PG: Memphis Blues

[PG Graveyard]

Also Dame barfing all over himself and getting beat out by Jrue during the Olympics should have been another clue that he couldn’t play championship bball

[paulpressey25]

I’m intrigued by this advanced stats argument that Bobby is Drew Gooden, and tanks most lineups he’s in. Tell me more.

[yannisk]

Last year Dame scored 30+ ppg on great efficiency, he has not forgotten basketball in 6 months. He will play better, hopefully during the playoffs (and not next year for another team).

Having said that there is no way he is a top75 player. Liability on defense and nothing special as play maker

[JayMKE]

week to another game, the board bloodbath has commenced

[Turk Nowitzki]

The true value of this board is knowing that as upset as the Bucks make me sometimes, I'll never be as unhinged as some of you guys. So thanks for that.

[fansinceforever]

Giannis signed a long term contract so the Bucks have leverage to make changes, he would have to force his way out. Im not going to fantasize about whatever bounty of late 1sts you weirdos think we can build the team around, **** that. Shuffle these so called core pieces out for younger guys and let them develop with Giannis, simple as. Murray would be a a Buck if they were made available. Put Giannis on Miami’s scrub squad they probably win a championship. Bucks FO is the problem and they would **** up a rebuild too.

Draft picks seem like a better fantasy than the one that involves our return for Dame, Middleton and Lopez in this dark scenario.

If this group gets bounced early and our guys play the way they have, you're not getting a return of players that can get you back to finals. That's reality. At that point, it's time to start anew.

They can start anew with Giannis, its more than enough. Like I said, I don’t think the basement of g-leaguers + Giannis is much lower than we are now. Get younger, play defense, hit 3s, its not rocket science.

It definitely will not be even remotely that easy to rebuild around Giannis with our current roster and assets.

[msiris]

These post-loss sections are my favorite part of Real GM. The posters who people usually ignore because of how ridiculous the posts are, feel energized.

I also feel energized because it makes me feel better about myself. There's nothing like post-loss threads to build ones ego. Trade Giannis. Giannis is the problem. He refuses to be coached. Bud was great.

There's always a home for bad ideas.

But amidst all these overreactions and bad analysis, there are some really good posts:

1) Brook, especially when Giannis is sitting, needs to post up more, and stop shooting the threes. There is a reason he isn't guarded out there. No Bucks coach has ever told Brook not to shoot so many threes or to use his post up skills.

2) The only two players who came to play last night, and who are earning the level of their salary, are Giannis and BP. Both came to play and both played well. Doc was right that the rest of them looked uninterested. PC needs to sit. Beasley needs to stop taking any threes unless they are corner threes or top of the key threes.

I'm guardedly optimistic. The Bucks weren't winning a title with Bud/McCarthy as their coach. The top players had tuned him out for very good reasons, which I have detailed many times. And Jrue was not a great fit because he can't shoot on a team lacking shooters.

Why guardedly optimistic?

1) It all comes down to two players, will Lillard play to his level and will KM be healthy? This is still a game of stars and if they play to their regular level, they have a decent shot.

2) In the playoffs, it's a slower game, teams need shot makers. With a regular Lillard, Bucks have enough to prevail.

3) Obviously the defense has to improve and I'm counting on the 30 coaches the Bucks have to come up with something.

Build ones ego? These guys get alot of money to play a game. I maybe old school but you should give every game your best effort. These guys are still kind of young. Basketball is not rocket science. It's just that certain players don't get it. Like you said all Brook wants to do is sit outside and shoot 3s. Thats all pretty much what everyone wants to do minus Giannis. Too many contested threes. Too many dumb TOs. Two different coaches and it really didn't matter.

[msiris]

Draft picks seem like a better fantasy than the one that involves our return for Dame, Middleton and Lopez in this dark scenario.

If this group gets bounced early and our guys play the way they have, you're not getting a return of players that can get you back to finals. That's reality. At that point, it's time to start anew.

They can start anew with Giannis, its more than enough. Like I said, I don’t think the basement of g-leaguers + Giannis is much lower than we are now. Get younger, play defense, hit 3s, its not rocket science.

It definitely will not be even remotely that easy to rebuild around Giannis with our current roster and assets.

You have to try. What is the point of spinning your wheels going nowhere.

[yannisk]

Bobby Portis vs Jabari Parker vs Michael Beasley

[fansinceforever]

I mean, we're all aware that our bench is the issue and our starting lineup is awesome for the most part.

