That doesn't have to be Redd though

[Sigra]

Do we lotto protect the pick? (top ten)?

If we can top ten protect it, I'm all over this deal.

We get a center who does something elite (blocks shots) and who can rebound at a higher rate while still scoring as much as Bogut.

We get a PG who understands how to play PG. Yet we still keep Mo for sixth-man.

We dump our two worst contracts.

Sign me up.

I see no way Philadelphia does this.

No we don't protect pick. And that's why Phily do that.

[Sigra]

I think it's a pretty bad trade for the Bucks. And I see no reason why the Sixers would even consider it given how they're being forced to add two terrible contracts.

So you think it is terrible for both teams? How can any trade be terrible for both teams? If it is terrible for one team then it is good for other team by defult.

[europa]

-= original quote snipped =-




So you think it is terrible for both teams? How can any trade be terrible for both teams? If it is terrible for one team then it is good for other team by defult.

It's terrible for the Bucks because they don't make a major upgrade in my opinion at either position, they part with a lottery pick and they bring in another bad contract - which is the last thing they should be trying to do given how it's all the bad contracts they have that has resulted in the team being so awful in the first place.

It's a bad trade for the Sixers because they're downgrading at C (in your estimation) and they're bringing in two horrible contracts and not getting good enough value in return for their starting PG and C.

It's a bad trade for both teams in my opinion. Sorry Ilhan.

[paul]

-= original quote snipped =-




So you think it is terrible for both teams? How can any trade be terrible for both teams? If it is terrible for one team then it is good for other team by defult.

How is that in this case? We're adding age, salary, not getting a major upgrade and are giving up our lottery pick.

They are picking up two of the worst contracts in the league. Whilst they get a young center and a pick, they are giving up their center and pg, and are still stuck with the sh***y contracts?

Doesn't sound great for anyone to me.

[Simulack]

Fair enough guys, but I want some of the spotlight here to continue to be focused on Bogut......I do think for this current team at this moment, Dalembert would be a better center and Miller a better PG. But I agree both guys are older and highly compensated.

Dalembert and Milller might be slight upgrades to Bogut/Mo (although I'm not sure about Mo, he's pretty even with Miller so why stunt his development having him come off the bench?) but I don't think two slightly upgrades are going to dramatically fix a team on pace for 31 wins.

Dalembert's shot blocking would really help. I keep mentioning that Bogut's has really tailed off since November... That month he averaged 2.5; he was at 1.5 in December. I wouldn't be too surprised if he leveled off around 1.5 for the season - still a great improvement but not the jaw-dropper it was when he was averaging 2+.

I still hope Bogut can end up being a better player like Dalembert but its sad how low expectations have dropped for him. Not worth adding a slightly better player with a large contract at for Bogut.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that either:

a) Bogut becomes a better player than Dalembert

or

b) We can sign him for less than what Dalembert is getting (maybe unrealistic)

[Sigra]

Miller is HUGE upgrade at PG considering that he is PG and right now we don't have PG at all. Dalembert is upgrade at C because he doesn't complain like Bogut does and knows his role. We would use most of Bogut if he play like Dalembert but he doesn't want to do that. And we get rid of bad contracts. Simmons is bad contract because his production is not on the level of his contract. Same with Gadz. Dalembert is NOT bad contract because his production is on the level of his contract. Same with Miller. After this trade Bucks don't overpay their players and have upgrade at 2 of most important positions. Redd finally get real PG and Redd finally get C who do al little things without complaining. We do give #1 pick but that is price we have to pay if we want to win now. If Bucks want to win now than this is a trade they should make. If not then trade Redd ASAP.

Sixers MAY do this if they didn't watch Bogut enough. They could make same mistake that we made with CV you know. They could think "that is #1 pick and C need more time to develop and he play with selfish guards". If Sixers think that they could view Bogut as upgrade over Dalembert. They want to trade Miller anyway and give time to williams. So for them it could be about trading 2 bad contracts for 2 bad contracts and young C and #1 (unprotected) pick from bad team. Look great for Sixers really.

