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- EPM Wins Added: 12th (Giannis 2nd)
- O-LEBRON: 8th (Giannis 4th)
- 122.1 ON Offensive net-rating
- One of only 7 players averaging at least 25/6 on 60% TS

Still an elite offensive force multiplier despite these "struggles" and people are upset we didn't trade for 2016 Steph Curry.

msiris wrote:

MickeyDavis wrote:

JayMKE wrote:Bucks choose to get older this offseason, there needs to be a new direction it was a mistake

Well Dame is actually younger than Jrue. And moving on from Jrue was the absolute right choice. As for Khris and Brook, we couldn't use their salaries to sign other free agents. Perhaps sign and trades could have happened. Perhaps Houston's interest in Brook was legit, who knows.

You could have moved on from Mids instead.

Maybe, he was coming off an injury plagued season, playing just 33 games. And he needed offseason knee surgery. His sign and trade value would have been minimal.

Siefer wrote:Love Jrue, he's still a good defender, and a great team guy, but he's declined significantly. I think a lot of folks still have a mental image of his 20/21 season when he was near his apex still.

And Mids hasn't declined? Jrues numbers have declined in Boston because his usage has declined as well

msiris wrote:

MickeyDavis wrote:

JayMKE wrote:Bucks choose to get older this offseason, there needs to be a new direction it was a mistake

Well Dame is actually younger than Jrue. And moving on from Jrue was the absolute right choice. As for Khris and Brook, we couldn't use their salaries to sign other free agents. Perhaps sign and trades could have happened. Perhaps Houston's interest in Brook was legit, who knows.

You could have moved on from Mids instead.

Why, Khris is and has always been better than Jrue. Even on one leg he was better.

MickeyDavis wrote:

msiris wrote:

MickeyDavis wrote:Well Dame is actually younger than Jrue. And moving on from Jrue was the absolute right choice. As for Khris and Brook, we couldn't use their salaries to sign other free agents. Perhaps sign and trades could have happened. Perhaps Houston's interest in Brook was legit, who knows.

You could have moved on from Mids instead.

Maybe, he was coming off an injury plagued season, playing just 33 games. And he needed offseason knee surgery. His sign and trade value would have been minimal.

I agree but some of us felt that Mids would not age well.. I personally don't think he wll ever regain what he used to be. He was never really that athletic and injuries have made it worse.

Milbucks96 wrote:

msiris wrote:

MickeyDavis wrote:Well Dame is actually younger than Jrue. And moving on from Jrue was the absolute right choice. As for Khris and Brook, we couldn't use their salaries to sign other free agents. Perhaps sign and trades could have happened. Perhaps Houston's interest in Brook was legit, who knows.

You could have moved on from Mids instead.

Why, Khris is and has always been better than Jrue. Even on one leg he was better.

The last two years of stats don't back that up. Mostly because injuries.

msiris wrote:

Siefer wrote:Love Jrue, he's still a good defender, and a great team guy, but he's declined significantly. I think a lot of folks still have a mental image of his 20/21 season when he was near his apex still.

And Mids hasn't declined? Jrues numbers have declined in Boston because his usage has declined as well

Whataboutism notwithstanding (that's aesthetically pleasing to write), Midds was better than Jrue in 20/21, and he's better than Jrue now. You could argue current Jrue would still fit better (which I'm not convinced of) but then you'd also have to show how that deal would have even gotten done.

Milbucks96 wrote:

msiris wrote:

MickeyDavis wrote:Well Dame is actually younger than Jrue. And moving on from Jrue was the absolute right choice. As for Khris and Brook, we couldn't use their salaries to sign other free agents. Perhaps sign and trades could have happened. Perhaps Houston's interest in Brook was legit, who knows.

You could have moved on from Mids instead.

Why, Khris is and has always been better than Jrue. Even on one leg he was better.

lol no

fansinceforever wrote:

msiris wrote:

WeekapaugGroove wrote:He's Dame f'ing Lillard of course he's going to shoot a bunch of 3s and some will be of the yolo variety. That's who he is as a player. He's also bad defensively, that shouldn't be some shocking development. Now I do think it's fair to criticize some of his bad effort related habits. But again it's not like he's ever been a dude who busts his ass back in transition D.

I was in favor of the trade because I thought they needed a high level end of game scorer in the playoffs. Hopefully he proves me right come playoff time. But I also was saying before Dame was traded that he was a riskier trade target than most people wanted to admit and there were aspects of his game that got ignored a bit in Portland because everyone liked and kind of felt sorry for him.