You still need to play 8/9 and get something from your bench to compete in playoffs. Especially when your starters are comprised of three 33+ year olds. One of which can't stay healthy.

This isn't some easily correctable issue.

[JayMKE]

Draft picks seem like a better fantasy than the one that involves our return for Dame, Middleton and Lopez in this dark scenario.

If this group gets bounced early and our guys play the way they have, you're not getting a return of players that can get you back to finals. That's reality. At that point, it's time to start anew.

They can start anew with Giannis, its more than enough. Like I said, I don’t think the basement of g-leaguers + Giannis is much lower than we are now. Get younger, play defense, hit 3s, its not rocket science.

It definitely will not be even remotely that easy to rebuild around Giannis with our current roster and assets.

How? The Bucks aren't that close right now IMO and I think Giannis raises the ceiling on any roster, a 1st or 2nd round out with Giannis could be with anybody. If we can have that while being younger, more flexible financially, recommitted to defense with additional assets I think we'd be in a good shape for a quick turn around. There was a reason I hard on to get Murray, I don't think its impossible and its 100% worth trying. If Miami can make it to the finals with their roster & Jimmy Butler, its just a matter of getting basketball people with a eye for talent and development. We'll have a few 1st round picks to be able to move on draft day next year, they could get more by shedding the core outside Giannis and find others guys to put around him. It would be worth it to take a step back to take a step forward with a younger core.

[msiris]

I’m intrigued by this advanced stats argument that Bobby is Drew Gooden, and tanks most lineups he’s in. Tell me more.

Bobby is tweener. Not a defender. Easy to score over.Easy to push around. Very good rebounder and scorer on a very good contract. Hasn't been very good in the playoffs

[Ron Swanson]

I think a lot of people could excuse Bobby's defensive short-comings if he was actually giving you some additive value on offense, but that's the rub this season especially. He's shooting 76% at the rim (dunker's spot FTW) and 42% from the corners, yet the crazy volume of post-up possessions are absolutely killing the offense.

He can be effective in certain spots, but without any self-awareness or someone screaming in his ear to stop camping in the high post when Giannis and/or Brook are on the floor with him, you're getting the absolute worst version of Bobby right now and it's been a trainwreck on both sides of the ball. If the coaching staff isn't gonna get him to change, then he needs to start collecting DNP's. Gallo taking all of his minutes is probably the "lowest-hanging fruit" to improve the team now that we've fixed the defense enough, as crazy as that sounds.

[Karsenmitsche]

Hope some suck franchises will overpay for Giannis, Damn, Khash, and Lopez in the offseason.

It's time to start completely over.


Preferably franshises with a ton of picks, looking for that "last piece" or just to make the playoffs. Giannis has checked out. He has regressed as a player and has regressed mentally. Trade in the offseason.

It's crossed my mind as well. If we flame out in the first round I'll be open to it. Otherwise, when Giannis retires we're looking at another bleak 20 years.

We have zero first round picks until 2030. We’re not starting over lol

[LUKE23]

I am as annoyed with Dame's play as anyone, but I still believe it is a mental issue and not physical decline. Not that that helps anything unless it gets solved, just that it theoretically is solvable. Really, he's the only one that can fix it.

The bench is a major problem. I feel like Portis and Pat are both worse, and then our other options appear to be Jae, Beverly, Gallinari, three guys 33+. The only way we are winning in the playoffs is if Dame wakes up and Middleton stays healthy. Both of those happening seems.......well, you know.

In terms of looking back, if you told me the options were Grief/Rivers, I definitely keep Bud (I like many wanted Nurse). But I still make the Dame trade even today. Our ceiling was locked in with Jrue. I still believe this team's ceiling is higher than last years, it's just going to take a lot going right.

[fansinceforever]

They can start anew with Giannis, its more than enough. Like I said, I don’t think the basement of g-leaguers + Giannis is much lower than we are now. Get younger, play defense, hit 3s, its not rocket science.

It definitely will not be even remotely that easy to rebuild around Giannis with our current roster and assets.