Sixers wants to get younger and rebuild. That's why it make sense for them to trade 2 older guys (Miller and Dalembert) with huge contracts for 2 young guys (potentional stars) in Bogut and #1 pick + 2 bad contracts. Make perfect sense actually.

If Bucks want to win now then it make sense for them 2 as they would be much better team after this trade.

[paul]

Miller is HUGE upgrade at PG considering that he is PG and right now we don't have PG at all. Dalembert is upgrade at C because he doesn't complain like Bogut does and knows his role. We would use most of Bogut if he play like Dalembert but he doesn't want to do that. And we get rid of bad contracts. Simmons is bad contract because his production is not on the level of his contract. Same with Gadz. Dalembert is NOT bad contract because his production is on the level of his contract. Same with Miller. After this trade Bucks don't overpay their players and have upgrade at 2 of most important positions. Redd finally get real PG and Redd finally get C who do al little things without complaining. We do give #1 pick but that is price we have to pay if we want to win now. If Bucks want to win now than this is a trade they should make. If not then trade Redd ASAP.

Sixers MAY do this if they didn't watch Bogut enough. They could make same mistake that we made with CV you know. They could think "that is #1 pick and C need more time to develop and he play with selfish guards". If Sixers think that they could view Bogut as upgrade over Dalembert. They want to trade Miller anyway and give time to williams. So for them it could be about trading 2 bad contracts for 2 bad contracts and young C and #1 (unprotected) pick from bad team. Look great for Sixers really.

Sixers wants to get younger and rebuild. That's why it make sense for them to trade 2 older guys (Miller and Dalembert) with huge contracts for 2 young guys (potentional stars) in Bogut and #1 pick + 2 bad contracts. Make perfect sense actually.

If Bucks want to win now then it make sense for them 2 as they would be much better team after this trade.

I can't believe someone could contradict themselves so many times in one post. How is it that at the top of your post you say Dalambert is NOT overpaid or a bad contract, and then later you say the sixers might do it because it IS a bad contract?

The bottom bold part is the exact reason the bucks DON'T do this trade, 2 older guys with HUGE contracts for 2 young potential stars (Bogut and #1 pick)?????????? I can't believe i just read all that in the same post.

Dalambert is over paid, i don't think he's better than bogut but if he is it's by a tiny margin, and he's a lot older. You make out like bogut spends his entire time complaining, not trying and basically ignoring anything anyone says to him and pissing everyone off which i think is just flat out untrue. But that's ok, let's not let the truth get in the way of a good exaggeration.

I'll say it again, this trade sucks.

[Simulack]

If Bucks want to win now then it make sense for them 2 as they would be much better team after this trade.

But look at that post Adam started saying the Bucks need to play .580 from here on out just to hit .500. Even if I think Dalembert is a minor step up from Bogut, is that difference and adding Andrew Miller enough to change a .375 team to a .580 team the rest of the season? Winning no only **** us unless it helps us make the playoffs and this trade doesn't do that IMO.

No one answered my other question... although Philly isn't going to take on these contracts, assume they do? Does actually give the Bucks any spendable cap space? Certainly not after this season. Even after that we still have Redd/Dalembert alone making 30 million.

[Newz]

If the pick was lottery protected I would be all over this trade, even if we had to throw in CV.

We save a ton of money when Miller's contract expires... We basically get a center of Bogut's quality for 4 mil more per year but we end up saving all of the rest of the money off Simmons/Gadz contracts.

Not to mention a Miller/Redd backcourt with Mo as the 6th man seems extremely dangerous... If this team could find a decent 3 via the draft next season (Like I said, if the pick was lottery protected and CV was included instead) and sign a quality role player or two off of the bench we could be very good.

[Sigra]

I can't believe someone could contradict themselves so many times in one post. How is it that at the top of your post you say Dalambert is NOT overpaid or a bad contract, and then later you say the sixers might do it because it IS a bad contract?

