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ReasonablySober wrote:I cringe when Bobby gets the ball on the block and we revert to basketball circa 1994, but I recognize it's vitally important to get him going.

This post is good to highlight what Portis did last night for us.

Portis was key to our offense.
Portis literally torched every PF Indy threw at him... He gets going ... Indy tries Isaiah Jackson on him, who was really good against us in RS, Portis scores 3 baskets in row extending the lead, and forcing Indy's coach to call a Time Out.
Then in the second half, he again scores consecutive baskets against Siakam.

Once we went away from that ... Siakam didn't have to work hard on their D and had the energy to torch us.

Unfortunately Khris cannot handle Siakam ... But this matchup goes both ways cause Khris when locked in is huge too.

There was a moment where Siakam guarded Brook at the post, Brook threw a lazy off balance long hook and missed .... I was like wtf Brook?

So in the long run Brook + Portis whenever guarded by Siakam they need to get physical at the post, score on him, put him on foul trouble and make him lose energy to become less efficient on offense.

Overall I am happy with the team.

Doc needs to adjust and draw plays to exploit the Dame full court double press.

Pat Bev was huge as many said. AJ Green though missed 3s, slowed down TJ, being physical. I am neither worried about AJ neither Beas. They did their part just enough to keep the lead and the W. Can the do more ? For sure... Everybody can improve. I am so happy Doc won the 1st Coach Matchup with a Giannisless team. We were more prepared and Dame's performance is the reason I post to keep him out of trade talks.

I really hope Doc prepares the team well for the 2nd match. The flop cards are on the table, we have to play smart and double down on our strengths.

-Jragon- wrote:I haven't watched Indy much this end half... are they kind of in our boat where they saw an opportunity to pair Hali with a "superstar" but they lost a lot of 3 and D depth to get him? And Siakim is a bit softer on D then anticipated?

They really only traded Bruce Brown, Nwora, and picks for him, so no, not really. I think the Pacers had some nerves early, made them lose the plot defensively, but have settled in and we should have a series now. But they're going to have to figure out ways make us pay for forcing the ball out of Haliburton's hands in the half court. Siakam's a really good player but if they're just going to go with it and let Siakam take Hali's touches, they're not going to win more than a game or two in this series, and that's if Giannis doesn't come back. If Giannis does come back, you can pretty much forget about Siakam, too.

KidA24 wrote:

Bmaasse wrote:I'll take a Bobby post up over a Brook 30 footer, any day of the week.

Bobby from 10-19 this season was 113/255 or 44%, or 0.88PPP.

Brook from 25-29 was 110/302, or 36.4% or 1.092PPP. Or, you know, 25% better than a Bobby Post up.

Brook only took 22 shots over 30 feet all season.

Even on those he shot 27.4%, which was .82 PPP, way closer to Bobby's post ups than Bobby is to Brook's normal 3 pointers.

I watch the games and other people look at charts.

Luckily the people looking at the charts aren't making decisions. Mechanical thinking is getting out of hand.

BigO wrote:Luckily the people looking at the charts aren't making decisions

Yeah they are.

Mostly just grateful for no Gallo.

Nice to see a vintage Middleton game - especially in the 2nd half with Lillard on the bench when they needed it the most.

As much as there is a time and place for a post up and its good to have a couple guys like Bobby/Brook can do it in order to have a diverse team for the opposition to worry about, the old school back down post up type thing is one of the worst possessions/shots in modern basketball.

Keep in mind those stats above are just for shots in that range, not necessarily 'post ups' in that range. IDK if that info is out there but logically the post up % should be less than that whereas some pick/pop or slip of the screen catch shoots in that area would be higher. Bobby's best thing in "iso" type ball is probably actually a face up than a post up due to shooting being his best strength so the D has to respect it.

Obligatory, F duncd on doodoocast. Those guys are the biggest bucks haters ive ever heard lol. Can here them seething coming up with Pacers excuses lol

Bobby iso on a mismatch is a fantastic playoff possession. Game slows down in the playoffs and you need to create halfcourt buckets that aren't hail mary 3's. He just sucks defensively so you can only play him a bunch in certain matchups or if Giannis is out.

DingleJerry wrote:As much as there is a time and place for a post up and its good to have a couple guys like Bobby/Brook can do it in order to have a diverse team for the opposition to worry about, the old school back down post up type thing is one of the worst possessions/shots in modern basketball.

Keep in mind those stats above are just for shots in that range, not necessarily 'post ups' in that range. IDK if that info is out there but logically the post up % should be less than that whereas some pick/pop or slip of the screen catch shoots in that area would be higher. Bobby's best thing in "iso" type ball is probably actually a face up than a post up due to shooting being his best strength so the D has to respect it.

Talking about post ups being good or bad in the abstract, without talking about who is doing the post up, is bizarre.

Post ups are bad if you don't have a good post up player and good if you have a good one.

I guarantee that if the Bucks idolized the stats being thrown around here, they wouldn't post up Bobby over and over.

And I guarantee that if the opposition idolized the same stats that others on here idolize, they wouldn't be doubling Bobby.

Stat idolatry replaces thinking and this discussion is a prime example of it.

BigO wrote:

KidA24 wrote:

Bmaasse wrote:I'll take a Bobby post up over a Brook 30 footer, any day of the week.

Bobby from 10-19 this season was 113/255 or 44%, or 0.88PPP.

Brook from 25-29 was 110/302, or 36.4% or 1.092PPP. Or, you know, 25% better than a Bobby Post up.

Brook only took 22 shots over 30 feet all season.

Even on those he shot 27.4%, which was .82 PPP, way closer to Bobby's post ups than Bobby is to Brook's normal 3 pointers.

I watch the games and other people look at charts.

