PG: Bucks Ground Rockets

[Bmaasse]

nwora got PLENTY of burn too for a player who was ass. marjon last year stunk and started 11 games. aj green averaged more minutes last year under bud than he does this year with griff.

anyway good post. the bud haters love to tell a good story thats for sure

As a rookie through 26 games Green played about 45 minutes last year under Bud. This season he's already over 100 minutes through the same number of games. How did he avg more minutes last year?

on the season last year he averaged 9.9 minutes. this year hes down almost 20% to just 8.1 minutes. his lack of time this season as a sophomore makes it even more demoralizing considering how much bud apparently ramped him up later last year in his rookie season.

and considering how well he played given that oppurtunity by bud last year it def raises the question about wtf griff is doing with him this year. he isnt a rookie anymore.

so also thanks for posting those numbers to make my point stronger

Are you using 82 games to get that avg? If so, wouldn't that point to him getting many more by the end of this season if the trend continues? I'm just trying to understand.

[DingleJerry]

We never really talk about if Pop **** up by *not* starting Manu and playing him more. I mean, clearly the issue wasn't that he couldn't be effective in more minutes. I can't really remember -- did Manu *want* to play less, particularly in the RS?

I don't think it was about playing less. It was about staggering him with Parker so one of them was always out there and fresh to be the lead or primary creator type guy. He still averaged 30ish mins a game before he got old. Parker was usually 30-33ish mins.

I don't understand that explanation. I understand wanting one of them on the court, but that doesn't mean you can't have them both on the court: you could stagger them and still play them both 33 minutes. He didn't play more than Bowen until Bowen was 36. His minutes were always limited in ways the other guys' weren't.

IDK, seems pretty basic to me. I looked it up, he still got 30 mins a game and remember Pop didn't push mins. Parker was basically the same or 1-3 more. Yes of course it still could/would've worked with him starting (and at times he did) but they viewed it as smarter to stagger them. This way when parker goes out late 1 and 3 Q there is someone fresh out there to run everything. Who knows, but the results seem to speak for themselves.

[MiltownMadness]

How can the term Khris stan even exist on here? Yes, I am a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks.

[German Athens]

Players can still be staggered if they start together.

We see this on the bucks right now -
Dame plays the opening quarter, Giannis comes out midway through.

The thing you can do by starting is ensure you’re maximizing their minutes. I don’t get the bench Midds thing at all.

[emunney]

I don't think it was about playing less. It was about staggering him with Parker so one of them was always out there and fresh to be the lead or primary creator type guy. He still averaged 30ish mins a game before he got old. Parker was usually 30-33ish mins.

I don't understand that explanation. I understand wanting one of them on the court, but that doesn't mean you can't have them both on the court: you could stagger them and still play them both 33 minutes. He didn't play more than Bowen until Bowen was 36. His minutes were always limited in ways the other guys' weren't.

IDK, seems pretty basic to me. I looked it up, he still got 30 mins a game and remember Pop didn't push mins. Parker was basically the same or 1-3 more. Yes of course it still could/would've worked with him starting (and at times he did) but they viewed it as smarter to stagger them. This way when parker goes out late 1 and 3 Q there is someone fresh out there to run everything. Who knows, but the results seem to speak for themselves.

Any other hall of fame players come to mind who played less than 30mpg in their prime? Topped 30mpg in two seasons. Bowen played more. Third on the Spurs in MPG one time; 4th or lower every other season. Pop staggering them addresses none of this.

[paulpressey25]

The Khris agenda/slander is just gonna be there forever. It is what it is. Whether it's people that refuse to believe a guy as visibly unathletic/slow as him could possibly be an elite NBA player (kind of a Jokic effect), or the people that have spent years convincing themselves that he's somehow a terrible ball-handler/decision-maker for a wing (he isn't), he's the ultimate eye-test-contradiction guy that a lot of Bucks fans are never gonna properly appreciate and that's a shame. 2nd best Buck since Ray Allen, yet he'll mostly be remembered on this board with meme posts about dribbling a basketball off his foot.

I think he’s awesome. I just believe he’s got a degenerative knee issue that will always be problematic.

[DingleJerry]

I don't understand that explanation. I understand wanting one of them on the court, but that doesn't mean you can't have them both on the court: you could stagger them and still play them both 33 minutes. He didn't play more than Bowen until Bowen was 36. His minutes were always limited in ways the other guys' weren't.

IDK, seems pretty basic to me. I looked it up, he still got 30 mins a game and remember Pop didn't push mins. Parker was basically the same or 1-3 more. Yes of course it still could/would've worked with him starting (and at times he did) but they viewed it as smarter to stagger them. This way when parker goes out late 1 and 3 Q there is someone fresh out there to run everything. Who knows, but the results seem to speak for themselves.

Any other hall of fame players come to mind who played less than 30mpg in their prime? Topped 30mpg in two seasons. Bowen played more. Third on the Spurs in MPG one time; 4th or lower every other season. Pop staggering them addresses none of this.