It is my opinion that he is not overpaid. But Sixers COULD have diferent opinion because they don't want to win now. Get it?

The bottom bold part is the exact reason the bucks DON'T do this trade, 2 older guys with HUGE contracts for 2 young potential stars (Bogut and #1 pick)?????????? I can't believe i just read all that in the same post.

Again, I said that in my opinion Bogut's celling is Dalembert. But Sixers COULD think diferent as they didn't watch him as much as I did. Therefore Sixers COULD think that Bogut has bigger upside but I am 99% sure that he doesn't.

This all trade is posible only if:
1. Bucks want to win now
2. Sixers want to build for future

Only then it make sense for both teams. Now, of course I wouldn't create this trade if I don't think that we win in that trade. But I hope that Sixers overvalue Bogut at least as much as you do paul.

[okanoho]

You want to trade Bogut........

Bogut is the only player who is consistent on this team and has significantly improved his defensive game from last year........

I do not understand some of the posters here, you are always complaining no matter how good somebody plays. You are just never happy. I really think some of you here must be racist towards Bogut, I just dont see any other reason to persue this obsession with him when he is playing great basketball.

FACT: Bogut is playing well this year, and has been the most consistent on the team and is IMPROVING.

Just wait for it, soon some of you will be complaining about Yi and wanting to trade him soon, because thats how it always is on this board. We are always picking on somebody no matter how well they play.

I say no to the trade, I have never liked Dalembert. He is very inconsistent although this year he seemed to string a few good games together. Miller is getting to old as well, so I think the trade is a bad idea.

cant' really trade Yi
he doesn't have much value
but bogut have

[Sigra]

-= original quote snipped =-



But look at that post Adam started saying the Bucks need to play .580 from here on out just to hit .500. Even if I think Dalembert is a minor step up from Bogut, is that difference and adding Andrew Miller enough to change a .375 team to a .580 team the rest of the season? Winning no only **** us unless it helps us make the playoffs and this trade doesn't do that IMO.

We actually have good schedulle in last 2 months with a lot of home games. Also I think that our main problem right now is not lack of talent but how that talent fit together. They are terrible fit with lot of chemistry problems. This trade solve all that problems, improve defense, improve organisation of offense, improve bench. I am almost sure that if we make this trade now we will make play offs considering all of that.

[msiris]

-= original quote snipped =-



Isn't that the very definition of jumping off the bandwagon? It's been well established that sigra changes his mind a lot, one minute he wants bogut traded, the next not, then redd, then mo etc. But i'm getting used to that so that's ok.

No way i do this deal.

I feel that Bogut is not a main cog and never will be. He is fine for now since he is cheap. But will he be worth 10 mil a year? No. But as far as jumping off the bandwagon it pretty normal. Its been three years for Bogut. Some of us feel he is what he is.

[carmelbrownqueen]

As many others I realized that our main problems (talent wise) are backcourt of Mo and Redd (their defense and inteligence) and compactibility/chemistry between Bogut and Redd. Both problems can be solved by trading Redd but it doesn't have to be like that.

I am turning against Bogut these days. Slowly I do. I really don't like his attitude anymore. I don't like his dependence of Sinisa Markovic. I don't like his energy level that is sometimes good but never in long period of time. I almost gave up from his one on one offense and I think that he just doesn't have mental strength and mental quality to be that kind of players. Basicly I see his only value, long term, in his defense and his "offense from movement" or offense in pick and roll game. But even these qualities have question marks as he is terrible defender of pick game (and it looks like he just have some mental problems in that regard) and is not always willing to play pick offense at the other side.

I was watching Sixers game the other night and I saw that Dalembert is actually all that I have hope left for Bogut. He play defense and play offense without ball. Plus he doesn't complain about that and doesn't ask to be something else.

And I was again impressed with PG Miller. I don't care how much times he has been traded. Many great players were traded and some of them few times as well. Miller would be perfect PG for our team. I am sorry but Mo is just not natural PG. Nothing to do with stats really. He just isn't. He doesn't have any concept to recognize what defense give and always does what he thought to do before. He is not inteligent play maker really. Team is not team with him at helm. Mo is perfect 6th man and it is crime that we don't use him in that role.