How? The Bucks aren't that close right now IMO and I think Giannis raises the ceiling on any roster, a 1st or 2nd round out with Giannis could be with anybody. If we can have that while being younger, more flexible financially, recommitted to defense with additional assets I think we'd be in a good shape for a quick turn around. There was a reason I hard on to get Murray, I don't think its impossible and its 100% worth trying. If Miami can make it to the finals with their roster & Jimmy Butler, its just a matter of getting basketball people with a eye for talent and development. We'll have a few 1st round picks to be able to move on draft day next year, they could get more by shedding the core outside Giannis and find others guys to put around him. It would be worth it to take a step back to take a step forward with a younger core.

Anybody? No. Giannis is amazing but he still needs talent around him. I know we're down on our guys right now but many are above replacement level.

Huh? Who's giving us first round picks or quality two-way young players for our aging, expensive talent in this scenario?

Miami has some of the best coaching, scouting and player development in the league. We're not them. It's the biggest reason we're in this position to begin with.

[Karsenmitsche]

Everything started going downhill when Khris got injured. That's the price we paid for a chip. When you think about it, it's a ridiculous amount of games you're required to play and I feel going all the way took a real toll on Khris.

Yup, his legs were absolutely cooked in the olympics. Short off-season, and an unfortunate slip might have sealed our fate as a contender

[Siefer]

I think a lot of people could excuse Bobby's defensive short-comings if he was actually giving you some additive value on offense, but that's the rub this season especially. He's shooting 76% at the rim (dunker's spot FTW) and 42% from the corners, yet the crazy volume of post-up possessions are absolutely killing the offense.

He can be effective in certain spots, but without any self-awareness or someone screaming in his ear to stop camping in the high post when Giannis and/or Brook are on the floor with him, you're getting the absolute worst version of Bobby right now and it's been a trainwreck on both sides of the ball. If the coaching staff isn't gonna get him to change, then he needs to start collecting DNP's. Gallo taking all of his minutes is probably the "lowest-hanging fruit" to improve the team now that we've fixed the defense enough, as crazy as that sounds.

Bobby has been driving me nuts all year, but I think calling for Bobby to get DNPs (at least during the regular season) is a bit too much. Partially because we just don't have enough behind him to make it work, partially because I just think Bobby can figure it out, and partially because so many of his minutes come with PC, who might be the biggest drag on the team relative to minutes played.

I think you're right on the substance, that his high post touches are some of the worst offense we have, and there's a reason we didn't see as much of it under Bud. Bobby is a guy that flourishes when he's put in the right positions, but he's clearly fallen in love with junky post offense, and he's not facing repercussions for playing so small on D. It feels like 2 rebounds are just taken out of his hands a game this year.

PC getting parked, and Crowder going back to the bench (although I'd be happy to see him parked) might do some work for perceptions of other guys in their orbit.

[nagawicka]

Also Dame barfing all over himself and getting beat out by Jrue during the Olympics should have been another clue that he couldn’t play championship bball

Going to the Olympics was a giant neon-flashing vegas-level CLUE we weren't winning second title. They all got ot out of their system and now we have this.

[JayMKE]

It definitely will not be even remotely that easy to rebuild around Giannis with our current roster and assets.

How? The Bucks aren't that close right now IMO and I think Giannis raises the ceiling on any roster, a 1st or 2nd round out with Giannis could be with anybody. If we can have that while being younger, more flexible financially, recommitted to defense with additional assets I think we'd be in a good shape for a quick turn around. There was a reason I hard on to get Murray, I don't think its impossible and its 100% worth trying. If Miami can make it to the finals with their roster & Jimmy Butler, its just a matter of getting basketball people with a eye for talent and development. We'll have a few 1st round picks to be able to move on draft day next year, they could get more by shedding the core outside Giannis and find others guys to put around him. It would be worth it to take a step back to take a step forward with a younger core.

Anybody? No. Giannis is amazing but he still needs talent around him. I know we're down on our guys right now but many are above replacement level.

Huh? Who's giving us first round picks or quality two-way young players for our aging, expensive talent in this scenario?

Miami has some of the best coaching, scouting and player development in the league. We're not them. It's the biggest reason we're in this position to begin with.

Championship maybe but a 1st or 2nd round exit? Even with just Giannis there is no way the Bucks would be worse than the 8th seed. Miami is the 8th seed rn and the Bucks would play Indy if the playoffs started today, the fact is this team isn’t that good so shuffling players isn’t a big loss. Take the hit for a little while and start developing some young players, we’d be easily better off than we would if we wait for Dame’s decline to continue year 2/3/4. Giannis is only 29, more than enough time to rebuild a solid team around him. Just takes juevos.