The other HOF guard on his team did basically the same. Pop was the starter of the lower mins curve, maybe this is how he thought he could get the most value out of those two guys without having to play them 36 mins and burn them out before the playoffs. And a strategy thing that two guys who thrive with the ball in their hands aren't best utilized watching the other do it, so wanted to reduce how much that happened to get the most 'value per min played' type of thing.

Like I said, who knows if he was right but you can't really argue with the results. Along with both guys being able to play until an older age than most

ETA: Spitballing a bit, another spot that might've made sense for this is Wade/LBJ due to such a drastic overlap in skillsets. Have Wade come in 4-5 mins into the game so he could stay out there when LBJ sat near end of q1. In that scenario though I'd guess their depth was so bad that they had no options unlike the Spurs. I don't recall what they did, maybe one of them came out super quickly so they could come back on when the other went out later in the 1st.

Also, remember the Bucks for a stretch when Jabarii was actually healthy they tried to address this problem. If I remmber for like half a season they'd take Giannis out really quickly, like 4 mins in. That way when Jabari/KM had to come out late Q1 Giannis was ready to come back in and carry everything. It was very clunky having to pull a guy so quickly, the smoother route is to just have one not start. In that case, it should've been Jabari.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

As a rookie through 26 games Green played about 45 minutes last year under Bud. This season he's already over 100 minutes through the same number of games. How did he avg more minutes last year?

on the season last year he averaged 9.9 minutes. this year hes down almost 20% to just 8.1 minutes. his lack of time this season as a sophomore makes it even more demoralizing considering how much bud apparently ramped him up later last year in his rookie season.

and considering how well he played given that oppurtunity by bud last year it def raises the question about wtf griff is doing with him this year. he isnt a rookie anymore.

so also thanks for posting those numbers to make my point stronger

Are you using 82 games to get that avg? If so, wouldn't that point to him getting many more by the end of this season if the trend continues? I'm just trying to understand.

he was a rookie last year whose numbers FOR THE YEAR..... are down from last year..... FOR THE YEAR.

one would think if "griff plays the young guys more than bud".... that griff would have picked up where bud left off considering how well he shot it for us

my point is the silliness of saying bud didnt play young guys. its just bud haterism and the only point im trying to make. griffs doing all right on that point and previously... so did bud. some of my original [post was sarcasm directed at certain guys in general not specifically you

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The Khris agenda/slander is just gonna be there forever. It is what it is. Whether it's people that refuse to believe a guy as visibly unathletic/slow as him could possibly be an elite NBA player (kind of a Jokic effect), or the people that have spent years convincing themselves that he's somehow a terrible ball-handler/decision-maker for a wing (he isn't), he's the ultimate eye-test-contradiction guy that a lot of Bucks fans are never gonna properly appreciate and that's a shame. 2nd best Buck since Ray Allen, yet he'll mostly be remembered on this board with meme posts about dribbling a basketball off his foot.

Lol ‘elite’, that’s why there are a lot of people termed ‘Khris haters’. We’re seeing a lot of Khris stans overhype with flowery language or consider him untouchable when we must use different criteria to evaluate a player’s worth and their trade use. Khris had an elite skill at one point but right now for a third option there is no elite aspect to his game and his defense is at times the opposite of elite.

the idea wed trade khris is comical at this point so evaluating "his worth" or "trade use" is what the lol should be all about

only thing as it relates to khris is how long he remains a treasure to us due to his health and what hes going to ask for financially year to year until he retires.... retires as a buck.

i guess you could also debate where he stands on the alltime bucks list and whether he trumps ray at 4 or sits unrivaled at 5. personally i give him slot 4 due to years and the title but thats just me. i could be convinced if somebody else wanted ray at 4

giannis
alcindor
moncrief
khris
ray

[MiltownMadness]

"Greatest" Bucks of all time

Giannis
Kareem
Khris
Oscar
Moncrief
Ray
MJ (Plus points for rekindling the relationship with Bucks later on)

Not arguing who is best, just the legacy they have left behind as Bucks

[HaroldinGMinor]

If you yell "that guy sucks!" long enough eventually you'll be right. That's no reason to spike an imaginary football when it happens.

[Bucksmaniac]

How can the term Khris stan even exist on here? Yes, I am a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks.

It is referencing someone who thinks he can do no wrong and has never entertained the idea of a trade because they’re emotionally invested, probably due to the fact that he’s spent practically his entire career here.

[MiltownMadness]

How can the term Khris stan even exist on here? Yes, I am a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks.

It is referencing someone who thinks he can do no wrong and has never entertained the idea of a trade because they’re emotionally invested, probably due to the fact that he’s spent practically his entire career here.

Trading Khris doesn't make sense from a basketball standpoint, that's the entire thing. We are slaughtering teams when Khris plays. The fact he should be adored and wanted by this fanbase is the cherry on top

[jschligs]

Our next 10 aren't that difficult. We've actually had a pretty light schedule so far. Orlando is tough, Knicks can be tough, and then of course Indy. But I want to see how we do during out late Jan/Feb stretch that includes Denver x2, Dallas, Phoenix, Minnesota x2 and Philly. Need to load up on the dubs now because they will be a lot harder to come by during that time.