So my new ideal scenario would be to trade Bogut and bad contracts for Miller and Dalembert. This trade work on trade chacker:

Bogut, 1st round pick, Simmons and Gadz for Miller and Dalembert.

We would get rid of bad contracts, brake Mo/Redd backcourt, replace Bogut with what he can become. But would Sixers do that? They want to trade Miller and make room for Lou Williams and they could think that Bogut has more upside than Dalambert. They also recive bad contracts but we give them 1st round pick for that. If they still don't want to do that then give them CV as well.

Miller, Redd, Mason, Yi, Dalembert (with Mo as 6th man) would have good chemistry, organisation of roles, defense and would be real team.

Thoughts?

I understand your frustration.. I also have concerns regarding Bogut's mental toughness and his ability to keep it altogether throughout a whole season. I guess I don't know that we need to trade him yet, because with his improvements on the defensive end this year he has become more valuable to us. I don't know what he will ultimately become, but for now.. I think he services a purpose for us. I go back and forth with him, but in a number of ways he is defintiely less than what I had hoped for at this point in his career. Hopefully he improves.

[unklchuk]

I'm disappointed too with Bogut, though I still think he'll eventually be a pretty good player on a smarter team than Milwaukee.

I would like to watch Miller try to unify the Bucks. I would like a center who is less erratic and less soft.

I would NOT trust Harris to make this trade (nor would I think he'd want to) but if a new highly-professional GM wanted to do it (based on his understanding of the players involved), before much more losing, I would expect and welcome a better team.

[paul]

-= original quote snipped =-



Again, I said that in my opinion Bogut's celling is Dalembert. But Sixers COULD think diferent as they didn't watch him as much as I did. Therefore Sixers COULD think that Bogut has bigger upside but I am 99% sure that he doesn't.

This all trade is posible only if:
1. Bucks want to win now
2. Sixers want to build for future

Only then it make sense for both teams. Now, of course I wouldn't create this trade if I don't think that we win in that trade. But I hope that Sixers overvalue Bogut at least as much as you do paul.

If you think I overvalue Bogut because i think his ceiling is higher than Dalambert's then that's up to you.

[xTitan]

Bogut is a hell of alot better then Dalembert...but how ironic is it that Bogut gets 12 points in the first half when all of a sudden he becomes an option.....hmmmm whats different in this game I wonder??? Thats up against the great Emeka Okafor, who he seemingly usually has his way against.................you want to know whats wrong with Bogut, the same thing thats wrong with Okafor, they play for bad, selfish teams.

[Mo25]

Bogut is a hell of alot better then Dalembert...but how ironic is it that Bogut gets 12 points in the first half when all of a sudden he becomes an option.....hmmmm whats different in this game I wonder??? Thats up against the great Emeka Okafor, who he seemingly usually has his way against.................you want to know whats wrong with Bogut, the same thing thats wrong with Okafor, they play for bad, selfish teams.

Agreed... Too many people in here hate on Bogut. and MO too.

[Bballer2306]

Bogut is average center! Trade him now!

12 points 9 rebounds 2 assists 2 blocks is not enough! He is average and has no room to grow at the age of 23, Trade him now!

That was sarcasm btw, obviously. So you say Andrew Bogut is inconsistent and it always never trying his best. Actually take some time to look at some real facts, his game log instead of pulling crap outta your ass.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/g ... yerId=2747

Note that Bogut has nearly scored double figures in every game, has rebounded and blocked shots really well throughout the season as this game log shows. He has had some bad games, but Bogut only has bad games when the team has bad games. You will see Bogut had some average games throughout the season because of foul trouble or the team was just playing crap....

Even Larry Harris can see that Bogut is a good player, I dont know why you guys cannot.

[Fort Minor]

I love how people think Mo is just magically going to be fine with coming off the bench all of a sudden.