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As long as were talkin about refs....

This has to be the best quote ever made towards a ref. Made by George Karl in the 94-95 season when coaching Seattle...

What all did Seattle coach George Karl say about referee Ted Bernhardt to earn that $10,000 fine from the league?

"Ted Bernhardt should be shot," Karl said after a two-point loss to Charlotte last week. "He had an attitude against Shawn {Kemp} and he had an attitude against us. It was very obvious and very clear to everybody in the building and to everybody on the court."

Said NBA finemaster Rod Thorn, "Who knows what kind of thoughts that puts in people's minds. When you're talking about somebody getting shot . . . he crossed the line."

Wow. Great work. Not sure what to make of it, but I really appreciate your effort.

SCassell19 wrote:As long as were talkin about refs....

This has to be the best quote ever made towards a ref. Made by George Karl in the 94-95 season when coaching Seattle...

What all did Seattle coach George Karl say about referee Ted Bernhardt to earn that $10,000 fine from the league?

"Ted Bernhardt should be shot," Karl said after a two-point loss to Charlotte last week. "He had an attitude against Shawn {Kemp} and he had an attitude against us. It was very obvious and very clear to everybody in the building and to everybody on the court."

Said NBA finemaster Rod Thorn, "Who knows what kind of thoughts that puts in people's minds. When you're talking about somebody getting shot . . . he crossed the line."

Thats funny. Karl got fined for using a figure of speech. Like he really wanted to shoot him.

Did Bavetta ref any games during the Bucks-Philly playoff series in 00-01 ?

msiris wrote:The numbers are huge. But did not the Bucks pretty much suck during that time frame anyways?

Thats why I also did the sort by winning years only. You would think if someone has a 34% win percentage in losing years (as Bavetta has with a 15-29 record) that it would improve by default (at least a little) when only winning years are looked at. But his record drops to 9-27 in winning years which is only a 25% win percentage. So it drops 9 percentage points. So thats odd because the other refs dont seem to have that problem with their record getting worse in the winning years. Maybe its just by chance...or maybe its because thats when one of the "company men" is doing his job? Dont need the Bucks to sneak into that #1 seed....

nm - didn't see post with second set of statistical data. Already addressed.

SCassell19 wrote:You would think if someone has a 34% win percentage in losing years (as Bavetta has with a 15-29 record) that it would improve by default (at least a little) when only winning years are looked at. But his record drops to 9-27 in winning years which is only a 25% win percentage. So it drops 9 percentage points. So thats odd ....

Yes, it's "odd".

I've never, ever been in the NBA conspiracy camp. These numbers regarding Bavetta, if correct, change my view of things.

There is absolutely no way, statistically, that the Bucks should be 9 - 27 in games worked by a certain ref if they are over .500 overall. No way in the world.

msiris wrote:Did Bavetta ref any games during the Bucks-Philly playoff series in 00-01 ?

Game 4...along with Bernhardt and Dan Crawford.

I think refs do have too much to do with games as it is. Do they get personal in games? I believe they do.

Debit One wrote:Yes, it's "odd".

I've never, ever been in the NBA conspiracy camp. These numbers regarding Bavetta, if correct, change my view of things.

There is absolutely no way, statistically, that the Bucks should be 9 - 27 in games worked by a certain ref if they are over .500 overall. No way in the world.

But the problem is that no matter what the numbers say that doesnt prove a fix. Bucks could be 0-100 with Bavetta with the other team shooting 90 fts and it doesnt prove a fix. Lakers can shoot 27 free throws in the 4th vs Sac and it doesnt prove anything. Its all he said she said. Unless lots more people (besides Donaghy) speak up...or if there is some sort of paper trail or recorded phone call...which i doubt....nothing will be proven.

SCassell19 wrote:

msiris wrote:Did Bavetta ref any games during the Bucks-Philly playoff series in 00-01 ?

Game 4...along with Bernhardt and Dan Crawford.

We where at home that game and had a 2-1 game lead. We lose. Odd part was that they shot 22 FTs to our 11. How often does that happen at home? AI shot 10-32 that night. I could not tell from the box scores if any Ts where called. But I think a couple of fishy things went down that game. And then all these years later a ref says that this series was rigged. Final was 88-83. One game that the refs had an huge outcome on the game.

I was at that game. I want my money back.

rilamann has a video of game 4 posted on youtube where David Stern shakes Mutombo's hand after the game is over. In that same video I believe they called a touch foul on the Sixers with like two seconds left and the Bradley Center just erupted in boos.

Sam Cassell I love you....Wait a minute. Love and Basketball not Love and S..a....oh never mind.

But seriously, Sam "I Am Not," you da' man bro! You da' man!

I dont know who you are and perhaps you are a longtime poster who had to change your name on this switch over like they made me do, but I have been here 3 years and I have never (outside of the TJ Ford injury post by GAD was it? And the workout post in another thread, and a CBA post 2 years ago) read a more comphrehensive and very informative post!

You my friend have jumped into the top ten of my favorite posters in here immediately for this great great job.

This took some time and effort for you to research and compile and I think I can speak for all who read this that you have gone over and above the call of duty for this post.

You have done your homework and you are surely living the RealGM 'High Life!' (Great commercials by the way....The fat guy in them is very 'entertaining.') The clown... heehee. Next Caller!

He cracks me up...but I digress

But I go out of my way to salute you my friend. Excellent investigative piece. I can rant and rave but you have come up with the factual numbers. I am not a big numbers man, and think the phrase, "the numbers don't lie" is sometimes overworked...

But outstanding! Delaney, Bernhardt and Bavetta are certainly a few I suspect as i do Garrestson and Marc Davis and Bill Spooner.

Steve Javie when he first came up was just a 'tool' but he has improved to the point he might be the best along with a few others.

But excellent work! I loved your point of them being 'Company men and old line NBA guys as some like Donaghy were Vegas/Atlantic City guys.

You have done a great service to us who caught it many years ago. From game 7's' in Boston Garden and those atrocities to 2001 and the 'Six-ers fix'...

What has been done in the dark has been brought to the light. This is what makes this board one of the best RealGM has...great job and thanks for your hard work.

Excellent, excellent job on this, man.

I think this could have legs, and there many ways to go with this. How have the Lakers been doing with certain refs, for example.

Thanks for starting something brilliant.

Those Bavetta numbers broken down in the winning season period and the 2000-01 season are pretty damning. Great work.

That needs to get on Fam's blog and a new general board post.

Wow, great job!

I don't want to believe that the NBA fixes games, because I'm from Italy and here we have a recent history of fixed games (and also there AC Milan was robbed and they were also punished, for political matters, that's what I think and what facts says). But these numbers makes you think.

The more everything comes together the worse the NBA is looking here. These are great numbers, thanks for doing this. If Dicky B. is one of the "company men" I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

Great work scassell. Are you a college student? If so, your school may provide access to statistics faculty for an hour long session or something like that. It is customary at most big universities for researchers from other disciplines to run all their work through the statistics department to make sure that conclusions drawn are stastically significant and valid.

Also, you should send an email to the Freakanomics guys at the NYTimes. That is the easiest way to bring this to the attention of the world's brightest economists, who have the horsepower to really do something with this data. They would probably get a kick out of it.

All I have to say is wow. I knew Dick was bad, but this is unacceptable. I would like to see his record in 00-01 for the big market teams.