Luckily the people looking at the charts aren't making decisions. Mechanical thinking is getting out of hand.

Funny how often your eye test is you making up things to fit your own personal narrative with no backing in reality.

BigO wrote:

DingleJerry wrote:As much as there is a time and place for a post up and its good to have a couple guys like Bobby/Brook can do it in order to have a diverse team for the opposition to worry about, the old school back down post up type thing is one of the worst possessions/shots in modern basketball.

Keep in mind those stats above are just for shots in that range, not necessarily 'post ups' in that range. IDK if that info is out there but logically the post up % should be less than that whereas some pick/pop or slip of the screen catch shoots in that area would be higher. Bobby's best thing in "iso" type ball is probably actually a face up than a post up due to shooting being his best strength so the D has to respect it.

Talking about post ups being good or bad in the abstract, without talking about who is doing the post up, is bizarre.

Post ups are bad if you don't have a good post up player and good if you have a good one.

I guarantee that if the Bucks idolized the stats being thrown around here, they wouldn't post up Bobby over and over.

And I guarantee that if the opposition idolized the same stats that others on here idolize, they wouldn't be doubling Bobby.

Stat idolatry replaces thinking and this discussion is a prime example of it.

Well I just said there's a time and a place and its good to have the skillset on the team.

But look, someone just posted the numbers even for a good one like Bobby and they are still not good numbers. And as I pointed out, those numbers are likely inflated due to the nature of the data.

A small benefit of a Bobby/Brook post possession is the other 4 guys importantly someone like Dame/Giannis get 20 seconds to do nothing but catch their breath and you still have a respectable chance at a bucket

Finding it a little weird the amount of people patting the Pacers on the back for that 2nd half. Nothing they did, outside of Siakam hitting every contested mid-ranger imaginable, would inspire much confidence if I was a Pacers fan. You can't just chalk this one up to 3PT variance when we were actively funneling those shots to the guys you want taking them (Turner, Siakam, and McConnell combined for 17 attempts). I mean, if this is the version of Haliburton they're gonna get, then this series will be over very quickly. Whether he's still "injured" or not, the backcourt defense had him in absolute jail last night, and his inability to really create for himself has been overlooked in all the early season hype.

gbmb34 wrote:Mostly just grateful for no Gallo.

Nice to see a vintage Middleton game - especially in the 2nd half with Lillard on the bench when they needed it the most.

When Middleton is semi injured or cold he’s such a frustrating guy to watch.

When Mids is hot and locked in, he’s as tough an iso cover as there is in the league.

they are doubling dame up top 40 feet from the basket when the screener comes and keeping him from turning the corner.... i wish hed sometimes try to split those screens. it would be a fastbreak to the basket if he could do it but he never does. its weird how some guys like harden are gurus at it but dame never even tries.

otherwise the way they played him in the second half is going to completely remove him from the series. as great as the first half was, once they made the adjustment he was completely negated. it shouldnt have been that easy but it was. thank god khris did khris things and beverly game managed well in that secondary role

regardless of the attention he gets he has to still make an impact tho. were not going to win this series if they keep running that defense out and dame becomes just a decoy

FrieAaron wrote:

BigO wrote:Luckily the people looking at the charts aren't making decisions

Yeah they are.

Thankfully.

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:they are doubling dame up top 40 feet from the basket when the screener comes and keeping him from turning the corner.... i wish hed sometimes try to split those screens. it would be a fastbreak to the basket if he could do it but he never does. its weird how some guys like harden are gurus at it but dame never even tries.

otherwise the way they played him in the second half is going to completely remove him from the series. as great as the first half was, once they made the adjustment he was completely negated. it shouldnt have been that easy but it was. thank god khris did khris things and beverly game managed well in that secondary role

regardless of the attention he gets he has to still make an impact tho. were not going to win this series if they keep running that defense out and dame becomes just a decoy

It should be easy for the rest to get plenty of points if the defend him like this. But we also said the same thing about Tor and other teams putting 3 guys in the paint on Giannis and how open all the other's shots would be that should be easy and of course that didn't work out in most cases. 2H yesterday reminder me of that

Ron Swanson wrote:Finding it a little weird the amount of people patting the Pacers on the back for that 2nd half. Nothing they did, outside of Siakam hitting every contested mid-ranger imaginable, would inspire much confidence if I was a Pacers fan. You can't just chalk this one up to 3PT variance when we were actively funneling those shots to the guys you want taking them (Turner, Siakam, and McConnell combined for 17 attempts). I mean, if this is the version of Haliburton they're gonna get, then this series will be over very quickly. Whether he's still "injured" or not, the backcourt defense had him in absolute jail last night, and his inability to really create for himself has been overlooked in all the early season hype.

youre right that our defense was locked in and we gave their offense troubles in both halves but where your wrong is how well their bottom feeding defense did against us in the second half. we scored 40 on them at home with a sold out crowd. they didnt quit and they reeled us in. we bopped them back and can thank khris for that but there was a moment there coming out of 3rd quarter where if khris hadnt popped off that game could have been a mfin heartbreaker

its imperative we dont allow indiana to solve what dame can bring. in the 2nd half they did. i will certainly give them that

We will lose next game if Giannis doesnt play.

There I said it.

Sigra wrote:We will lose next game if Giannis doesnt play.

There I said it.

He's not playing. But we'll win regardless.

Sigra wrote:We will lose next game if Giannis doesnt play.

There I said it.

they were slight favorites in the last game for a reason. i dont feel any better or worse about game two than i did game one tho. i think they come out hungry but i also think that game gave us confidence too.

what i dont like is weve always played better as the underdog. last nights game may have given us a bit of false momentum but if giannis still doesnt play i cant imagine how our guys would approach this game with any sense of cruise type confidence knowing hes still out