bucks in the playoffs post- Bud. I can't even begin to imagine another coach coaching a series as poorly as Bud did last year, and I was previously a Bud apologist.
Any suggestion that Giannis is uncoachable is unfounded and factless.