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So maybe he is overrated because he never won anything?????

Yeah, everybody knows Him and CJ McCollum is a championship core.

Yea this notion that dame never won or isn't a winning player is off. But you know Ringz. His teams consistently overperformed its roster and he made a WCF with a blah roster at best. Had a pretty good team around him when he was young with Aldridge/Wes Batum etc, they all left and everyone thought the team would suck since he was the onl one left. It kept winning.

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.

Their ball screen stuff is still clunky as hell, but at least you could see the effort being put into it last night. They keep doing that for rest of year guys this good will figure it out on O. O won't be the problem. Killer other than him off shooting was he and Giannis had that odd stretch early 4th with the brutal turnovers, seemed out of both trying to hard and trying to force passes instead of just playing.

Effort/care level was there again from folks last night, including guys like Dame/Beaz on D where there has to be improvement. Bad loss, no way around it. But this is the type of bad loss if Griff (now Doc) had early season I'd chalk up to the 'have to get comfortable' that was used for griff. Difference is the games for Griff back then were wtf is going on level stuff so I didn't say that, this type of thing I would have said Yep. Didn't get that vibe last night. Only wtf moments were those brutal turnovers. Other than that things looked organized/composed, effort was there.

Siefer wrote:

msiris wrote:

Siefer wrote:Love Jrue, he's still a good defender, and a great team guy, but he's declined significantly. I think a lot of folks still have a mental image of his 20/21 season when he was near his apex still.

And Mids hasn't declined? Jrues numbers have declined in Boston because his usage has declined as well

Whataboutism notwithstanding (that's aesthetically pleasing to write), Midds was better than Jrue in 20/21, and he's better than Jrue now. You could argue current Jrue would still fit better (which I'm not convinced of) but then you'd also have to show how that deal would have even gotten done.

20/21 was 3 season ago. I said the last 2 seasons. 21/22 and 22/23.

Siefer wrote:Love Jrue, he's still a good defender, and a great team guy, but he's declined significantly. I think a lot of folks have a mental image of his 20/21 season when he was still near his apex.

And even at his apex he couldn't shoot in the playoffs. Right move to move on. Falls off in the playoffs, getting old and is due another massive contract after this year. If he was the same good two way player in playoffs as regular season its a different story, but good D trash O can be had for less than 40 mil per year. And last year he also was awful on D in the playoffs.

DingleJerry wrote:

fansinceforever wrote:

msiris wrote:So maybe he is overrated because he never won anything?????

Yeah, everybody knows Him and CJ McCollum is a championship core.

Yea this notion that dame never won or isn't a winning player is off. But you know Ringz. His teams consistently overperformed its roster and he made a WCF with a blah roster at best. Had a pretty good team around him when he was young with Aldridge/Wes Batum etc, they all left and everyone thought the team would suck since he was the onl one left. It kept winning.

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.

Their ball screen stuff is still clunky as hell, but at least you could see the effort being put into it last night. They keep doing that for rest of year guys this good will figure it out on O. O won't be the problem. Killer other than him off shooting was he and Giannis had that odd stretch early 4th with the brutal turnovers, seemed out of both trying to hard and trying to force passes instead of just playing.

Effort/care level was there again from folks last night, including guys like Dame/Beaz on D where there has to be improvement. Bad loss, no way around it. But this is the type of bad loss if Griff (now Doc) had early season I'd chalk up to the 'have to comfortable' that was used for griff. Difference is the games for Griff back then were wtf is going on level stuff. Didn't get that vibe last night. Only wtf moments were those brutal turnovers. Other than that things looked organized/composed, effort was there.

That is the whole objecive in the NBA is to win rings. Rings or bust baby.

"Right to move on" only works as justification if you move on to better things, we got the fool's gold by getting Dame for less than we expected but he has not been a good fit & this team looks further from contention than it did last year or the year before that. Portlant was "right to move on" from Dame, now we're holding the bag

I don't have any loyalty to the guy because he played in Portland for 10 years, idgaf who cares

soft no D scoring PGs aren't winning players, especially when they need to pound the ball to be effective

DingleJerry wrote:

Siefer wrote:Love Jrue, he's still a good defender, and a great team guy, but he's declined significantly. I think a lot of folks have a mental image of his 20/21 season when he was still near his apex.

And even at his apex he couldn't shoot in the playoffs. Right move to move on. Falls off in the playoffs, getting old and is due another massive contract after this year. If he was the same good two way player in playoffs as regular season its a different story, but good D trash O can be had for less than 40 mil per year. And last year he also was awful on D in the playoffs.

