Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:23 pm
by LittleRooster
Someone more knowledgeable then me, why are these two guys very good adds for us?
Not questioning, just genuinely curious. I see people saying Joeger is good X’s and O’s guy
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Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:50 pm
by MickeyDavis
As has been said we are going from the easiest schedule in the league to the hardest. I don't necessarily think we'll continue winning at a .705 clip. But we should be a better team than we are now come April.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:02 pm
by sidney lanier
MickeyDavis wrote:As has been said we are going from the easiest schedule in the league to the hardest. I don't necessarily think we'll continue winning at a .705 clip. But we should be a better team than we are now come April.
Not that big a believer in this metric, since teams get better or worse and hotter and colder throughout the season, and a cream puff in October might be as tough as a $2 steak in March, and vice versa. And there isn't that big a variation top to bottom, although it is a little disconcerting that Boston is way at the easy bottom.
Notice that the six teams with the "easiest" remaining schedule all play the Pistons at least twice, which of course skews the number, and the Detroits are no longer a gimme.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:16 pm
by chonestown
sidney lanier wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:As has been said we are going from the easiest schedule in the league to the hardest. I don't necessarily think we'll continue winning at a .705 clip. But we should be a better team than we are now come April.
Not that big a believer in this metric, since teams get better or worse and hotter and colder throughout the season, and a cream puff in October might be as tough as a $2 steak in March, and vice versa. And there isn't that big a variation top to bottom, although it is a little disconcerting that Boston is way at the easy bottom.
Notice that the six teams with the "easiest" remaining schedule all play the Pistons at least twice, which of course skews the number, and the Detroits are no longer a gimme.
Absolutely.
SOS is a much noisier indicator with load management occurring at random times as well. The more settled the playoff settings become, the more likely it is tougher teams rest contributors.
Obviously, the slate increases in difficulty, but who knows what lineups will look like on any given night.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:20 pm
by Ron Swanson
I think strength of schedule has become largely meaningless in the current era of load management and teams in general just not giving a **** about the regular season. Hell, just a month ago we all thought that Rockets win was a quality victory. Now, they've lost 5 of their last 6 and looks like they're regressing to the lottery team that everyone thought they'd be this season.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:48 pm
by BigO
LittleRooster wrote:Someone more knowledgeable then me, why are these two guys very good adds for us?
Not questioning, just genuinely curious. I see people saying Joeger is good X’s and O’s guy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't know about the one guy but Joerger is known as a very good defensive mind.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 7:08 pm
by WuTang_OG
Joerger can coach. Did a nice job in Memphis and SAC. Rivers is just getting his guys hes comfortable with.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:26 pm
by Prez
paulpressey25 wrote:
Prez wrote:Coaching should be miles better with Joerger in the mix.
Now please get a POA defender so I can fire off some irresponsible takes.
I'm less concerned on a trade at the moment. The coaching situation was the biggest problem. If we're dealing Bobby or Pat (or both), it needs to be a home run deal that doesn't upset the locker-room.
I agree I'm less concerned about it now with an actual NBA-level coaching staff with a smart X's and O's guy in there (Joerger) and a coach who at least will command respect (Doc). But I do still think you can't go into a playoff series against the likes of Boston or Philly with a defensive back court of Dame/Beasley, even if the team is doing more sensible things scheme-wise.
Been saying it but man would 19-20 Wes be perfect for this team right about now.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:33 pm
by tedbrogen
Milbucks96 wrote:I wonder if Vin will survive this round of new coaching staff hires. This is the 4th one he’s been apart of right?
Is Giannis’ improvement in the post this season due to Vin or is that probably from working with Hakeem this past offseason? Guessing the latter.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:45 pm
by tedbrogen
Prez wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
Prez wrote:Coaching should be miles better with Joerger in the mix.
Now please get a POA defender so I can fire off some irresponsible takes.
I'm less concerned on a trade at the moment. The coaching situation was the biggest problem. If we're dealing Bobby or Pat (or both), it needs to be a home run deal that doesn't upset the locker-room.
I agree I'm less concerned about it now with an actual NBA-level coaching staff with a smart X's and O's guy in there (Joerger) and a coach who at least will command respect (Doc). But I do still think you can't go into a playoff series against the likes of Boston or Philly with a defensive back court of Dame/Beasley, even if the team is doing more sensible things scheme-wise.
Been saying it but man would 19-20 Wes be perfect for this team right about now.
They just need one POA defender they can throw out there if the other team is dicing the up. Then sensible offensive/defensive substitutions at the end of the game to have that guy out there in place of Beas or Dame at the end of games when they have timeouts. (And taking Brook off the floor defensively at the end of games when their up three or more and should switch everything to take away open looks from 3) Whether that’s trading for someone or the switch flipping for Dre or Marjon. One guy would make the world of difference if used situationally.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:49 pm
by MickeyDavis
Another game tomorrow and then leave Sunday on a 5 game road trip. Thought this would be announced and presser today but it almost has to be tomorrow but who the hell knows.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:51 pm
by MVP2110
MickeyDavis wrote:Another game tomorrow and then leave Sunday on a 5 game road trip. Thought this would be announced and presser today but it almost has to be tomorrow but who the hell knows.
