Is Kohl's Plan To Pay $70M+ Next Season?

paul · Post #141 » by **paul** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 4:55 am

Thanks for the clarification Ayt.

Ayt · Post #142 » by **Ayt** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 5:03 am

paul wrote:Thanks for the clarification Ayt.

No problem.

Its understandable why few teams want to go over unless they really think its going to put them over the top or they simply don't seem to care about losing money.

midranger · Post #143 » by **midranger** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 5:12 am

Besides the obvious economic incentives of staying under the tax threshold, it gives Kohl a tangible and reasonable target to set his budget every year. It becomes a slippery slope if you start going over by a million or two, then by 5 or 6 million, and so on. This way, Kohl doesn't have to be the bad guy, his GMs know the limit every year and are forced to adjust to it accordingly. I don't think anyone can or would fault him for staying under it, as the tax seems to be a commonly held spending limit on many franchises, including those in larger markets.

fightingfury · Post #144 » by **fightingfury** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 6:21 am

Great discussion everyone, I've only closely followed the NBA for roughly a season now so am still learning all the little things about the game, especially off court stuff. I appreciate the discussion. Interesting thing this luxury tax.
Just one question, and this is probably a stupid question for all you who know a lot more about how the NBA runs than me, but who is this Kohl fella? I have noticed that he seems to have a lot of power at the club. Is he the owner of the team or a manager kind of guy or something else altogether?

trwi7 · Post #145 » by **trwi7** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 6:24 am

Kohl is the second most successful leprachaun in the world (behind David Stern) and the only leprachaun to own an NBA franchise.

fightingfury · Post #146 » by **fightingfury** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 6:37 am

Haha ok thanks trwi, Kohl is a fairly successful leprechaun it seems then. :wink:

midranger · Post #147 » by **midranger** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 12:04 pm

aboveAverage wrote:
midranger wrote:Ignorant is not seeing Michael Redd's half court un-attempts for what they are. A selfish display that hurt his team every time he does it.
But whatever, now that he's lost his starting job to Ramon Sessions he's the worst contract in the NBA.

If by losing his starting job you mean getting injured, then yeah.

Hey, I'm just presenting facts here. We know that Redd was starting and now he's not. It's a fact that he lost his starting spot.

midranger · Post #148 » by **midranger** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 12:12 pm

As a matter of fact, Redd has played his way out of the rotation completely.

BDUB_30 · Post #149 » by **BDUB_30** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 12:22 pm

midranger wrote:I'm not sure about Redd's work ethic on the court but the fact that he was constantly playing at near 20% body fat and only hired a personal trainer for the summer two years ago, leads me to believe that this guy doesn't kill himself in the gym.

case closed .

its amazing to me that anyone with any knowledge about playing atheltes could see this any other way .

Anyone notice how much redd sweats during the course of a game ... yeah great work ethic there , the guy looks like a 40 year old at the Y .

Look , great work ethic players play both sides of the floor , and dont come down with injuries trying to dunk the ball .. you cant claim a guy has a great work ethic if hes got boobs bigger then your girlfriend ...

and im not trashing redd , i sincerly appreciate the effort he was given this team this year ...he was playing at a much incresed level defensivly and imo , he will be missed ...but get the fk outta here with the " hes got a great work ethic " ....be more articulate people .. he HAD a great work ethic , it went out the window when he signed his deal .... it appears as if THIS year he was trying to return to form , but weve had years of watching a very lazy , out of shape , fat , selfish , non defending micheal redd ....lets not kid ourselfs here .

pre contract redd
and
post contract redd are two diffrent beasts .

old skool · Post #150 » by **old skool** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 6:10 pm

It is easy to claim that Redd does not work on defense, passing or rebounding. I don't know how to prove or disprove that. It is easy to equate effort to body fat or levels of sweating during a game.

All of that notwithstanding, no one on the Bucks has improved their game as much as Redd has improved his. He has added an entire arsenal of offensive weapons. If every Buck player had improved their games as much as Redd improved his, the Bucks would be one of the elite teams in the NBA.

I saw how hard Redd worked during his rookie season. He was not good enough to get any playing time at all. He spent virtually the entire season on the injured (inactive) list. But he worked his butt off before EVERY game, working with assistant coaches to get better. He worked hard for hours.

I haven't seen Charlie Bell work like that. Or Bogut. Or Ilyasova. Or Lynn Greer. Or Sessions. Or Haislip. Or Alexander. Or Mbah a Moute.

Every NBA team took a pass on Michael Redd and he fell to the second round. He got better. And better. And better. And better. For several years now, he had been the Bucks best player. It is absurd to denigrate Redd's improvement by saying that he only worked on offense. Redd's hard work and improvement have been extraordinary - which is why he has improved so much more than any other Bucks player. If Redd's level of improvement is so easy, why can't any of the Bucks other players improve their games by that same amount?

What would you rather have? Would it be better if Bogut, Sessions, Ilyasova, Alexander, Bell and Mbah a Moute all showed clear improvement in their games for several consecutive seasons, became All-Stars, became the focus of every defense they faced and were considered to be elite free agents after their rookie deals? (In other words, made Redd-like progress). Or would it be better if Redd lowered his body fat % and would sweat less?

oLd sKool

smauss · Post #151 » by **smauss** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 6:59 pm

old skool wrote:It is easy to claim that Redd does not work on defense, passing or rebounding. I don't know how to prove or disprove that. It is easy to equate effort to body fat or levels of sweating during a game.