I am not saying its the wrong move but there is a good chance it might not work either.

msiris wrote:

DingleJerry wrote:

fansinceforever wrote:
Yeah, everybody knows Him and CJ McCollum is a championship core.

Yea this notion that dame never won or isn't a winning player is off. But you know Ringz. His teams consistently overperformed its roster and he made a WCF with a blah roster at best. Had a pretty good team around him when he was young with Aldridge/Wes Batum etc, they all left and everyone thought the team would suck since he was the onl one left. It kept winning.

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.

Their ball screen stuff is still clunky as hell, but at least you could see the effort being put into it last night. They keep doing that for rest of year guys this good will figure it out on O. O won't be the problem. Killer other than him off shooting was he and Giannis had that odd stretch early 4th with the brutal turnovers, seemed out of both trying to hard and trying to force passes instead of just playing.

Effort/care level was there again from folks last night, including guys like Dame/Beaz on D where there has to be improvement. Bad loss, no way around it. But this is the type of bad loss if Griff (now Doc) had early season I'd chalk up to the 'have to comfortable' that was used for griff. Difference is the games for Griff back then were wtf is going on level stuff. Didn't get that vibe last night. Only wtf moments were those brutal turnovers. Other than that things looked organized/composed, effort was there.

That is the whole objecive in the NBA is to win rings. Rings or bust baby.

So if Durant shot was a 3 Giannis would not be a winner player, got it. Context doesn't matter, got it. The luandry list of all time greats who didn't ringz aren't winning players.

Dame isn't/wasn't good enough to win it all as the #1 player unless he lucked into a loaded ass team like Curry, that doesn't mean a guy isn't a winning player. He needed to be the #2 to win it all. But its total bs to bash guys who consistently win as the #1 and win playoff series as the #1 as if they aren't winners due to ringz

Let us try to take stock of our situation.

Beas and dame are porous defenders, our starting guards. Both are good shooters but Beas has regressed, I am guessing, coz he has been putting a lot of effort recently on defense. I’m not sure who can start instead of Beasley perhaps Crowder.

Dame is a great offensive player. But his main offensive weapon lies in making 3 point shots. Thus he plays great on offense in one game and poor in another. In other words, he has been having a high variance performance. it seems to me that winning game by large margin, and then losing games more often than before, is less good for us than winning more games by relatively small margins.

Kris is vulnerable to injuries. That is a problem. His defense is less good than before but he is in no way a worse defender than our starting guards. He has been playing very well on offense. He also makes Yannis a better player.

I hope Dame will focus on being less variable and more steady from game to game than looking for Dame Time . I hope we can get a strong point of attack defender via trade. These are the only things that will help us the most. I feel for this season.

Grant made some really tough midrangers in the 4th; Simons makes a contested wrong legged free throw line floater with ~20 seconds left.

I think we sometimes forget that players on the other team get paid big bucks too.

JayMKE wrote:"Right to move on" only works as justification if you move on to better things, we got the fool's gold by getting Dame for less than we expected but he has not been a good fit & this team looks further from contention than it did last year or the year before that. Portlant was "right to move on" from Dame, now we're holding the bag

I don't have any loyalty to the guy because he played in Portland for 10 years, idgaf who cares

soft no D scoring PGs aren't winning players, especially when they need to pound the ball to be effective

The Dame/Giannis challenge and why it's taking so long is because we hired a moronic coach to start. And then the guy brought in to work with those guys, Stotts, bailed because of the moronic coach. Now we have an actual NBA coach who has to figure things out on the fly. After watching Jrue become crap in the playoffs I'd do the Dame trade 100% of the time.

JayMKE wrote:"Right to move on" only works as justification if you move on to better things, we got the fool's gold by getting Dame for less than we expected but he has not been a good fit & this team looks further from contention than it did last year or the year before that. Portlant was "right to move on" from Dame, now we're holding the bag

I don't have any loyalty to the guy because he played in Portland for 10 years, idgaf who cares

soft no D scoring PGs aren't winning players, especially when they need to pound the ball to be effective

Jamal Murray won the championship last season.

StickeeFingaz wrote:Grant made some really tough midrangers in the 4th; Simons makes a contested wrong legged free throw line floater with ~20 seconds left.

I think we sometimes forget that players on the other team get paid big bucks too.

Absolutely! The other team is playing to win, as well. They are not going to roll over.

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