Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas

[CharityStripe34]

I wouldn't put it past Horst (maybe Griffin as well) to be evaluating the team leading toward the deadline and making plans for a reshuffle and/or consolidation trade for one or two defensive-minded players.

[emunney]

Zach Lowe and Doris Burke really shat all over us/Grief in his most recent podcast.

I guess it's the fashionable thing to do right now and I get there's some critiques that have merit but it's hilarious to me how we're getting talked about like we're sub .500 and not a game off the best record in the East.

Haven't had a chance to listen to that Lowe pod yet but imo part of it is that our record, while good, is partly a product of unbelievable clutch play led by two superstars, but is masking deeper structural flaws defensively that are going to get ruthlessly exploited in a playoff series by good teams. This pressuring, overhelping defense wouldn't be as problematic if it actually generated the opponent TOs that it was intended to...instead of having us at 27th in opponent TO rate.

No other team is perfect either but some of the other contenders with similar (Boston, Philly) or worse (Denver, Miami) records at least don't have nearly as glaring flaws from a process standpoint. Boston/Philly are lacking a bit of depth but both have assets to pick up a guy or two midseason to help. Denver/Miami have key guys out injured but are going to be finals threats whenever they're healthy and locked in. Our problems defensively are much deeper than that.

I think it's dramatic to call the defensive failures structural flaws, implying that the team is a house of cards. The fact is that we are 13-5 with huge opportunities for growth. That's not a bad thing. People looking for reasons for optimism shouldn't need to look further than the fact that we're putting lineups on the floor in the 4th quarter that teams flat cannot guard.

[Prez]

I guess it's the fashionable thing to do right now and I get there's some critiques that have merit but it's hilarious to me how we're getting talked about like we're sub .500 and not a game off the best record in the East.

Haven't had a chance to listen to that Lowe pod yet but imo part of it is that our record, while good, is partly a product of unbelievable clutch play led by two superstars, but is masking deeper structural flaws defensively that are going to get ruthlessly exploited in a playoff series by good teams. This pressuring, overhelping defense wouldn't be as problematic if it actually generated the opponent TOs that it was intended to...instead of having us at 27th in opponent TO rate.

No other team is perfect either but some of the other contenders with similar (Boston, Philly) or worse (Denver, Miami) records at least don't have nearly as glaring flaws from a process standpoint. Boston/Philly are lacking a bit of depth but both have assets to pick up a guy or two midseason to help. Denver/Miami have key guys out injured but are going to be finals threats whenever they're healthy and locked in. Our problems defensively are much deeper than that.

I think it's dramatic to call the defensive failures structural flaws, implying that the team is a house of cards. The fact is that we are 13-5 with huge opportunities for growth. That's not a bad thing. People looking for reasons for optimism shouldn't need to look further than the fact that we're putting lineups on the floor in the 4th quarter that teams flat cannot guard.

My wording could've been better, but point trying to make is that we have scheme-related issues that many of the other contenders do not, at least not nearly to the same extent. I agree on the late game stuff and offensive upside, but that’s why the defensive stuff scheme wise is so frustrating - there’s a potential juggernaut here but they're shooting themselves in the foot on one end of the floor. There are huge opportunities for growth but I’d be more optimistic about that if I thought Griffin was the guy to get them there. We'll see I guess, but I'm not sold on him at all.

[SupremeHustle]

Sign me up for any trade that is Bobby/Marjon/Portland 2nd. If ownership really wants to add luxury tax add Pat as well.

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That's my LeBron package.

[crowhead76]

If I were Horst, I would be doing everything I could to turn Bobby and Marjon into Finney-Smith. He makes perfect sense on this roster. I would then do whatever I could to turn Pat into Thybulle or Caruso. May not provide as much offensively during the regular season but would be ideal for playoffs.

Beasley has also continued to improve as a rebounder. I would argue that he is the guard version of Bobby, or a better version of Pat. Can play passable defense, can score in spurts, and rebounds. I know many do not believe Beasley's current numbers are sustainable but those that called him a chucker need to at least acknowledge that his shot selection has been very good this year. He plays within the offense and he has a nice little mid range pull up that he seems to be able to hit every time a basket is needed.