All of that notwithstanding, no one on the Bucks has improved their game as much as Redd has improved his. He has added an entire arsenal of offensive weapons. If every Buck player had improved their games as much as Redd improved his, the Bucks would be one of the elite teams in the NBA.

I saw how hard Redd worked during his rookie season. He was not good enough to get any playing time at all. He spent virtually the entire season on the injured (inactive) list. But he worked his butt off before EVERY game, working with assistant coaches to get better. He worked hard for hours.

I haven't seen Charlie Bell work like that. Or Bogut. Or Ilyasova. Or Lynn Greer. Or Sessions. Or Haislip. Or Alexander. Or Mbah a Moute.

Every NBA team took a pass on Michael Redd and he fell to the second round. He got better. And better. And better. And better. For several years now, he had been the Bucks best player. It is absurd to denigrate Redd's improvement by saying that he only worked on offense. Redd's hard work and improvement have been extraordinary - which is why he has improved so much more than any other Bucks player. If Redd's level of improvement is so easy, why can't any of the Bucks other players improve their games by that same amount?

What would you rather have? Would it be better if Bogut, Sessions, Ilyasova, Alexander, Bell and Mbah a Moute all showed clear improvement in their games for several consecutive seasons, became All-Stars, became the focus of every defense they faced and were considered to be elite free agents after their rookie deals? (In other words, made Redd-like progress). Or would it be better if Redd lowered his body fat % and would sweat less?

oLd sKool

Even though I hate the amount of money we have tied up and would love to get rid of that salary albatross I simply can't dis Redd on what he has accomplished in this league. OS I believe you are right on the money (pun definitely intended!

)

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #152 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:20 am

InsideOut wrote:I'd say no way Kohl does it. Why go over the cap to try and play .500 ball and get an 8th seed? Why go over the cap to keep guys that aren't going to be core pieces on a contender? At least that is what I'd be thinking if I had this team and attendance was down. Redd and Bogut have missed quite a bit of time this month and CV takes off. You see stuff like this all the time. Garcia and Martin are out at the start of the season and all off a sudden Salmons the next coming. Hammond has a tough job figuring out what a guy like CV is worth. I hope he doesn't pay for January CV and end up with November CV. Either way if I don't see CV being a Hammond/Skiles type of player.

InsideOut you hit it on the head here...

You are absolutely correct. Why do it? Both are fools' gold... Both are playing in their 'money gear' and we are not getting a good indication of who they are.

This is how we get fooled all the time...and end up overpaying for scrubs or mediocore players. It is a sign of an organization that has not procured talent, knows, talent, developed talent, or can really attract talent...as do some others.

We draft mistakes, or get second round steals and trade for players off of losing teams and then we wonder why we don't win...

Let them go...and start over!

midranger · Post #153 » by **midranger** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:45 am

I don't think I or anyone else has "dissed" what Redd has accomplished in the NBA. I certainly just said that this isn't a guy who kills himself in the gym to keep his body in tip-top physical shape. I don't think that can even be disputed.

But, just out of curiosity, what has Redd accomplished in the NBA that is so impressive to people?

trwi7 · Post #154 » by **trwi7** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:49 am

midranger wrote:But, just out of curiosity, what has Redd accomplished in the NBA that is so impressive to people?

We've been an 8th seed in the playoffs a few times.

midranger · Post #155 » by **midranger** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:54 am

trwi7 wrote:
midranger wrote:But, just out of curiosity, what has Redd accomplished in the NBA that is so impressive to people?

We've been an 8th seed in the playoffs a few times.

Umm....

trwi7 · Post #156 » by **trwi7** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:58 am

Sarcasm mid.

paul · Post #157 » by **paul** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:58 am

Redd's taken himself from being a second round pick to being perenially one of the top scorers in the game. He's not Kobe, has probably carried a little too much body fat and is overpaid but if that's not at least slightly impressive I don't know what is. The fact that he's been surrounded by crap for a large portion of his career isn't entirely his fault.

Somehow I think if he'd done that while playing for the Blazers or OKC you'd be more impressed....

midranger · Post #158 » by **midranger** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:00 am

I thought that the top scorers thing had been debunked by a few of us calling every "elite scorer" an "elite scorer."

Oh well, without further ado, let me introduce Charlie "elite scorer" Villanueva.

paul · Post #159 » by **paul** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:20 am

midranger wrote:I thought that the top scorers thing had been debunked by a few of us calling every "elite scorer" an "elite scorer."

Oh well, without further ado, let me introduce Charlie "elite scorer" Villanueva.

I get that your standard prose is sarcasm, but I didn't get that at all.

InsideOut · Post #160 » by **InsideOut** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:52 am

paul wrote:
midranger wrote:I thought that the top scorers thing had been debunked by a few of us calling every "elite scorer" an "elite scorer."

Oh well, without further ado, let me introduce Charlie "elite scorer" Villanueva.

I get that your standard prose is sarcasm, but I didn't get that at all.

What he might be saying is there are a ton of guys that can score if they are given the green light on a bad team (Salmons). Redd is just a guy that played on a bad team and shot a lot. CV is now Mr. Green Light on a below average team (yes, they are not good with Redd and Bogut out). Redd has done a great job working on making himself a scorer. However, all that hard work never helped him become a great passer, rebounder, defender, leader... He worked on his scoring and it got better...that is all. Maybe that is the reason so many see him as selfish.