At this point guessing announcement comes Sunday and Doc takes over monday
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:54 pm
by Shaffty
MickeyDavis wrote:Another game tomorrow and then leave Sunday on a 5 game road trip. Thought this would be announced and presser today but it almost has to be tomorrow but who the hell knows.
They hinted on the Hoop COllective podcast that Docs first game will be Monday
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:57 pm
by WiscoKing13
There's currently a greater than non zero chance this all falls part and Doc isn't the coach. Just seems strange at this point to not announce and rely and a plan.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:04 pm
by Shaffty
WiscoKing13 wrote:There's currently a greater than non zero chance this all falls part and Doc isn't the coach. Just seems strange at this point to not announce and rely and a plan.
not at all just finalizing all the details. The players already know its him
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:07 pm
by Prez
Aight so I listened to the just released Marc Stein/Chris Haynes pod. There wasn't really anything that hasn't already been reported or speculated, but just to summarize what they said so you don't have to spend 30 minutes listening to it lol
From Haynes:
Spoiler:
- Has been hearing the rumblings for weeks, but didn’t take it seriously and didn’t think they’d actually fire him solely because he didn’t think we’d want to pay for 3 different coaches, especially given that it would’ve been a high profile replacement (which it ended up being) - Throughout Griffin’s tenure with the Bucks there was disconnect and he lost the locker room - Despite the record, Bucks org weren’t convinced with the way they were winning and the defense both as a whole and in particular transition D wasn’t inspiring at all - After the In-season tournament, Griffin called a meeting with Giannis, Dame, Khris, and Brook. In the meeting, he challenged (“no holds barred”) the players. Challenged Dame to make the right reads and giving up the ball (?), Giannis to not be overaggressive in transition. He called all 4 out pretty aggressively and let them vent as well, and this went on for a few hours. This did seem to help in the short-term, but ultimately just a bandaid solution - Griffin (unsurprisingly) felt he was doing a good job but just needed more time for everyone to gel - They were looking for an experienced HC and the main guys they were looking at were Doc, JVG, McMillan. Pool of available coaches with real experience was not great, and team is feeling good about Doc and his crew being able to step in, immediately get the respect of the players and get things organized - As far as the “Consultant” role for Doc in helping Griffin, the Bucks did offer it, but Doc wasn’t particularly interested in a consulting role.
From Stein:
Spoiler:
- Stotts would be coaching the team if he was still there, and it would’ve happened earlier - Stotts bailing was a real bad look - Giannis subbing out of the Boston game and being visibly pissed was also a bad look - The Bucks players having to confront Griffin after just game 4 about changing Brook’s defensive role to be closer to last year’s defense was a dent in their confidence in Griffin’s scheme - After the in-season tournament, Bobby challenged the coach - It was an accumulation of red flags and bad moments that lead to Griffin losing the team and getting fired - Bucks will continue to be aggressive to try to get someone (be it Dejounte or someone else), but it’ll be tough - It initially seemed like Giannis was most intrigued with Griffin among the coaching candidates, but it appears that was more of Giannis NOT wanting Nick Nurse. And that was why he championed Griffin. - We could’ve had Nurse if we (including Giannis) wanted Nurse.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:07 pm
by MartyConlonOnTheRun
tedbrogen wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:I wonder if Vin will survive this round of new coaching staff hires. This is the 4th one he’s been apart of right?
Is Giannis’ improvement in the post this season due to Vin or is that probably from working with Hakeem this past offseason? Guessing the latter.
Call me a cynic, but I can't imagine a couple weeks (based on Giannis schedule I doubt it was any longer) with an old legend is really going to transform a guy that 10 years of coaching hasn't yet. I'm guessing he is just unleashing it now with better spacing from Dame and more patience. He showed he could do it previously but rather try to dunk over people. He's starting to get to the age where he recognizes he can do that much longer
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:14 pm
by DingleJerry
tedbrogen wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:I wonder if Vin will survive this round of new coaching staff hires. This is the 4th one he’s been apart of right?
Is Giannis’ improvement in the post this season due to Vin or is that probably from working with Hakeem this past offseason? Guessing the latter.
I'd guess its primarily the increased spacing due to Dame/Beas.
Re: Griffin fired!- Doc Hired - Joerger likely on his way
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:25 pm
by Siefer
Prez wrote: After the In-season tournament, Griffin called a meeting with Giannis, Dame, Khris, and Brook. In the meeting, he challenged (“no holds barred”) the players. Challenged Dame to make the right reads and giving up the ball (?), Giannis to not be overaggressive in transition. He called all 4 out pretty aggressively and let them vent as well, and this went on for a few hours.
This bit jumps out to me. This is clearly coming from Dame and/or Giannis, and I think it's serving to highlight a few things. Communication and trust started to go sideways early, Griffin treated the stars noticeably different than the other guys, and he really didn't seem to have a good feel for the roster. I mean, Giannis is arguably the greatest transition player in history. Dame's one of the greatest offensive engines in history, and his usage is down significantly. We're past red flags on some of this.