[Ron Swanson]

The only thing that gives me pause with Finney-Smith is that he's really more of a 3/4 and what we really need is a 2/3. Might be a bit of diminishing returns with him and Crowder.

[drdrG]

The only thing that gives me pause with Finney-Smith is that he's really more of a 3/4 and what we really need is a 2/3. Might be a bit of diminishing returns with him and Crowder.

I like Finney-Smith but for Bobby/Marjon/Portland 2nd, I want either a really athletic on ball defender at the 2/3 as you say or a rangy, organizing big with some playmaking chops that can play next to Giannis in small-ball. Finney-Smith is in-between.

[skones]

The only thing that gives me pause with Finney-Smith is that he's really more of a 3/4 and what we really need is a 2/3. Might be a bit of diminishing returns with him and Crowder.

Butler and Tatum, the guys we're worried about are 3/4's. We don't have a long rangy defender on this team right now, and because of that, I don't think he'd be a case of diminishing returns at all. He's more flexible than you think IMO.

Brooklyn had him chasing round Maxey on possessions a week ago. Finished 8/20 from the field.

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[Ron Swanson]

The only thing that gives me pause with Finney-Smith is that he's really more of a 3/4 and what we really need is a 2/3. Might be a bit of diminishing returns with him and Crowder.

Butler and Tatum, the guys we're worried about are 3/4's. We don't have a long rangy defender on this team right now, and because of that, I don't think he'd be a case of diminishing returns at all. He's more flexible than you think IMO.

Brooklyn had him chasing round Maxey on possessions a week ago. Finished 8/20 from the field.

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Good point, he's a capable guard defender. Unfortunately he's having a crazy good shooting year right now and Brooklyn doesn't have much of an incentive to tank or sell off assets. I laughed it off as an overpay when Lowe said in the offseason that the Bucks should explore a Bobby + 2029 1st round pick for DFS trade, but maybe he wasn't too far off. Horst would probably need to work some 3-team trade magic again.

[WeekapaugGroove]

What is Brooklyn's plan? That's not retorical I'm legit curious how they plan to approach the next couple of seasons. They can't just tank because they owe more of their picks to Houston but I would also think they should consider moving some of their vets for additional assets. They've in a interesting spot with a decent roster but hard to see how it significantly improves. I guess maybe they just kind of stay decent and hope they really hit on a mid round pick.

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[Ryan5UW]

The only thing that gives me pause with Finney-Smith is that he's really more of a 3/4 and what we really need is a 2/3. Might be a bit of diminishing returns with him and Crowder.

Butler and Tatum, the guys we're worried about are 3/4's. We don't have a long rangy defender on this team right now, and because of that, I don't think he'd be a case of diminishing returns at all. He's more flexible than you think IMO.

Brooklyn had him chasing round Maxey on possessions a week ago. Finished 8/20 from the field.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Yeah, I think that's one of our biggest holes - someone to guard the Butler/Tatum type guys. Some of the other issues now can hopefully work themselves out as the roster/coaching staff has more time together, but nobody is going to turn into an athletic, high IQ defender. AJJ could get there eventually, but for this season's playoffs we can't count on him being the answer.

[kanyon]

I don't know--Bobby is the heart of this team. I feel like if you're going to trade him, it has to be during the off season--so they team can reform during camp. I think a midseason trade of him leaves a gaping hole in our chest. It would be like getting rid of PJ Tucker midseason instead of adding him during the championship year.

[paulpressey25]

I don't know--Bobby is the heart of this team. I feel like if you're going to trade him, it has to be during the off season--so they team can reform during camp. I think a midseason trade of him leaves a gaping hole in our chest. It would be like getting rid of PJ Tucker midseason instead of adding him during the championship year.

There is no question that it would be a tough deal, and chemistry issues might arise. I'd only move him if:

1) The guy coming back would be viewed by this board as a clear upgrade at a position of need
2) We had a plan to get another athletic big to eat minutes and fouls (and that's not Robin).