[Bucksmaniac]

How can the term Khris stan even exist on here? Yes, I am a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks.

It is referencing someone who thinks he can do no wrong and has never entertained the idea of a trade because they’re emotionally invested, probably due to the fact that he’s spent practically his entire career here.

Trading Khris doesn't make sense from a basketball standpoint, that's the entire thing. We are slaughtering teams when Khris plays. The fact he should be adored and wanted by this fanbase is the cherry on top

This goes back to past years, if you’ve been a fan of the Bucks since he was traded to the Bucks and have always wanted to keep him no matter his inconsistencies and large contracts, I’d definitely consider that a fair definition of Khris stan or apologist. ShootingtheJ was so sure this summer he’d be a steal at a 30 million a year contract, that’s the kind of mentality that garners the moniker above.

[Shaffty]

on the season last year he averaged 9.9 minutes. this year hes down almost 20% to just 8.1 minutes. his lack of time this season as a sophomore makes it even more demoralizing considering how much bud apparently ramped him up later last year in his rookie season.

and considering how well he played given that oppurtunity by bud last year it def raises the question about wtf griff is doing with him this year. he isnt a rookie anymore.

so also thanks for posting those numbers to make my point stronger

Are you using 82 games to get that avg? If so, wouldn't that point to him getting many more by the end of this season if the trend continues? I'm just trying to understand.

he was a rookie last year whose numbers FOR THE YEAR..... are down from last year..... FOR THE YEAR.

one would think if "griff plays the young guys more than bud".... that griff would have picked up where bud left off considering how well he shot it for us

my point is the silliness of saying bud didnt play young guys. its just bud haterism and the only point im trying to make. griffs doing all right on that point and previously... so did bud. some of my original [post was sarcasm directed at certain guys in general not specifically you

last year AJ Played 35 out of 82 games

This year he has played 18 out of 26 games.

AJ has higher 'MPG' then this year because he only played in the full rest games. Griff plays the young guys in more actual game situations.

[MickeyDavis]

Love Khris but let's not pretend that his handle isn't hilarious. It doesn't always end up in a turnover (although his TO per 36 are trending up the last 3 years). Sometimes he just dribbles into traffic, fumbles around with the ball and eventually regains it, but now there's under 10 seconds on the shot clock. I cringe every time he takes more than 2 dribbles.

But yeah he's an all-time Bucks great, when Giannis went down in the ECF vs. the Hawks, Khris took over. With GIannis inside and Dame behind the arc, Khris' midrange game will be a key to a title run. Number 22 will be in the rafters one day.

[MiltownMadness]

This goes back to past years, if you’ve been a fan of the Bucks since he was traded to the Bucks and have always wanted to keep him no matter his inconsistencies and large contracts, I’d definitely consider that a fair definition of Khris stan or apologist. ShootingtheJ was so sure this summer he’d be a steal at a 30 million a year contract, that’s the kind of mentality that garners the moniker above.

I'd say those are just smart fans, Khris is a player you want on your team. Keeping Khris resulted in a championship so Khris stans in your example ended up being the smart ones.

I'm saying we should all be Khris 'stans'

[Bucksmaniac]

Love Khris but let's not pretend that his handle isn't hilarious. It doesn't always end up in a turnover (although his TO per 36 are trending up the last 3 years). Sometimes he just dribbles into traffic, fumbles around with the ball and eventually regains it, but now there's under 10 seconds on the shot clock. I cringe every time he takes more than 2 dribbles.

But yeah he's an all-time Bucks great, when Giannis went down in the ECF vs. the Hawks, Khris took over. With GIannis inside and Dame behind the arc, Khris' midrange game will be a key to a title run. Number 22 will be in the rafters one day.

This is just it, Game 5 against the Hawks, Brook was our best player. He played as big a part in wrapping that series up in 6 as Khris did. Posters like ShootingtheJ probably only remember Khris, selective memory with Brook stepping up (and Bobby too for that matter).

[Bucksmaniac]

This goes back to past years, if you’ve been a fan of the Bucks since he was traded to the Bucks and have always wanted to keep him no matter his inconsistencies and large contracts, I’d definitely consider that a fair definition of Khris stan or apologist. ShootingtheJ was so sure this summer he’d be a steal at a 30 million a year contract, that’s the kind of mentality that garners the moniker above.

I'd say those are just smart fans, Khris is a player you want on your team. Keeping Khris resulted in a championship so Khris stans in your example ended up being the smart ones.

I'm saying we should all be Khris 'stans'

I still contend his contributions are more replaceable than a player like Brook’s, which is where he gets a bit overrated by the board. It wouldn’t surprise me if you put a Redd or Salmons in his place, they could do 90% of what he does. Since he plays next to an all time great though, his positives get magnified and we live with his weaknesses.