[Ron Swanson]

FWIW I have Brooklyn and Sacramento as two teams that would/should value Bobby as a player asset. DFS is obviously the prize, but would I settle for Royce O'Neal, Trendon Watford, and a pick? Maybe...

[paulpressey25]

FWIW I have Brooklyn and Sacramento as two teams that would/should value Bobby as a player asset. DFS is obviously the prize, but would I settle for Royce O'Neal, Trendon Watford, and a pick? Maybe...

DFS makes $13.8mm this year. How do you structure that deal on the salaries?

[ShootingtheJ]

Zach Lowe and Doris Burke really shat all over us/Grief in his most recent podcast.

I guess it's the fashionable thing to do right now and I get there's some critiques that have merit but it's hilarious to me how we're getting talked about like we're sub .500 and not a game off the best record in the East.

Haven't had a chance to listen to that Lowe pod yet but imo part of it is that our record, while good, is partly a product of unbelievable clutch play led by two superstars, but is masking deeper structural flaws defensively that are going to get ruthlessly exploited in a playoff series by good teams. This pressuring, overhelping defense wouldn't be as problematic if it actually generated the opponent TOs that it was intended to...instead of having us at 27th in opponent TO rate.

No other team is perfect either but some of the other contenders with similar (Boston, Philly) or worse (Denver, Miami) records at least don't have nearly as glaring flaws from a process standpoint. Boston/Philly are lacking a bit of depth but both have assets to pick up a guy or two midseason to help. Denver/Miami have key guys out injured but are going to be finals threats whenever they're healthy and locked in. Our problems defensively are much deeper than that.

All those teams share a common flaw. None of them are great in the clutch, nor do they have the players to slow our 2 stars in the clutch.

[JayMKE]

I don't think Bobby fetches a good enough return to justify trading him even if you could get a marginally better fitting player, I agree that trading him could really blow up in our faces given what he means to the team and fanbase.

[ShootingtheJ]

FWIW I have Brooklyn and Sacramento as two teams that would/should value Bobby as a player asset. DFS is obviously the prize, but would I settle for Royce O'Neal, Trendon Watford, and a pick? Maybe...

Royce O'Neal originally built his reputation as a defender, but he's no longer an asset in that area. He's basically just a high percentage low volume shooter now.

[skones]

FWIW I have Brooklyn and Sacramento as two teams that would/should value Bobby as a player asset. DFS is obviously the prize, but would I settle for Royce O'Neal, Trendon Watford, and a pick? Maybe...

DFS makes $13.8mm this year. How do you structure that deal on the salaries?

13.8 is pretty easy to structure with Bobby outgoing at 11.7.

[crowhead76]

So many of you talk in complete circles.

Turning Pat and Bobby contracts into above average defenders, one that can guard 1-4 (Thybulle) and one that can guard 2-5 (DFS) is what this team could really use to win a championship. The Bucks are all in and ownership could care less about how much Pat and Bobby are fan favorites, and for that matter Giannis and Dame both would value a championship over a player because they worked out together or because they played with them before. If this team could have somehow retained Holiday and traded Pat and Portis to acquire Dame, they would have most certainly made that move. They moved possibly their most important player outside Giannis to upgrade the team, what makes people think that they will not do the same now, especially since they have pushed all their chips into the middle.

Give me a closing lineup of Dame / Thybulle / Midds / DFS / Giannis

Also
3PM leaders in catch & shoot:

Lauri Markkanen - 45 (39.5%)
Max Strus - 39 (39%)
Stephen Curry - 39 (56.5%)
Dorian Finney-Smith - 36 (46.2%)
Sam Hauser - 36 (45%)
Jordan Hawkins - 34 (36.6%)
Tim Hardaway Jr. - 33 (37.5%)
Grayson Allen - 32 (50.8%)
Grant Williams - 30 (45.5%)
Jerami Grant - 30 (37%)
Malik Beasley - 30 (45.5%)